New Goat Owner 101 Questions

I will use this thread to ask each question as I come to it instead of starting a new one each time. This is going to be an ongoing learning endeavor for me and thankgoodness there are my Dave buddies out there to walk this path with me.

My poor girl, who really doesn't have a name yet: The original owner was calling her Courtney.
My first idea was obie 1 conobie (sp) because her breeders name, front letters have to be BNB1
and all I thought of was "BNB1 obie 1cononbie"
Whe had jokingly decided to call her Stella wit da Chedda..
Someone else said name her SOCCS
S-stella
O-obie
C-courtney
C-chedda
S-shhhhhhh no more names

I have been calling her small fry.
Any nice cute name ideas?

My first REAL important question;
They said right now she should be eating 1/2 lb feed.. she is.. and looks for more, and 2 flakes of hay.. she is hardley touching the hay.. I bought the hay from the breeder so I would have what she is use to..
They said is she spills it, chances are she will not eat it. I should change it out everyday, what do I do with the old hay? Is it now "garbage? Can/ Should I use it in the chicken coop?
I don't think she is getting enough roughage, but she will eat quite a bit of cut/dry clover grass (my own hay?) out of the field that I have not cleaned up yet.. she is also eating green lawn... is all that ok for her... can it replace the hay? She doesn't look like she is getting skinny and she is drinking.. should I up her grain a bit until shes doing better or let her get a bit hungry and want to eat?
That should be a good start for question #1..
Question #2.. worming.. get ready...

A lot of people hang their hay to prevent waste (mesh bags or twine). She will just eat the clean and use the rest for a bed so unless she is wallowing in it or ruining good ground/ killing too much grass, I would leave it. Goats eat grass just fine but prefer tree leaves, rose bushes, blackberries and junk. My hubby always gives ours any branches he trims and the darker leaves are good for keeping down worms. Tannic Acid -if it turns red in fall it's probably a decent wormer for a healthy goat.

Worming. TSC has good pelletized stuff to put in feed but don't use it unless you have to. There's visual test (Famacha, I think) where you peek inside the lower eyelid. A healthy goat should have peachy colored lower lids. Less than peachy is less than well -peachy.

Extra feed- we use it to make our goats easy to handle. 1-2 cups (more of course in winter when they're hungry) at the same time every day and they come to be fed and fondled. Makes worm testing and medicating much easier

As long as she's not lethargic and has perfect poo pellets I wouldn't worry.

She looks more like a Patricia to me:0

Fran I strongly recommend you go to http://fiascofarm.com/ and do some heavy duty reading first of all. Then go to http://www.goatwisdom.com/ and do more reading and sign up for their email list where you can post questions right to people who are goat experts. Sometimes they're answers are geared more for the person with 200 goats rather than one or two but you can temper their answers with your own judgement.

As for worming they don't recommend the pellets because you can't control the dose which makes worming a hit or miss affair. Instead what is recommended is that once a month you have a fecal test done on her and depending on what it tells you about what kind of worms and how many (all goats have some worms at any given time) you can then worm her starting with the weakest type of wormer which is called Safeguard paste. You can buy the horse formula but you have to double what they recommend for her weight. Yes you need to calculate her weight unless you buy a hanging goat scale. http://www.caprinesupply.com/ this company is often recommended for goat supplies.
Green grass is okay but you also need to make sure she eats roughage. Mine get lots of raspberries and virginia creeper among other stuff. I would not increase her grain unless she starts to look peaky.
To check her eyes for anemia go to http://goat-link.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=107
for a chart you can compare her lower inner eyelid to. Also make sure you buy a mineral block for goats. My vet told me to avoid anything labelled for goats and sheep. Sheep can't use copper because it is poisonous to them while goats need it in small amounts. Using things that are safe for sheep can lead to a copper deficiency in your goat.

Last PLEASE reconsider having just one goat. She really can become seriously ill if you keep her without another goat. Get a small wether her size to keep her company or if you plan to breed her later (and if you want milk you'll have to) get another doe her age.

