Bokashi Part 3

mmm do ya think the repellent would work for fire ants????
bleach water isn't the best thing to use on the dang bites but it is the only thing that stops the itching so far for me. LOL

The first 2 areas I buried bokashi in have been a success. What I planted there 6 weeks later has grown so well, I can hardly believe it. Now I've just buried a 3rd bucket full, and can't wait till it's time to plant the area. I've got lousy soil, so this is a tremendous improvement. I'm no longer limited to a container garden!

What do vinegar and vodka do to improve AEM? This is really interesting. I don't have any vodka, but I do have some rum that I really don't like.:) I've been trying to figure out what to do with it. Never thought of using it to make compost.

Does anyone know where to get a tap for a homemade bokashi bucket? I went to Lowes yesterday and couldn't find one. Maybe I wasn't looking in the right department.

Eric: I would like to put a batch of bokashi in the middle of the "composted manure" area and let the worms mix it all around.

madrid, try this site for spigots http://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=10521

EM5: (From the EM America site)
EM5 is used to deter pests. This is an all-natural concoction that can be made by anyone and is in no way harmful to humans or animals. It combines water, EM•1®, a distilled spirit, molasses, and vinegar. The most successful programs with EM5 involve alternating its applications with Activated EM•1® and EMFPE. EM5 is effective for reducing pest populations because EM5 contains esters formed by mixing acetic acid and alcohol, which provokes intestinal intoxication.

The formula for one gallon of EM5 is as follows (1:1:1:1:20):

1. 3/4C EM•1®
2. 3/4C Molasses
3. 3/4C Vinegar (white or apple cider)
4. 3/4C distilled alcohol (vodka, whiskey, tequila)
5. Add some other plant material*
6. Fill the gallon container with warm water (110-120ºF)
7. Seal and ferment until pH goes below 4.0

*People often mix in hot peppers and/or garlic for added benefits.

Spray EM5 alternately with EM•1® or EM•1® Fermented Plant Extract through a hose-end sprayer. The thought here is to prevent the pests from getting used to or building a tolerance to the same product.

Often people will set up an informal program as follows:
Week One: Apply AEM•1®, 1 gallon for 1/2 acre property
Week Two: Apply EM5 . 1 gallon for 1/2 acre property
Week Three: Apply EM FPE. 1 gallon for 1/2 acre property
Week Four: Apply AEM•1®. 1 gallon for 1/2 acre property

This pattern is repeated throughout the growing season.

ok I am going to try it for sure just have to go shopping for a few things vodka, whiskey, tequila.....gee vodka with some hot pepper and tom juice they could have bloody mary's LOL

Oh gawd, a garden full of drunken singing aphids and lily beetle!

LOL I was thinking that when I made my post yesterday but thought maybe I should hold off on saying that

CCG, EMFPE is EM Fermented Plant Extract. The directions for making it are in the APNAN manual listed in an earlier post. This is a great use for bermuda grass or other weeds that you may not want to add to your compost pile. Just ferment them with AEM and use the juice (extract ) as a liquid fertilizer.

Here's the link to Laurie's pernicious weed trial:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/870485/

The link to the APNAN manual is on the Bokashi #2 thread here:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4876640

The fun part of making FPE is to play with companion plants and make sprays that compliment the plant: basil extract for tomatoes, etc. I know of a company called BioFlora in Columbia, South America, that makes various extracts for their massive flower operation. For example, the make a pyrethium (chrysanthemum) extract for insect control. I know of other people who have made AEM1 with neem oil for pest control... You can always play with this stuff... Don't be afraid to experiment.

Eric

Thanks for making the link GM - I must go back and update it. The first bin was buried in the new lasagne bed - and seems to have already broken down (3 wks) quite well - looks like black early compost and has clearly effected the covering of grass above it. Quite impressive. I've changed containers, however, because the first one was so hard to disgorge the pickled material (wrong shape!) and now trialling a rubbish bin with a bubblewrap inner lining for the lid. I put a watertap at the base to draw off liquid and it is coming out in fair quantities and smells mildly vinegary - so so far so good.

I photo and add to the otherthread to bring it up to date at the weekend.

My thanks to everyone on this thread for being such inspiring tutors - well done.

