I have a big bunch of these that I need to divide. They will grow in an ordinary garden if kept moist, or by a pond or lake or even right in the water. I think I have about 6 trades. I would like some dependable rebloomers but will trade for postage.
Those look like I. pseudorus and if they are they are considered invasive in most states. Can not or should not be traded/sold/given away.
In Oregon they have done a number to the waterways and are illegal to buy/sell/trade.
You might want to check this out.
D
Sounds like yellow flag iris... hardy as can be! There are many people who actively seek those out for problem areas in their yard, and in the right place they can be lovely. But, I definitely agree with D that these should not be sent someplace where they would find their way into the open environment. They have to be monitored well or they will take over before you know it... and they definitely should not be introduced into open waterways. I don't think, though, that it means you should not trade them in places where it is legal. Water hyacinth and some other water plants are outlawed for introduction into public waterways in many places because of their invasiveness... but they still have a lovely place in private, backyard water gardens. Ev
This message was edited Aug 29, 2008 7:50 PM
I've got to agree with Dee. I don't think they should be traded.
Some people grow them responsibly. I do, and I know Dee does, being sure to deadhead, so that absolutely no seeds are thrown, but if someone just one year, that lived near a waterway forgot to deadhead, or was incapacitated and couldn't, it could be a real problem.
I would not trade them.
I also grow them, polly. I read on another thread earlier about someone who had them along a dried creek bed and enjoyed them. I was suggesting woodspirit allow others who seek them to have them only after warning them of the precautions that must be taken to grow them responsibly.
well, yes they are yellow flags. I got them originally out of a small abandoned pond down the road from me. I live in the mountains and the stream running through the pond is small. I am not aware of them spreading and I would be because there is another larger pond below that doesn't have any.
I also have water hyacinths here but we are so much higher in altitude than where they are invasive and so much colder that they die back each winter so I have to buy new ones in the spring.
Having said all that, I am now afraid to trade them. I will read more and see if our cooler climate will prevent their spread, but right now, I am withdrawing the trade.
Thank you all so much for your comments and I especially thank you for caring for the enviroment. I hope you all vote for the candidate most likely to care about the enviroment too. (Can't mention names here or I will be in big trouble).
LOL, yes, mentioning the political names would definitely start a lively debate... as I'm fairly certain there are varied opinions about the sincerity level on both sides of the aisle!
I would like to have some for another homestead in the country having a
cess pool drainage system but, after the cautions above, I googled 'iris
pseudacorus' and found it is invasive although Illinois does not list it as
such but there was a notation on a site concerning Texas that the USDA
was seeking information about locations of this species. Most states do
not list a plant as invasive until it has caused big time trouble. You can
thank the forum members for being alert to this type of problem.
I pseudacorus is a European species & now illegal to plant in MA. Even if yours seem under control please deadhead them in the spring to avoid spreading seeds. they do float .if the pond at a lower altitude doesn't have them, it would help to keep it clear.
The seeds can stay dormant for years which is something I had not known until I helped the ag dept clean out one of the many waterways around here that have almost been totally sealed because of the plants not being taken care of. The head of the group who has a PHD was telling us about the seeds.
They are on WA, OR invasive list I know.
My ag inspector knows I have it, knows I do not sell/trade it and knows that I do deadhead right after bloom.
I do not mean to sound like I am lecturing it is just that if you could see it around many waterways here, you would understand even better.
I know many people that have in private gardens but the ones I know deadhead...
They will be listing as of 1-2009 Buddlei Davidii as invasive and restricted here as well, seeds too well.
D
One of these years I will remember to get a photo of these guys when they are in bloom in the city canal and post it here on the forum. A pretty sight but as they continue to spread across and downstream in the canal, they will have to be removed eventually and guess who gets to pay for it. Yes, we the city taxpayers!
Ev, I agree with you, they have a place in a backyard garden, where somone will be responsible. But I would not trade them to someone. They might say they would be responsible, but will they actually remember to deadhead every single flower, and who might they trade them to.
Woodspirit, I think you are doing the right thing by withdrawing this offer.