MollyD

Oh Fran, she is ADORABLE! I have no knowledge of goats whatsoever, so I can't answer any of your questions, but I just couldn't help but stop in and say what a beautiful goat you have. I love her ears - I just want to reach out and touch them! When I see BNB, it makes me think of bed and breakfast! LOL! I'd probably give her a name like muffin or waffle or cappuccino or something else breakfast-like! LOL! Can you tell I'm hungry?! She definitely doesn't look like a Courtney to me.

What a great new member to your backyard family!
Claire

What a Cutie....I read a lot when *presented* with our first goat...then got a second goat. Now I have 3 total (down from 4). I think the most important thing is to find (through referral) a vet that knows about goats. My regular vet said he did but first one of my goats died - supposedly because he ate a pokeberry(I think it was bloat) then another of my goats got bottleneck two years running. So....I recently found a new vet who says I need to worm them once a month, give the wethers a supplement, and a few other suggestions...the new vet was certain and sure of herself and the goats responded well to her too. So, a good vet is step 1 in my opinion.

I second MollyD's good suggestions. And I'm recently concerned about my goats eating too much rich, damp grass out in the pasture. I thought my big girl, Elizabeth Louise, was getting frothy bloat but the home treatments I gave her did the trick.

Glad you started this thread...I know I'll learn alot from it.

Catherine

Betty Lou, Barney and Fred pictured below (they thought I had food, not a camera, lol)

MollyD is right about the Fiascofarm link. Great idea! Use 'em all the time.
My goats started spitting out their meds and I never knew how much they were getting which is why I started feeding pellets (one at a time for our herd of 18 which is a pain). We also have a "goat vet" used by all the breeders in the area. (I'm not one) Apparently many around here who medicate regularly are having trouble with resistance which is why he told us to only dose if they fail the Famacha test. My bucks are on a pasture that has a lot of vines and brambles and they have not needed worming all summer. All the good stuff died off the does pasture in the drought last year and not much came back so I've had to dose the younger ones a couple times.

Molly -never heard of the loneliness thing? Does it really affect them that way?
We had a goat when we were kids that thought he was a dog and he was an only goat...

Catherine- They warn us here against wild cherry?! Something about eating it when the leaves are turning, but not before. I checked a few sites and didn't really find anything definitive...

grownut yes they can suffer severe depression and stop eating and die from being alone. You were lucky if you were able to give that lone goat enough company that it did alright. That's very rare.

You are right about the Cherry tree btw A live tree is not a problem but dropped leaves or dropped branches go through a chemical change that is poisonous to goats.

MollyD

I knew you would come through with lots of info Molly.. ;-) I had found Fiascofarm and do read everything over and over.. I will have to keep reading and check out the other links you mention.

Molly, I do understand the loneleness problem. I am trying to be very aware and keep my eyes very open. If I can avoid it.. I do not want a second goat at this time. It has nothing to do with "allowed" "monetary" it is a person preference and knowing my own limits and ensuring I can follow through and my learning this animal as well as I can and giving her all I can give her. Learning goat is much tougher than chicken was.


Claire, funny I never thought of the bed & breakfast.. kind of gives a whole new avenue to take.. cappy, jelly, toast girl.. oatmeal, I'm going to have to be thinking now.

Great information so far... now on to our evening walk.

Glad to get confirmation, Molly. We try to supplement our pastures with brambles etc as I said and have been avoiding the Cherry but most stuff like that is good for them and I'm always asking my vet so many other ?s I never got round to the cherry thing.

Great Grandpaw always wormed his animals with a plug of chewing tobacco of all things and as we have tobacco all over here in KY I asked the vet about it. He told me that it has a lot of tannic acid like all those other pestilential plants we've been talking about and that that was why higher forage was so important for goats. Most plants which turn reddish before turning brown in the fall are good this way.

I wish the general info was clearer - Brambles and vines=better parasite control.
We had never had any kind of trouble until that drought last summer. Our curly-eared darlin's got their little snoots way down in the dust and became hosts to all kinds of unwelcome guests.

Viz the pet goat- there were four of us children and we used to butt heads with him constantly. Maybe he wasn't an only goat after all...;)

This message was edited Jul 28, 2008 5:32 PM

LOL I suspect between all you 'kids' he wasn't truly alone!

