Fall Dividing:You Find the Eyes

yes, this is a good thread. I think I am going to post pictures of what I dug up yesterday. I usually just store the whole thing. So I am supposed to remove all the little tubers? and wrap them?

Susan
=^..^=

Bernie; Here's a photo of Ripples, similar to Rip City. Oh, and while it doesn't always taste good the tongue works pretty good on those little dark eyes.

So is that a yes that you all would mind my pics and requests for help, or no you wouldn't mind??? Don't want to step on any toes;)

Send pcs Fairy1004, If nothing else we can all research and learn together.

P.S. I am still not sure if I need to dry the cut ends before storing the tubers or just stick in the pine shavings?

Dust with sulfur.

Hi everybody! I just came in from digging dahlias, and found the eyes much more pronounced that I usually see in fall, and some even growing an inch or more in length. I was kinda concerned this may be an issue just going into winter store, but the pics above look very like mine. I came in and straight to this forum to get input on them, and was relieved to see this thread (and the attached pics).

Pooch, is that typically how developed eyes on your tubers are at this time of year? I'm assuming the ones that have grown enough to have baby leaves will dry up, is that ok?

CountryGardens, that crimson and white striped and splotched is gorgeous!

eweed, beautiful bounty!...and making my mouth water!

Oh, and another question, is it beneficial to divide tubers now as opposed to spring?

Thanks,
Neal

Still at work but with a free spell
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/696597/
Bernie: there's the thread from Steve D that might give you some ideas and answers.
Fairy, sure; send photos the closer and clearer the better, then everyone can help decide how/where/if to divide.

Rustyswoman, I dry ends and skins before storing. Antifungal dust or dip is an option, but a wise one in my book.

Gemini-sage yes on the eyes: these are pretty typical of what I find whether the plants werecut off a week prior or a day earlier. Your little shoots will either dry up or break off and will re-emerge next spring or when you wake them.

OK-I will take pics tomorrow and post:)

Thanks Poochella

Thanks, Poochella, that is a relief. Late summer and fall have been terribly dry here, and we got a nice, soaking rain last week. I wondered if the drought followed by cool weather and some moisture had thrown off their cycle. After being so dry, I was concerned that I'd find pathetic, little tubers, but most look quite plump and healthy!

Ok, now on the fall dividing, I've only ever done that in spring. I'm curious if I should go ahead and do it,and if there are benefits to doing it now. I had been under the impression that keeping them in tact gave them a better chance of not over drying, but now I'm thinking that may not be the case.

I haven't had a frost yet - close, but not quite. While I'm loving the 50's & 60's temps we've been having, I want to get things cleaned up out there and the callas, cannas & dahlias moved to Mom's basement for the winter.

Also - I'm going to have to disconnect & store my hoses soon. I live in a condo & come November we have to disconnect the hoses & wrap the bibs.

Nancy

Great job on the tutorial, Pooch.

Dividing clumps in the Autumn is a space issue for me. tuber cocoons take up less room than a clump. This year I will try to store some in a tote of peat moss also, as I have bribed my way into a root cellar. Year one: you tempt them with bouquets, Year Two: tempt with tubers/plants.

I found that most of my tubers turned into limp noodles after being brought inside! Weird- I wonder what happened?
Anyway, I wrapped what seemed OK-only about 20. I'm not at all upset- except now- I HAVE TO BUY NEW TUBERS!!! Oh, nooooo....;0)
Gee, maybe I'll ask Santa for another gift certificate to Swan Island. It's great to be able to splurge on one of their pricey tubers.

(P.S.: Buying new tubers is more fun than locating eyes on the old ones!)

grannym.- LOL "tuber cocoons"! That's what they are.

So those that are divided in fall will store just as well as those that haven't?

Yes gemini_sage. I always divide mine in the fall and they are plump and sprouty in the spring.

Thanks, dahlianut! Judging from your zone, I'm guessing your tubers remain in storage at least as long as mine do (probably longer)- and its good to know the divided tubers have enough stored carbs to keep them going. Now I'm thinking fall dividing may help ensuring at least one of each variety makes it through winter- or increase the odds at least.

Eye or not?

