Any corn snobs here? Types of sweet corn.

Was reading another thread where the virtues of "Silver Queen" were being pushed. While it is a beautiful sweet corn that gets large and is fairly reliable, it is not the best out there. Here in western PA most of the road side sellers that talk to me will admit to selling "Silver King" but calling it "Silver Queen".

Most people that know me know that I am a corn snob. I don't bother to plant or eat sub-standard kinds of corn. If you are planting corn in your own backyard, you can do much better than Silver King or Silver Queen. Most farmer market people tell me that most of their customers don't care what kind of corn they get except for yellow, white or butter 'n sugar. If we ask for the better kinds, we might get them to grow some of them.

Is there any interest in starting a dialog regarding the different kinds of sweet corn, such as normal sweet corn, open pollinated, homozygous enhanced sweet corn, heterozygous enhanced sweet corn, supersweet sweet corn, tablesweet sweet corn, triplesweet sweet corn, etc.? These are all technical terms that we gardeners should learn so that the time and effort we make to grow our corn results in the best!

What do you think?

Don't know: Judging by entries, comments and photos in Plantfiles there does not seem to be much interest in corn. That said different folks like different tastes in corn. My personal preference is Se types. Don't like the taste and texture of the Supersweets at all. No problems with the synergistics, but find no advantage over the Se's. Most Su's don't have quite as much sweetness as I like. OP's are ok if you get them at peak and processed immediately. Problem with yield, short harvest window, and extremely short shelf life ( About 20 minutes before the sugars start to break down into starches.) I still have not found any white that will beat Silver Queen as a late corn, Silver King as a midseason, or Silver Princess as an early. Silver Knight is as good as any extra early, but none of them have the flavor of later maturing cultivars. Best bi-color to date is Sugar Dots. Yellows are not very popular here, so I have been slack in planting in that area. Kandy Korn probably the best that I have grown. Ruby Queen is a very good red sweetcorn. Worst tasting sweetcorn I ever planted Polar V.

Farmerdill,

Do you distinguish/care between the homo- and hetero-zygous se's? You seem to be agreeing with me regarding how people regard corn. Most don't seem to care much.

I'm a fan of the supersweets myself, with ranking Indian Summer pretty high. It's a multi-color fairly late supersweet that gets large.

They stagger plant Silver King here to have it available for most of the summer. I have also run into some roadsides that are now planing genetically engineered se corns that are corn worm free.

No, the standard in the research universities seems to be Su, Se, SH2, and synergistic. I don't know whether the use of two identical allelles at one locus or two different alleles at one locus makes any difference in the final product or not. I'll leave that to the DNA experts.

I do a simultaneous early planting of Silver Knight, Silver Princess, Silver King, Silver Queen. Since they mature about 10 days apart, that gives me a continuous harvest for about 6 weeks. In seperate fields, I trial a couple of new cultivars each year, sometimes as many as 6. Always some bicolors and the latest whites. If a new yellow has come on the market I might try, but don't spend too time with yellows anymore.

Silver Queen is not suited for many areas of the north, but does great in the south. Taste and appearance , few if any can distinguished it from Silver King. Silver Princess has the taste but is a smaller ear. The yellow version, Golden Queen I have grown, but did not get excited. Back in the 70's I use to create my own version of Bi-Queen by planting it in alternate rows with Silver Queen.

I have been raising homozygous se+ mostly for many years. I like it very well and ear a lot of it...8 plantings.

I remember Kandy Korn as the first of the new types and raised it for a while, but it grew very tall and blew down a lot near maturity.

As a kid we had op Golden Bantam and white Country Gentleman and Stowell's Evergreen. I ate some white but always liked the yellow much better as it had more flavor. Nowadays I like bi-color and yellow.

I tried a TSW and hated the taste so I am leary of the latest types. I might try something like Montauk bi-color synergistic to see if I am missing anything. I tried the super sweets about 1970 and it was kinda chewy [don't like that] but it wasn't too bad but the family didn't like it.


This message was edited Dec 2, 2008 1:06 PM

Beautiful garden and beautiful trees. Not much trees on my property, other than the ones that I planted the last few years.

Whenever I read a corn thread where people know what they are talking about, I always feel like I'm sitting in a science class.

Can anyone point to a resource that can explain to a newbie the ins and outs of corn, especially the various abbreviations that I see applied to the different varieties?