Eric I hope you're still watching this thread. I just started a new batch of AEM yesterday and checked the ph today and it was 3.5 according to the color chart. How is this possible? I just smelled it and it's very sweet, not sour at all.

Let it ferment for 5-7 days to mature and develop the sour smell. You will also notice the color turn a little more reddish-brown, showing that the molasses is being eaten.

The pH can drop very fast some times. This means all the perfect conditions have been met. We often get the pH to drop in 24 hours or less.

I was talking to another teacher at school about saving cafeteria scraps for the school garden & began to tell her of the wonders of bokashi. She was surprised about adding the meat & everything and asked how the bokashi method killed E. coli, salmonella, and any other "bad" stuff. I guess after the whole tomato scare, it is a valid question. I never thought of that, but she was a nurse before becomming a middle school science teacher.

Does anyone know how the bad stuff is killed? Low PH???
Tabitha

If you go to the www.emamerica.con website they probably have explanations there.

Otherwise, I'll wait for Eric or one of more knowledgeable bokashi people to answer. I know I've read about it but can't remember exactly what.

katiebear

From what I have read, the EM does not directly "kill" anything. It is more of a competition issue. In the right situation (lower pH, anaerobic environment, food, etc) the consortium of microbes in the EM and the "bad" microbes compete for the food and the EM will win. There may be E-coli, Listeria, salmonella, but in extremely small indiscernible amounts. These bad microbes are everywhere anyway. There are better ways than to have this "kill them all" mentality. We have been led to believe (erroneously, I feel) that the only good microbe is a dead microbe. Being in the medical field (like your RN friend), I am constantly preached to about the virtues of aseptic environment. Wash hands (good idea), clean and disinfect all surfaces, etc., etc. Yet, every hospital I have worked at in the past 10 year is amuck in MRSA and VRE (Vancomycin resistant enterococcus). Makes me wonder if it would be better to control these bad microbes with consistent sprayings of AEM. I digress a little to illustrate the bigger point that we don't need to kill the bad microbes, just restrict their reproduction by controlling their environment.
As long as the food scraps are properly contained in an anaerobic environment, leachates are routinely removed, and AEM which is 3.6 or below on the pH scale is used, and the fermented compost is properly buried, etc., I think everyone will be safe, the dumpster will get lighter, and the soil where the ferment is buried will thrive. Win-win-win.
Jim D

{quote}Instead of using EM•1® Bokashi, you use Activated EM•1® Microbial Inoculant as a type of brine to soak food wastes in for 3-5 days and "pickle" them. {/quote}


I have some preliminary results. I gathered up weeds to fit into a 5 gallon bucket. (These were mature weeds with seed that I didn't want in my compost bin) compressed them very tightly. Added 1 cup of em1. Then added water to fil. Covered tightly for a week. When I opened the bucket, the "juice" was stinky and the weeds were beginning to decompose. I dug a hole and burried the weeds. I diluted the juice and fed my plants. :shrug. I'm not sure if the the weed seeds are dead? Likely not. But at least I won't be spreading them around my garden.

Then I pulled a new batch of weeds and started over. This week, I put in 2 cups of EM1 instead of 1. Maybe I should be using more.


This message was edited Sep 9, 2008 5:06 AM

Here's something I came across showing how to make a bucket out of a water or drink dispenser

http://www.vermiphil.com/downloadables/2008.31.5.6.18.29_COMPOSTING%20IN%20THE%20KITCHEN.pdf

Thank you Lulabelle1. That site presented a very clear set of instructions. The photos were really helpful, too.

Thanks jimmy & lulabelle, this is the type of info I've been searching for. jimmy, when do I test the ph? Before I put it in the garage to "ripen" or after it's already been there for 7-10 days, or both? Am I right to begin to remove the liquid before moving out to & during the full time it stays, in the garage?

lulabelle, the site you linked for us is very helpful, I put it as shortcut on my desktop. I bought 25 lbs of wheat bran yesterday feeling fairly confident about trying it again. So I'm going to try my hand at mixing my first batch of bokashi, it seems the best way financially to continue working at this project. Hopefully my next batch will prove to be fully successful.

Lulabelle, did you add any molasses to your brew? I've been adding molasses along with the EM and weeds. You may find it less stinky as the molasses will help feed the EM microbes when you start the process.

When you are processing the weeds with AEM, do the weeds need to float around in the liquid?...or is it layered like the kitchen waste with the Bokashi?