One more photo of it.

Not sure if that a new shoot or a shoot cut off. If it a new shoot, that would be an eye right? But if it from where a stem was cute, no , right? Boy that sounds confusing. LOL

I thought I read that the spot where a shoot was will give rise to a new shoot. Please, someone come and tell me if I'm right or wrong.

pirl, that's how I understood it when Poochella answered my question about the long shoots on mine:

"Gemini-sage yes on the eyes: these are pretty typical of what I find whether the plants werecut off a week prior or a day earlier. Your little shoots will either dry up or break off and will re-emerge next spring or when you wake them."

Hurray! Thanks, GS, for the perfect answer.

Yes, Pirl, that looks like a broken off shoot and should produce for you next spring. But, is it too late to mark that tuber and see if we are right or wrong?

I've had clumps I cut down and dug immediately that already had new shoots over an inch long. Just broke them off and treated those as eyed tubers.

Definitely not too late since it's Sea Oro and the only one with a circle around the eye possibility.

I really do appreciate all of your help.

Ooooh, I hope it's an eye: I only had one Sea Oro this year and it was slow; finally bloomed in late September (bet the mother tuber rotted in our cold spring.) I think I might have actually cut a small version of her today in what might be the last flower cut of the year with a big wind storm moving in.

Propagation by Cuttings:
A running essay by Tom Cleere
Page 1
I have found cuttings provide an inexpensive method to increase the number of plants in the garden and to supply high quality blooms for the exhibitor. Most tubers are capable of creating between 3 and 10 new plants each Spring. Often the cuttings are be shared with friends new to dahlia culture. Last year we sold over 150 cuttings to members of the Mid Island Dahlia Society.

For my own garden of 120 plants last year approximately 45% were cuttings and the remainder were tubers. However my show results reflected 70% of ribbon winners originated from cuttings. I realize 1 year may not be predictive of future results, but I shall monitor the 1999 garden to see if the trend continues. I will photograph and update the process in anticipation of a May planting date for my area (Long Island, NY). New information will be added to these pages approximately every two weeks, reflecting the current stage of activity necessary to produce cuttings.

Material needed now: Aluminum pans or seed trays.

Pro Mix or vermiculite. At the beginning of February I remove the tubers from storage. I fill either deep aluminum pans or plastic seed starting flats about 2" deep with Pro Mix, a product sold in 3.8 cubit foot bags usually in nurseries. The medium resembles a combination of peat moss, vermiculite, and seed starter. I've also used 2/3 vermiculite with 1/3 peat moss, with pretty much the same result. As long as the medium has the ability to stay damp (not wet), I have not noticed much difference in choices.

Examine the tuber to see if any eyes are recognizable. If so place on top of dampened mix so the eye or potential eyes are facing up. Press the tuber down into the medium until ½ buried.

Make sure each tuber is readily identifiable with a name tag or written on the tuber with indelible ink.


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Propagation by Cuttings:
A running essay by Tom Cleere
Page 2
I place the trays wherever space exists in the house. Behind chairs, in spare room, etc.. Sunlight is not important at this stage, warmth is.

I check the trays every 4 - 5 days and refresh the medium with water if necessary to avoid it drying out. That's about it for now. Find an easy chair and relax. The fun starts in about 3 weeks.

The photograph on the right shows growth from tubers in the tray. When the new shoots are about six inches high, I begin to take cuttings.

As shown in the photo on the right, I use a razor blade to cut the shoot leaving approximately 1/16" growth on the tuber.


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Propagation by Cuttings:
A running essay by Tom Cleere
Page 3
Rooting Hormone
This step is optional. Other people are successful at taking and growing cuttings without using a rooting hormnone. I dip the shoot in a rooting hormone powder and gently tap the cutting to remove any excess. The hormone should cover the bottom inch or so of the cutting.


I then poke several drainage holes in the bottom of a styrofoam cup and fill the cup 1/2 full with damp Pro Mix or the same mixture used in the sprouting trays. If the planting medium is too wet, the cuttings will rot. Sand can also be used.

I will explain later why I only fill the cup 1/2 full.