This message was edited Aug 31, 2008 10:10 AM
OK, now see the picture on your trading thread with the seed pod. I don't want to embarrass the person that posted the picture, but that's what we're talking about. Maybe you could enlighten them, Woodspirit.
This is not necessarily relevant to the discussion but it is important to be
aware of issues concerning swapping plants with people in other areas.
Most states frown upon shipping or transporting live plants from uncertified
sources. Soil attached to iris rhizomes can contain bacteria, insect eggs
and numerous other organisms which are controllable in the native state
but can run amok in a different environment. An innocent traveler brought
some firewood from Michigan, I believe, to a state park campground in
Illinois. The wood was contaminated with the emerald ash borer and now
tens of millions of ash trees in Illinois will be destroyed.
Invasive plants are especially bad since they are very difficult to eradicate
once they establish a foothold.
Hats off to anyone willing to keep abreast of issues such as this and are
concerned enough to pass the info along to others.
Well, I am digging them up and throwing them on a bonfire. As for regular iris, after I dig them and wash them, I rinse them in a solution with clorox and then rinse them in clean water again. I also pick off all soil, weeks, anything that is not part of the iris.
Of course, our little trades probably are likely to threaten the iris world when you think of all the iris nurseries that ship them.
Y'all quit worrying now. dee, you did not come across as nagging and now all of us who have read this thread are better informed, partly because of you. thanks.
Thank you, as I said I have seen the big time damage to our water ways here and you should see up near Mt St Helens in WA and I was told they had cleaned it out several times in the past it has almost closed several waterways.
I also have a loosestrife but after the bloom before seed is set it is cut down to the ground.
I thought with all the things with twisted filbert or Harry Lauderstick (sp) that I was going to have to remove mine but it has tested clean and I do not wish to trade or sell.
What surprised me the most was the fact that the Butterfly bush (davidii only) is going on the invasive list. It has NEVER even set seed here....
thank you woods for caring about our waterways too:)
We all need to become more involved in our planet and keeping it safe.
I never knew about how long it takes the grocery story bags to decompose....if they do. No wonder many countries are outlawing them totally.
D
I spent some time when i lived on the coast, puttering around in a small runabout, searching out birds tangled in fishing line and six-pak plastic rings. Some were tangled up so badly and so weak that we had no trouble cutting them loose. We even had a special food solution that we fed them with a turkey baster to give them some strength until they could fish again.
In some cases the plastic had cut into their flesh so badly that they had infections. The worst one I saw was a black-headed gull whose head was actually pinned back against his wing from his frantic struggling with huge wad of fishing line. The only way that much line could have gotten on that gull was when a fisherman changed his line and threw all his old line overboard.
We actually took the gull down to the t.v. station and had them film him, to warn people about the handling of their fishing line. He was dead, of course.
Good for you woodspirit1 & thank you for being careful with your plants & work with the birds we all need to enjoy ourselves with caution.
One I have done for years and years now. If we get anything with the plastic rings like pop or beer I cut them so there is no way a bird can get caught and get hurt. I saw one and it killed me and I thought how awful for a person to do something so stupid, but you know until then I had thrown them away whole too...
Super Woods that you have helped...I used to help when we lived closer to the ocean, now when I take my walks along the river beds, I take a big trash bag and sterile gloves and do clean up...it amazes me what people take and leave there. BAD!
D
It amazes me that there are still supposedly well-educated organized, groups of people; (universities, politicians, "green" companies) that accept and approve the release of hundeds/thousands of latex balloons for advertisments or at celebrations like graduations and rallys.
I know and no one thinks a thing about it....if swallowed by the animals or birds can do alot of damage, even death.
D
NYrain, your comment is EXACTLY the type of thing that prompted my comment further up about the sincerity of political candidates. The mile high final celebration certainly didn't seem too environmentally responsible to me!
I'm embarressed. I hadn't thought about the balloons.
Actions always speak more loudly than words. Don't criticize THE OTHER
candidate for public office. Chew out your own--it will have more meaning.