This parasite thing has a few different schools of thought. One group rarely worms, another worms every ten days. One rotates through every type of worm medication throughout the year. I prefer the let's do it when needed and at the lowest level of chemical needed till proven otherwise. I suspect the tolerance level that has been building in herds these last few years is because of overdoing the medication (like humans and antibiotics).

The info out there is so off at times. When we started looking into goats we were told black walnuts would poison them. That was a worry cause we're in a black walnut forest but when the goats got here they went straight to the walnuts and would do all kinds of maneuvers to reach the leaves! Believing that they know what to eat and what to avoid we didn't stop them. They've never gotten ill from eating them! Now it could be that in other parts of the country what is called a black walnut is a different subspecies and is toxic. Ours is not.

MollyD

Same here with the medicating. To my mind we over medicate ourselves our children our land and our critters. But I think that's the wrong hobbyhorse for this forum:)

Frans- None of us mentioned Probios and Pepto-Bismol! If your little darlin' ever upsets her tum or is off her feed it is good to have the digestive enzyme paste. It can be given once daily if needed (the usual standard is needed if they have diarrhea which they get after a good pig-out). I had a goatling who ate anything and everything like the one in the old cartoons, stuff everyone else knew better than try! Gave it to him 5 days running, 5ml per serving. The pepto was suggested by the vet on the third day to help wash out any indigestables that weren't gone by then.

Get her a pal...it doesn't have to be another goat necessarily...a cow will do, or a horse or sheep...but goats are herd animals and get seriously lonely by themselves. Molly isn't "kidding" (no pun intended) when she tells you they can die by themselves.
She'll need access to plenty of clean fresh water...so clean YOU would drink it.
Goats HATE being wet. Make sure she has shelter that will keeps her dry
She'll need shade.
Grass cannot replace hay. Grass doesn't hurt them..they'll eat a lot of it...but they still need hay. They will also benefit from tree clippings EXCEPT maple (it's toxic for them-small amounts they can probably handle, but I wouldn't push it much)
and make sure you keep them on a "complete" feed meant for goats. You can use an all stock feed, but you'll have to make sure your goat has a mineral block.
MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT OVERFEED GRAIN! I CANNOT stress that enough. It's hard to resist them when they are begging for grain, but you will kill her if you give her more than her ration...so get tough. Also, if you have chickens or other livestock, make sure THEIR feed is locked up where she can't get to it (medicated chicken feed is poisonous to them). Goats are wily, and they are problem solvers. Tenacious problem solvers at that. If there is a weak spot in your fence, she'll find it. If there is a way for a goat to get at the other's feed...she'll find it too.
Throw a couple cinder blocks in her yard for her to climb on...it will help keep her hooves filed down.
Go out an buy yourself a book on goat care so you have something for immediate reference and ENJOY her. They are terrific and SOOOO much more fun than sheep!

Fran - you have chickens, right? Will they be good company for the goat?

OH how I miss my goats...I think Little Bit:)

Have fun and there are several excellent books on raising goats.

My goats and I had 10 at one time, the only thing that I ever had was worms and I used the Safer paste...they loved the taste and kept them worm free for the most part.

One buck and the rest either wethers or does...

Oh how I loved them and still do, I see a goat and gonna love it if possible with permission of course.

Enjoy and love them

If you get them used to coming for food as another poster stated they are easier to medicate and etc and you get all the lovin:)

D

Oh, Little Bit is a cute name!

I had a lil bit in mine. she was so little for a boer goat. What Heidilly said, they say that chicken feed is poison to goats, so is tomato and potato plants, but someone forgot to tell my goats that. Yes over eating grain will hurt them. There should be free run of hay for them at all times even in the summer.

L2G2, I just had a huge DUH! moment here. I knew they aren't supposed to eat tomato plants...but never heard that about potatoes ( I have mine planted along the goat fence!). I'm smacking my head here because I knew potatoes and tomatoes are from the same family (nightshade)! I'll bet pepper and eggplant plants are no good for them either. Now they'll HAVE to stay out of my garden!

We're hoping to add a few Boer goats and a few sheep next year ... haven't decided on a breed of sheep yet but my neighbors have Norfolk.