Thanks
BB

BB, briefly:

OP ..the old open pollinated corn

SU... the standard hybrid sweet corn for many years...rush it to the boiling pot

Heterozygous sugary enhanced.....about 25% se...like the early everlasting heritage series..........like Kandy Korn

Homozygous...... the slightly later to be introduced full-100% homozygous se+ [sugar enhanced] series.....like Ambrosia

Homozygous shrunken 2......these have 100% super sweet kernels

Heterozygous shrunken 2 .....these are a newer type with 25% sh2 and 75 % se......example - Mantouk..... also called synergistic
Triple Sweet synergistics....a trade name for the previous type

Some varieties have attributes like TSW ....table sweet factor

And it gets more complicated yearly as BT genes are being added...like Attribute insect corn...BC0808 variety and others.


Two new desighations are: seQ and shQ.
seQ has 100% se kernels with 25% ALSO containing sh supersweet kernels.
shQ has 100% supersweet kernels and ALSO 100% se kernels







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This message was edited Dec 2, 2008 9:27 PM

This message was edited Dec 6, 2008 1:20 PM

One thing about corn peddlers in this part of the country, they are all liars.
One guy sells "Candy Corn". Sometimes it's yellow, sometimes it's bi-color.
Lots sell "Peaches & Cream". Another guy sells "Sugar E". Admits he plants 5 or 6 varieties, not all Sugar E.
The biggest corn seller around here sells whatever is ready on that day. Only sign they have out is the farm name on their truck. Best one to buy from, too. They have been at it since early 1900, so might know what they are doing. They sell a pickup load at each of their locations every day. They have 3 or 4 spots just in Mankato. Also go to other towns every day as well. Their corn is most of the time very good.

I used to grow "Radiance". It was a "SU" & super good. I still have people coming by the market looking for it. To much of a problem raising corn on our small acreage.

Bernie

Thanks Indy:

I am going to print this out as a reference.

Just as a reference point: What category does Silver Queen fall into?

BB

It's an older su hybrid........white. White is popular in the south...bi-color in the north...yellow and bi-color here.

Just to expand (somewhat simplified)

heterozygous implies the seed parent and pollen parent genes (for sweetness) are different, so you do not always get the maximum effect

homozygous means the seed parent and pollen parent genes (for sweetness) are the same (doubled)

The sweetness graph:

Less sweetness More sweetness
OP/SU-----------se ---------se+ ---------sh2---------sh2+

You would think that it would be possible to graph a flavor chart of varieties, but corn being so dependent on environment to develop full flavor and differing tastes make this task a lot harder.

Growers in the area have been using the BT corns. I have seen the results and tasted the corn. It really does work to keep the worms off/away.

A couple of interesting corns to try:

1) Ruby Queen, an se with red kernels and good flavor, but tends to be a poor pollinator, so you need to plant another se (extra sweet) to help the pollination

2) Indian Summer, an sh2 corn (supersweet) that has various colored kernels. It is a large corn that develops full color of the kernels near the end of the picking/holding time. This one might be my favorite corn, but I hate to commit.

Some years back, I purchased some corn at a roadside stand that had an unusual color and excellent flavor. The seller could not tell me the name, but it was a medium sized ear that was an unusual orange color - neither red nor yellow. Anybody know what this one might be?

What are your favorite corns (if you grow your own, as roadside sellers seldom will tell you the real story (like CG says above)?

Now if we could just get the supermarkets and roadsides to use the proper labels and sweetness indicators, we might get a chance to buy the best!

krowten, are the BT corn varieties available to the public? If so,where can you buy them? Thanks,
Mike

Sorry, don't know where they buy the seed. For me, I'm not sure I want to go that route. I don't mind dealing with a few worms. In any case, the worms here don't seem to much bother the early corns, nor my small backyard plot. They have trouble finding them, I guess.

Your best bet to find the BT's would likely be to check out the seed suppliers that target the farmers. I'm sure there are people here that could suggest some names.

I'd be interested in knowing about a good pollinating corn, for small gardens.

Sygenta markets some under the Rogers Attribute trademark. I have not seen these offered to home gardeners. http://www.rogersadvantage.com/products/corn.asp Growers have to sign an agreement stipulating conditions under which this is grown and controlled.

A few years ago you needed to be planting at least 40 acres.

Siegers and Rupp sell BT corn. I don't want any as earworm damage is small and late here. Corn root worm beetles can be horrid here in corn country later in the season.

I like Ambrosia bi-color se+ very well. I also like Incredible yellow se+ very well too.
I have trialed several other corns and have found Seneca Dancer very good but it is a late maturer. I don't care for extra early varieties at all.
I have some Montauk ...75% se+ and 25% sh2 to trial. This is called synergistic.

If I was a fan of super sweets, I would want to trial the Mirai 002 corn, but I'm not..... Ruby didn't turn me on either as I just like delicious corn and not fancy colors. I hate crunchy and chewy corn. LOL

I like corn with small grains, lots of rows, and very tender kernels.

Bb. Here alink to Rupp.
http://www.ruppseeds.com/divGrain/default.htm

you can request a catalog too. The catalog ha sjust abotu any vegetable you can think of and then some.

