Strawbale test plot

Yesterday. Notice the size and fullness of the plants in the enclosed row. There is no comparison. Next year the other row will be enclosed and probably placed farther apart and also with hay instead of straw. Thanks Kent for getting me hooked!

Another one from yesterday from the other end.

Doug

Doug: great comparison plots. Keep on baling!

Doug-

I couldn't find any mention of what sort of bales you've used. After my results from this year, I know that I'll be using nothing but hay next year. The difference is so startling- like night and day. The hay needs much less fertilizing . . it has its own nutrients. And it seems to hold the moisture much better than the straw.

Interested in hearing your experience in this regard.

Namaste- Suzan

Suzan, I used straw this year but am considering hay next year.

Doug

Alfalfa hay bales have gotten so expensive that I probably won't do that next spring. I am sure the small bales will be somewhere between $10.00 and !2.00 and since i have plenty dirt i will probably just plant in the ground. I will go take a couple of pictures of my compost area and send along.

Donna

How goes the test plot? I am going to try this kind of gardening next year.

Donna, I see alfalfa bales advertised in the classifieds in the Exchange I thought it was or else the Spokesman Review, for $5. If there was a way to hold them over for next year. Maybe covered with a tarp.

Jeanette

DitchLily, they are doing great! I had a neighbor stop by Saturday and he couldn't believe how vigorous they were. The ones planted in dirt are starting to die back but the ones in bales are dark green and healthy. I will say that the ones in the enclosed bales have done much better than the open bale row. They are bushier and producing better. I used straw this year but depending on the price of hay next year I may use that instead since Suzan is such a proponent. I really haven't had to water as much as I thought I would have and as far as fertilization goes it's been a non-issue. I know Kent and most of the others fertilize weekly with Miracle Gro or something similar but I used a slow release organic at the beginning of the season and have not fertilized once since then and they are going gangbusters. I'll try to post updated pics in a day or two.

Doug

Thanks for the update. I am growing tomatoes in the ground this year and have an ongoing battle with squash bugs. Bugs on the plants, eggs on the leaves, cycle repeats. I thought this might be a way to avoid some of that next year, in addition to all the other benefits I have heard.

As far as I was concerned, pests and diseases were not an issue either.

Doug

I had my first major problem with a virus/wilt/disease/something this year. It affected just my German Johnsons and Cherry tomatoes and it went through them like wildfire, very fast. I pulled them all up and the rest of the tomato varieties fared well.

I didn't have anything analyzed so I'm not sure what the culprit was.

Anyone else I talked to that had German Johnsons also had similar problems.

Other than the standard pests that are controlled with Sevin and other sprays, that's the only problems I've had.

Kent maybe I was just lucky but I haven't had a pest problem at all. Now squirrels are another matter!!!

Doug

Doug; I just came back to this forum, and read it through. I am impressed with the results, of your test.
I may have to give the bales another go round, next spring. My bales weren't worth a hoot this year. The season is nearly over and I picked my first tomatoes from the bale row.
This was not a very good year for most of my garden. We started out very cold then it would warm up and rain. Then it would turn around get cold again. Luckily I planted extra. As I have enough for the winter, and had enough to give away too. However I didn't get many really nice shaped tomatoes. Hail got some of them too.
Hopefully next year will will be better.
I will try the enclosure around some bales then.
I will save the bales from this year for a second enclosure, and try sweet potatoes in that one.
I was trying 4 different kinds this year So far the Georgia jets have a satisfactory vote for size. The vardamans, seem to have more per hill but need more time to get a better size. I haven't dug any others yet. but they are the Centennials and Beauregards.
95% of my garden was in dirt this year and I didn't get all the rows mulched like I have in the past. and it shows. But my sweet corn done real well. I even left some ears on the stalks. I am now feeding that to my ( compost digesters ) 4 goats. They are producing next years fertilizer. Probably not as it would be a lot of trouble to rake it up. lol
But when I put that area in corn it will probably help then.
I have access to plenty of Horse poo, and like the idea of packing it in around the bales. The extra heat is probably what I needed this year.
Last year was better but I think the extra heat would have helped. I know I lost a lot of heat to the wind. So I tip my hat and say thanks. I will give that a try.
Some of what I planted this year will not net any produce, as it has been too cold. That is mostly melons that won't make. They got a late start as well.Therefore my fault. I had to try though.

Russ, I think you described everyone's, or almost everyone's, weather this year to a tee. I got a few tomatoes, most off of Dr. Wyche and that was one I planted the seed kind of at the last minute. I did get a lot off of the cherry tomato Sun Sugar which is the best cherry I have ever tried. You might give it a try next year. Come to think of it, I just might have some seed left to send you a few. They are really stingy with those seeds. I'll see what I have. You should try them.

One more thing, if it looks like we might have a half descent year next spring, I am going to invest in hay instead of straw.

I have started taking the straw and mulching my perennials already. This is the straw left from last year's bales.