Kelly in Moxee

I had typed out a nice long email this morning and I'll be darned if I didn't get kicked offline just as I clicked send.. So of course I lost it all and it has taken me all day to gather my gusto to rewrite. :-)

I really want to start this with a "what I learn and how it used it today".
Thanks to daves and a list of things I might need for my goat first aid kit.. I was reading and got to a med called blu-kote.. I read about it online and thought.. hmm that sound good for the labs ears.. he is allergic to something outside.. and to be honest, I am afraid it is grass... YUK.. he really gets inflamed when we mow.. I usually bring him in the house.. but there is grass around for days.. I mean I mow 4 acres..
Well, while feed shopping today, I decided to see what was available in the fungi type of med.. and sure enough blu-kote.. when I came home, I cleaned him out, sprayed him.. OMG>>> first time in months.. poor dog is laying quietly and comfortably on the floor.. no pacing, scratching or rubbing.. it was like.. a few minutes of burning.. then like it numbed it.. and now it has been 3 hours and quiet.. Is this stuff that much of a miracle?

ok, that was lesson 1.. next think I learned was the grain for the goat.. I know how much to feed her.. and I have been sticking to it because she is new and I am scared of doing anything wrong.. but I am getting more comfortable and was thinking that maybe I should increase her a bit... So your warning was very well timed and written very well.. and worked as a good warning to me. I will just make sure she gets plenty of hay and walks in the field the grab a bit of clover... I found some nice looking red clover, but it is too close to the road.. but I may go out tomorrow and cut some.

The other, I love the cinder block idea.. a giant nail file.. lol

Loneliness..
While I am still concerned, she has very much bonded with one of my papilons, Cricket, the other Lovie, wants nothing to do with her.. Cricket doesn't want to leave her side, and while walking out in the field tonight, Cricket ran way ahead and "Stella" (the goat) started crying for her... and of course Cricket had to come back for her.

Stella also likes to teeorize U & ME, the fat cornish.. now I am going to have to protect these 2 way oversized.. turkeythings... U is limping pretty bad and I even had to build them stairs to climb into thier coop from their pen do the can get up on the roost.. yes I gave them a little wider roosting pole.. would hate for wither to crack their head by falling forward.

I'm still reading about the worming.. I guess that is the one main worry I have.. there are so many things to learn where that is concerned.

One thing should work in your favor with the worming thing and that is not having had goats. They(parasites) don't usually build up in dangerous quantities until one pasture has been used for a long time. Not that it's not a concern, but rather you should have a good while before it becomes an issue if your new baby is healthy.

This message was edited Aug 1, 2008 4:34 PM

there are natural things out in the woods that is good wormer. I can remember their names. If you are only feeding 1 or 2 and can keep them separate then you can use the grain wormer. They LOVE poison ivy.

Isnt that blue stuff just the best thing. so easy to use also.

I'm sure this has been said before somewhere (don't remember, by myself as well as others) but if you haven't seen it... All good goat people recommend having good high forage and not just low grasses. This is precisely because of what L2G said. They are not only good wormers, but the goats natural diet. The darker leaves which tend to turn red before going brown contain tannic acid which is a natural dewormer. Poison ivy, Kudzu, creeping myrtle, all those pesty things are goat heaven. A plug of chewing tobacco will also work, same reason. Don't know any precise dosage:)

Personally I wouldn't mix the chickens and the goats as the goats can contract coccidiosis from the chicken feces.
Pepto-Bismol was a great way to help when the stool is runny to help keep the goat from dehydrating while you're trying to figure out if it's from worms or just something they ate!

Ah, Kelly! We had sheep for many years! Wait until it rains all over them and you go out to feed them! Just a slight brush from their wool and you are soaked!!
There are alot of things to consider before getting sheep-such as: do you mind a wooly face that needs trimming so they can see? Are you looking for a meat animal? Is there anyone in the area that does shearing or do you want to get a Katahdin Hair Sheep? Polled or not polled!
Here's a picture of our Jack, Corriedale/Texel cross.