I do a more liquid brew, but I really pack the weeds in, so I wouldn't say they were "floating", although that is an option.

Laurie 1 posted pics of her brew project. Scroll up to my July 24th post. I've given a link to her thread.

I'm not using the 'drown them' technique (although I am thinking about doing another bin for that) - I'm handling the weeds in the same way I do my bokashi kitchen bucket - using innoculated bran. I've emptied 3 bins now, and they do look just like the kitchen bucket - pickled rather than composted. the first batch went into a lasagne bed in July. I had a dig around in there mid-august, and it is breaking down quite rapidly. I do find that I am transfering the top 12"/.3mtr of the bin to the bin that is in process. It wasn't ready. But everything under that was pickled. I'm pleased with it so far.

I'll be interested in how people find the liquid process. the only reason I chose to stick with the bran is at this point, and using a 220 litre container, I just wasn't quite ready to draw off 50-100 litres of liquid.

So....advice here please (OH, pretty please). I have carted the old stinking compost over to a new garden bed I am building....and I plan on laying it out (spreading a bit) and put some weedcloth over it. Would you throw the Bokashi on it? The Bokashi juice? Or spray EM on it? And if the latter, would you dilute it, or use it undiluted?

AlohaHoya:
If I were you, I would dig trenches or the like, set the soil aside, and place the bokashi material in the trenches and bury them with the soil that has been set aside. Maybe dig a foot down or so, spread the em material and then cover. It really needs to be underneath the top layer of soil as most of the microbes are anaerobic in nature. If the bokashi smells, that's OK, you can always spray good em (1% solution) on top of the smelly bokashi material and cover with the other soil. In a month or so, this area will be teeming with microbes, especially if you feed the soil in the meantime with amendments like blackstrap molasses, fish emulsion, etc (in very dilute amounts). Hope this helps.
Jimmy

Wow! I have been gone a while.

Pathogen "control": There is a lot going on here.

I will keep it to one item by saying that the pH is the biggest control. It is understood in food circles that a pH below 4.2 controls the growth of 99% of pathogens. Botulism spp. is one type that will survive in a lower pH range, but not as low as what EM1 is.

Carol,
As Jimmy wrote, bury the stinky stuff in a trench and spray down with some AEM1 in a hose end sprayer. Just fill the reservoir with AEM1, attach the hose, and spray away.

As an avid user of EM1 I have been asked a question I cannot answer. The questions is: How do I know that using EM1 raises microbial activity in my soil. Can I measure the soil before EM, during and after EM to verify increased microbial activity?

Yes, you can measure if you want to send your soil samples to a lab for testing, or have the equipment your self.

http://www.soilfoodweb.com/01_services/how_to_interpret/01_review_your_report.htm

DG members can get a 10% discount at www.emamerica.com by using the code DGarden (case senssative). Don't know how long this promo will run.

katiebear

Looks like all of you are getting it. Isn't it fun?

Here's something else:
If you don't want to have to go through the hassle of draining the liquid, or building a bucket of your own with a spigot (the bucket prices are going up by the way...as is everything these days!), you can simply add more bokashi or add in shredded paper to suck up the liquid in the bucket. No drain needed.

This material is really good to feed to worms once you have let it ferment for at least a week.

Thanks for all the help, Eric! I'm new to posting, but I've been reading all the threads and great info from you and everyone. My head is spinning with all this great info.

Ready for another question? I started the AEM a couple of days ago, but I didn't order any pH strips. From my reading I need to test it to see when it's ready to go - or is there another way of knowing when it's pHinished?

I have used the ph strips but now just give it a few days and then start using it. I noticed that Carol mixes EM with molasses and water and then uses it right away. Although you can be very exact and scientific I've found it doesn't seem to be necessary. The EM is very forgiving of lots of variants.

katiebear

Katiebear - what does yours smell/look like after a few days? I assume you have pretty warm temps, as do I for a few more days. Does it swell the bottle in a few days so you know it's "working"?

I've been using the EM for a lil over a year ..I spray the plants and yard and use it to water the things I have potted over the winter.
I extend mine and use the water and molasses.
I usually let it sit several days before using it and when it is warm out (as I keep it in the garage) I "burp" the jugs as they start to swell when it is hot