Siegers offers several of the Syngenta/Rogers numbered attribute series. Rupp has a large array of Bt field corn but not Bt sweet corn.

This message was edited Dec 3, 2008 6:18 PM

The Rupp site doesn't get you to sweet corn

I can't find my catalog from them for this year. Thought I had put it in this one cabnet whree I usually put all my catalogs. Lots in the catalog not on the site.

Wonder if ya couldn't contact the extenstion office adn ask them ho aroudn ya growing bt corn and ask them for some seed, if yoru not growing out mountains of it , alot of farmers will share.

farmer,

Rupp list 7 varieties of sweet corn with Atribute insect protection on pages 19 & 20 of the 2008 catalog. It requires a signed Stewardship Agreement to buy that corn....I have no interest in it myself.

The link below is correct but is not working. You can type the URL in and it likely would work.

http://www.ruppseeds.com/

I copied this from my post in beginner garndeners. I actually meant to put this here. Some who are participating in both forums, like farmerdill, may have already seen this question. I was thinking that if I could wipe out one generation of earworms that then I would have a fighting chance.

I logged onto Rupp's web-site and read some about their attribute insect protection. I do not have a problem with their requirements of destroying the spent stalks. The agreement form ask for a dealer name and a farm operation name. I do not have one as I just give what I grow to my friends. Would they sale to me if I met their minimal order requirements? Thanks,
Mike

"Would they sale to me if I met their minimal order requirements? "

I don't know but I doubt it. This corn is genetically engineered . True, it is a rather smart and likely fairly good trait, but eco people are not impressed so they are pretty cautious with this kind of product.
So they have to exercise some control.
Siegers sent me a commercial seed catalog that I did not request. It also has Attribute corns and the stewardship agreement also. On the dealer line it already has written: Siegers. So that is through hoop No. 1 Still they inquire about acreage and farm name!!

Excel : Syngenta /Rogers does have dealers listed in your area, at least fairly close.

Champion Seed - McAllen
Gowan Seed - Edinburg
DeWitt Seed- Norman Oklahoma.
http://www.rogersadvantage.com/dealers/default_southwest.htm

Our all time favorite (so far!) is 'Honey Select', an All America Winner. http://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopExt/4DMG/Whats/Amerslct/honeysel.htm I love the sweetness plus that wonderful flavor that white corn just doesn't seem to have.

We don't grow our own (DH rarely puts his foot down but drew the line at corn, saying "We are not a farm."), but we get it from a local farmer -- it's become his favorite also.

Got the new Park seed catalog the other day and looking through it see they have MIRIAI hybrid corn white or yellow or bicolor and a mini yellow Saya it supposed to be more tender, succulent, and super sweet than any previous variety . Th epics sure do look appetizing.

Has anyone tried "Shasta"?

As I was eating chinese food last night, I wondered why I had never grown or even thought of baby corn. Is baby corn just that, baby corn? Im thinking maybe its a special typed all unto itself??

While any corn can be used, Those who grow baby corn for market use a multi-eared type of field corn. http://www.evergreenseeds.com/babycorn.html http://hort-devel-nwrec.hort.oregonstate.edu/babycorn.html

thanks you so much, going to try some in an EB just for something different. I love those little ears with snow peas and watr chesnuts. Ill have to stick to buying the wc.

I tried growing a baby corn variety from a reputable seed supplier a few years ago and was disappointed with the results. I only received 1 ear per stalk and the limited productivity was not worth the space taken by the plants. Like farmerdill indicated, the variety was supposed to produce multiple ears, but did not for me. I'm sure that there are better kinds out there than the one I grew, but the name escapes me. I decided to buy it by the can!

I have grown Serndipity and it was fantastic! Last year a friend grew Bodacious and it was also so good that I just bought 2 lbs of seed for this year.

I want to try growing corn this year. I have picked out a nice area, fairly sandy with good drainage. I will supplement with compost, and the location is away from my regular garden. FYI 'Sonoita' is Native American for 'grows corn well' or something of the sort.
Years ago my father and I would go to the western slope of the Rockies in August and get a corn called "Olathe" We ate nothing but corn until it was gone, about 2 weeks! Anyone hear of Olathe?
Any suggestions for a newbie corn grower?

for zone 3b(Mt) we plant sweet corn, hybrid bodacious(SE), 75 days maturity....for our short growing season

I'm near the boarder of Mexico zone 8a, and have a nice long growing season. Where can I find non-commercial seeds? Other than Burbee, Ferry-Morison etc...or just use them?

www.rareseeds.com

I think alot of us get seeds from Baker Creek. This year I got some of that mini corn for stir frys. I figure its worth a shot.

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