It took a lot of concerned ordinary citizens to publicize the dangers of lead
shot in common shotgun ammunition. Millions of waterfowl were being
contaminated with lead from eating lead shot off the ground and other lead
contamination of the environment. Now, lead shot is banned in most publicly
owned waterfowl habitats. Other nontoxic metals were found to be just as
effective. California, I believe, has banned lead weights and lures used in
fishing.
Children being damaged by leaded paint is a story everyone is familiar with
and will be with us for generations.
This is only one of thousands of environmental issues confronting us every
day. Don't worry about someone disagreeing with you. Fight the good fight!
I have never understood how enviromental stewardship could become a political issue. Everyone needs clean air and water.
In both Russia and China, there is no concern for the enviroment. The amount of pollution is so bad that the cancer rate has tripled. China used to have lots of those beautiful arching bridges over their rivers. Now no water runs under most of those bridges. Think how many things in the enviroment that has to affect.
It is not necessarily political. Being a D or an R doesn't seem to make a
lot of difference. It's the C that counts. C being C-A-S-H to pay the
crooked so and so's. Any polluter can do anything they please as long
as they pay up front. Only the citizens with the big V can make a difference.
It's interesting to learn that Buddleia is invasive in other parts of the country. For me it's never survived more than one winter! Buddleia smells like old-fashioned iris to me.
This message was edited Sep 2, 2008 4:29 PM
Irisloverdee is not joking--butterfly bush (buddleja davidii) is on Oregon's
invasive species list. So is Iris pseudacorus.
Google invasive species (state) no parenthesis and you can see the entire
list for that state. May be enlightening.
I have a pink butterfly bush that is supposed to be hardy to -20F. Cut it
to the ground last year and now it is nearly 10 ft tall tied to an old copper
plated ground rod. Butterflies, hummingbirds and huge bumble bees love it.
I had no idea butterfly bush was considered invasive, but I have two in my yard that came in as volunteers. That doesn't count one I killed trying to transplant it. Lots of people in the neighborhood have butterfly bush. It grows easily here.
Another bush that is very popular with xeriscapers is caryopteris. I am constantly pulling it out of my yard. I have one that was planted on purpose and my neighbors have one. My yard would be nothing else if I didn't pull up all the seedlings. I wonder what it does in wetter climates?
I've been following this thread almost from the beginning and have to laugh. When I joined DG I listed I. pseudacorus in my Have List a little nervously, because I was worried everyone would want them. They are quite a treat to find here and I personally have never seen over a three foot wide patch. Here there are four small patches that appear to stay the same year after year. I've given many away to delighted local people who baby and prod them - and are as far from invasive as they can get. Ironic because I'm constantly separating other types of Iris that have multiplied.
On the flip side, the plant I have traded the most is creeping jenny, which grows like mad, and people here either love or hate for that reason.
There have been some gorgeous zone two or three plants offered here that I have been afraid to get because I don't want them to think they are in the tropics and go wild. Also I have a bamboo that instead of being trouble in terms of spreading, dies back to the ground each year, so is kept in check by our winters.
Personally, I would not exclude something from trade unless it is universally invasive (like Japanese Knotweed or Wild Rose for example) Even the worst are not found on all lists. Like anything there is so much "official" information if you Google. It's too hard if not impossible to decide for someone else in an area I am unfamiliar with. Many times I have mentally calculated the value of annoying plants that plague me after reading their price tag at a nursery or in a catalog.
$ for every one I rip out.........? That would be nice.
I do know I would NEVER give out Bishops's Weed, even if it were the last pocket on earth - I'd just move!
Did a quick check of Invasive species New Mexico and did not see the
butterfly bush. Remember, there are species on the USDA list which
are common to all states then each state has it's own list according to
it's unique habitat of native species. Some of the google lists haven't
been updated for 4 or 5 years so it is best to check with your own DA
or DNR.
NYrainshine,
You are not 'seeing' the pseudacorus being invasive due to your climate. They will not re seed much in Z4. And giving them away to the locals----how do you know who they give them away to? Maybe relatives downstate?