This message was edited Aug 1, 2008 3:13 PM

Just a note: We couldn't keep our sheep and goats in the same pasture because the goats would run the sheep ragged! Don't know if anyone else has had the same experience.
Sue☺

I'd kinda thought they needed to stay separate anyway because of the issues sheep have with copper. Though we've probably all heard the stories of keeping a goat among the sheep so the sheep won't get lost.

Our chickens stay in among the goats as much as they can. We've even had young roos sleeping goatback before. I had heard that coccidi would not transfer among species except for close relations like sheep and goats so I never worried that the birds were in there cleaning up after the goats. Never (yet) had trouble in either. Where'd you get that info? (and can I have some?)

Coccidia are suppose to be very species specific--so I don't think they could be spread between goats and chickens--but if they are being kept under the same conditions that favored coccidia they both might be symptomatic at the same time. There is usually some truth when keepers start observing connections between certain environments and diseases. They are the closest to the situation--although they don't always have the resources to determine what the actual connection is. Working in the industry for the last 10 years, I have great respect for dedicated farmers.

I think I'll Google and see what the lit says!

I've been toying with the idea of setting up a pasture rotation for a variety of critters that would foil the coccidia and parasites. It used to be standard practice until we started specialty farming here in this country. Would love to know what you find.

Hi grownut--I went through a lot of lit. and veterinary discussions on coccidia when I had an immunosuppressed puppy (it died:0() Then again with the chicks. The conclusion was always that it is very species specific. They even have ways of discriminating between strains infecting the same species based on where in the intestines the parasites are located.

Here are two sites that address the concern. They seem pretty well-informed and the second has more natural controls as well as medications:

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/coccidiosis06.html

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/coccidiosis.htm

ThankyouThankyouThankyou! Believe it or no I have the fiascofarm page bookmarked but just hadn't been back for a while. Duuuhhh me. I really liked the idea of dosage balls on the holistic page. Should give much better control than what I've been able to achieve with other stuff.

frans??! Been able to ask any good goat questions lately or have we run away with you?:-)

You haven't lost me.. you all just directed me onto new leads... everyday I read something on daves and I feel myself screaming... "A CLUE A CLUE".. lol,,, and no I have no little kids around.. I should not know who or what blues clues is... but I do..

Today I read about legumes.. ok some might ask, why do I want to know about beans.. well today I learned that alfalfa is a legume!! for those of you whom don't know that.. pick up your jaws and go look it up... awesome isn't it??? I was a mazed to find out what was a legume... peanuts...clover.. whoda thunk it... for those of you who knew... you could have told us.

The other thing..
someone mentioned goatdairylibrary.org WOW, now theres a website.. I was lost in there all afternoon.. I almost forgot my chores... but then had extra chores when I went outside and found the chickens had finally after 4 months found their way to the back door and pooped all over the stairs... won't forget them again..

I also learned (after spending $10.) that goats should not eat alfalfa cubes.. they are pressed feed, just like pelleted feed.. and they do not proccess in their tummies...
And another thing.. DAHHHH.. goats have extra tummies...ruminants ; Animals having a stomach with four compartments: the rumen, reticulum, omasum, and abomasum.

So it wasn't that I didn't have questions today, it was more like you all sent me to a place that answered some questions before I asked.

Frans hunny, you have learned alot. Great job. When we first go the goats they were fun We had 12 plus the Buck. Then they grew to about over all 40ish. I read every thing I could find on them and then when it came time for a birth, I was like I am not doing it, look here girley you will do it. She did good and all my fears on that part went away. She had twins boys, Moe and Joe. I even made homemade treats for them, OMG the smell in the house was awful. i just threw in things in there till I came up with a mixture like brownies and baked it, OMG they loved it. Molasses, tobacco, goat pellets, milk, oats and water.

Tia - Patented Goat manna recipe? Sounds um...Yummy?!

it ws just something I threw together and WILL NEVER make again unless it is on the grill. Oh the smell was horrible. While it was cooking.

hmmm, how about in my outdoor electric skillet?

Maybe save that for when the neighbors get too close.

LOL Yea for sure, something else i remembered at 2 am, if you know someone allergic to poison ivy, have them drink fresh not chilled goats milk.

hmm, whys that Tia?

It is said to help build up the immune system. Since the goats eat it, they have a natural immune to poison ivy. Read it somewhere on the net.