The plant has two sets of leaves at this time and I always remove the bottom set before planting. Use a finger to create a hole in which the cutting will be placed. Making the hole before inserting the cutting makes it possible to plant the cutting without removing the hormone. I place the cutting in the hole and push the soil around the cutting.

At this time I label the cup with the variety name, form, color, classification code and date. Doing so makes it easy to transfer the information to tags when planting. It usually takes one month for the cutting to develop a root system.

I then place a plastic bag over the planting and the cup. This keeps the humidity high around the plant and also keeps the moisture in the soil mix. I do not water until plants take root in about one month.

The cups are then placed under flourescent shop lights in my basement where the temperature is 55 - 60 degrees. These conditions help the cutting to develop a strong root system.


I transfer the cuttings to may basement. Seven flourescent shop lights hang on two clothes closet rods. The rods are suspended from the ceiling so I can adjust the height if necessary. I also use the system to overwinter tender outdoor plants. The lights are plugged inot one electrical surge protector purchased from a local hardware store. The surge protector is plugged into a timer and the timer into an outlet. I have the lights on 18 hours per day.



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Propagation by Cuttings:
A running essay by Tom Cleere
Page 4
By stacking plastic bread trays, I can place the cuttings approximately 8 inches below the lights. I usually lay strips of aluminum foil under the cuttings. The reflection increases the effectiveness of the lighting. the temperature in the basement is about 55 - 60 degrees fahrenheit. After one month I remove the plastic bags and give a gentle tug upward on each of the cuttings.


If I feel resistance I know the roots have formed. If not rooted, the bag is replaced and another check is made in two weeks. I have realized a 95 percent success rate using this method. The cuttings now can be transferred to a greenhouse, cold frame, or simply placed outdoors when the temperature permits. Like any tender young plant they should be hardened off gradually and protected from the direct sun for a day or two.

A few weeks after taking the first cuttings the tuber usually will generate multiple sprouts as shown in photos. Again, follow the process demonstrated earlier. This is the time you will quickly increase your plant supply. I have 7 plant trays with tubers and each night I take 4 - 6 cuttings. The 7 trays will probably produce 120 new plants before late April. Since the cuttings take 30 days to root, I cease making new cuttings after the third week in April in anticipation of late May plant date. The tubers in the trays can also be planted as well. As the weather begins to warm, the cuttings will be transferred outdoors.



It is the beginning of May. Here on Long Island, NY we generally don't plant until the end of the month. Since some of the country has a warmer climate I will complete the final portion of the essay now. Before planting I harden off the cuttings in a polyhouse, usually over a 2-3 week period. See photo. This transition phase eliminates the shock of going from a warm propagating climate to the cool soil.


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Propagation by Cuttings:
A running essay by Tom Cleere
Page 5
The roots have formed in the bottom of the cups. See adjacent photo. I carefully tear away the bottom one third of the cup, making every effort to disturb the roots as little as possible.

Now the cutting is planted in the soil. I leave the top inch or so of the cup above the soil line as shown in the photo on the right. This creates a barrier against cut worms and slugs. This is why I only filled the bottom one third of the cup with planting mix intitially. Make sure all the roots are below the cup or you will create a "pot root" effect on your tubers. Since the identification of each plant is on the cup it can easily be copied to the stake label. Later in the season when the plant is well established I remove the cups.

Since taking the first cutting February 20th, the 9 trays of tubers produced 295 cuttings in 51 days. So far only 3 cuttings failed to take root. This is quite an effective way to dramatically increase the number of plants you grow in an inexpensive manner. I donate the cuttings to the Mid Island Dahlia Society to be sold to the membership. It also permits me to give plants to friends and family so they too can enjoy the beauty of the dahlia. As for me, now I can relax on the deck and wait for the blooms to begin. The MIDS will be hosting the National Show in 2001. Please attend if possible.
Tom Cleere, President, Mid Island Dahlia Society.


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Annie this was a very good display of what I said earlier was a good way take cuttings. For some reason the pics would not come through. Maybe I should have sent it to my pictures and then tried to post here, The thing can be found on google it is. called Cuttings By Cleere .

This message was edited Nov 7, 2008 12:56 PM