Take a drive along the thruway in spring, and see how they have invaded the water at Montezuma wildlife preserve, along with purple loosetrife.
Iris pseudacorus is poisonous to grazing animals, due to it's content of glycosides. It forms dense stands, elevating the topography causing wetlands to dry up.
It invades by seeds, but more so by rhizomes that break loose and travel downstream. This could happen in your area, also. Just because you don't see any seeding doesn't mean they can't invade waterways where you live.
I don't mean to be harsh with you, but saying you would not want to exclude something like pseudacorus from trade seems irresponsible to me. You trade it to one person in Franklin Springs, they trade it to ten people in downstate NY, Someone trades it to someone who lives by a wildlife preserve. Animals die.
There are so many sterile cultivars of pseudacorus, why not just get one and propagate it to trade? Some of the pseudacorus X Japanese irises are so beautiful, and sterile. They don't cost that much to get a plant, and they are so much more enviromentaly safe.
Please do the responsible thing, as woodspirit has done, and not trade pseudacorus.
Not to continue beating a dead horse but I. Pseudacorus is listed as invasive
on New York's list. Item #57 of 130. Not only invasive to the aquatic
environment but poisonous to grazing animals. No listing of penalties for
cultivation, sale or exchange.
I have had some butterfly bushes come up as volunteers but they are not a big problem. The one that is really invasive here is lamb's ears. They are lovely, but they are spreading all over my vacant lot and I have never planted a single one. They migrated from the home of the neigbor with the butterfly bush. They are pretty and the bees love them, but I worry a little about how far they will spread.
Invasive is by state, each state has the climate or soil or something that can cause a plant that might not be invasive in one area to be highly invasive in another.
As Polly said there are now sTERILE psuerd x that are lovely...
It is just I have seen personally the damage that little beauty has caused in CA, OR and WA and now I am told that parts of Canada has problems as well...
Do not mean to sound harsh..but if it can be invasive in waterways and kill cattle. I would think that it is not a good plant.
Kouza started as a wonderful plant for CA and came here now along with wild scotch broom we are paying millions in taxes to try to kill it off.
D
I am certainly familiar with the destruction invasive species can cause. Everyone knows the story of kudzu in the South. Another species that is a big problem there is water hyacinth. Here in New Mexico, they put them in fish ponds, but treat them as annuals because they freeze. In the South, they clog waterways and have to be dredged out. And these were brought to the US as an ornamental at the Chicago Worlds' Fair. They are lovely, but they are a constant problem in Southern waterways.
Dee,
Is Kouza ( dogwood) invasive? I had never heard that.
Lamb's ear is not invasive in NM or, I hope, IL. My wife loves it and plants
it with Dusty Miller for the gray silvery look. Quite nice. Sold in garden stores
and mail order.
Just because a species is listed as invasive in a state does not mean it is bad.
It is the effect on local native species that makes it invasive sometimes. Case
in point is trout fish in NM. Seems they like to lunch upon local aquatic animals.
Kentucky spotted bass can hybridize with smallmouth bass. Both are prized by
fishermen. Even though they are not invasive, spotted bass can outproduce the
smallmouth and the fear is, over time, the smallmouth will lose out to the spots.
Oldgardenrose, I don't believe lamb's ear is invasive here in Illinois, but it does increase well. It makes a good groundcover in the right place. It also adds a nice texture to a perennial bed. It is indeed a fixture in nurseries here. My former next-door neighbors moved away without taking their Virginia Creeper with them -- now that's been a real problem! Watch out for False Dragonhead -- after 4 years I'm still pulling it out -- and they have the nerve to call it "obedient plant"!
Patjar
sorry it is Kudzu also in CA
Pretty little plant but oh boy watch out.
Not all plants that are invasive in one state is invasive in another, but since I have seen with my own eyes what many plants to do anymore, before I trade, sell, give away I check with the states and also tell the people NOT to trade, sell, or give away to a person in a state where it is known to be invasive. I tend now to be on the side of caustion.
D