Jeanette

Russ my bales are still producing very well even though most of the tomatoes in the dirt of mine and my neighbors have just about dried up. It has been about six weeks since we had any rain but I picked a couple yesterday about 5-6 inches in diameter. I am definitely going to grow all my toms in bales next year. I think I will even grow my cukes and squash in bales too. The peppers for some reason just didn't do well at all so they will be back in the dirt next year. I think due to using the Ammonium Nitrate the bales decomposed so much that I won't be able to reuse them next year so I plan on getting the bales in late Feb. or Mar. and let Mother Nature take care of softening them up for me. I know Kent and a lot of others fertilize each time they water with Miracle Gro or something similar but the only thing I did was to fertilize at first with a slow release organic and I have not fertilized since! I am a BIG believer in this form of growing and so is everyone who has seen my results. I have a feeling there will be quite a few "balers" in the county next year!!

Doug

Thanks Doug;
I had the same experience with peppers. But I tried a few in the bales this year anyway, same thing. So I agree my peppers will be in dirt!
I may however start making some raised beds. I mean really raised, about 3' to 3-1/2' and try a mix of compost, saw dust, sand and soil. and a slow release fertilizer, plus some preen to slow down any weeds.

My garden size just over whelmed me this year, and the weather did not cooperate very well. except it was great for weeds.
When I could get in the garden, I usually had 6 other thing I needed to get done. But that is normal most of the time. LOL

All in all I am satisfied with the harvest so far. Most every thing was late and I won't get any melons. My onions were small when the tops went over, so I have a bunch of small onions, ( use two there small) Ha Ha.

Keep up the great work, I will try getting some things started this winter and maybe posting some pics.
Russ

Russ, I didn't hear anything about canning other than once I think I heard some salsa. Does that mean that your crop didn't do even that good?

I thought you were taking on an awful lot too. Wanting to take some to Gary's and sell. That is one lot of work. BUT, take into consideration the late cold spring - - - - - However, if all those plants had done well it might have killed you Russ. Just trying to keep up with them. I guess God works in mysterious ways.

Jeanette

Howie and I were SO impressed with your strawbale garden when we stopped by your place on the way to the Kentucky Roundup, Doug. I really want to do this next year, along with several homemade Earthboxes.

Well the honeymoon is over... Pulled up the 'maters yesterday evening due to the coming frost/freeze tonight. Still had about ten pounds of green ones on there, some as big as an orange. I brought them in to ripen in the house. As I suspected the bales were so far gone I'll have to get new ones next year (and yes Suz some of them will be straw!) The enclosed row I'm seriously considering just leaving the decomposed straw and manure in there, adding the other row's decomposed straw and maybe some compost come Spring (NOT soon enough) and just planting in that. It would be a very rich growing medium. The other row will be moved a little farther from the enclosed row and enclosed too probably since I liked the results from the enclosed row quite a bit. All in all I was very pleased with the results and Kent has made me a believer. Thanks buddy! Next year I'm adding two more rows up the hill a little by themselves to grow cukes and squash and maybe a pumpkin or two for Halloween so they all will have room to spread. The cukes I grew in the raised bed beside the strawbales just about took over the bed and part of the mater plants for a while. That will leave my raised bed for peppers and herbs and whatever else I feel like growing next year. I'm not signing off for the year, I'll be lurking in other forums and here too to pass the cold weather away!!

Doug

Hi Doug;
Just read your post, I admit cukes like to take over a lot of space.
About 10 years ago I started giving them something to rank up on. They won't do it by themselves but tying them up on a fence or preferably a section of a cattle panel. They do rather nicely. They don't take up all the space. Best of all no stooping over to pick them and loosing your balance trying not to step on any.
I haven't tried planting cukes in straw bales but I have had squash in bales. No reason they wouldn't do well there as well. I feel so blessed with good soil, that I Put them in the ground mulch around them and tie them to the cattle panel. This year I used all my cattle panels for tomatoes. I provided a light weight fence with 2x3 holes. I had two cukes get caught in the holes and had to cut the wires to get them out.
My bales didn't do so well this year. I got enough tomatoes alright but they were late and smaller. It was a cold spring and I didn't have the bales enclosed with boards. I think that may have made a big difference.
Russ

Hey Doug,
Been readin' about your test of enclosed vs open straw bales & was wonderin' about using treated lumber for the enclosure. Don't the chemicals used for treatment leach into whatever you're tryin' to grow? Seems to me I heard somewhere that treated lumber was a no-no for raised beds. Maybe new chemicals don't cause a problem?
Ron

Ron to my knowledge from what I have read before, treated lumber poses no risk like this. I have heard the creosote from railroad ties leaches a minute amount into the soil, but again no significant risk. I don't think there would be too many raised beds around if you didn't use treated lumber since untreated would rot in no time from being in contact the moisture in the soil.

Doug

You can apply a preservative and a sealant. There's a pretty good article about pressure treated wood at this link: http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infxtra/infpre.html

"Applying a sealer can protect against CCA exposure...
According to the EPA, studies show that the application of a penetrating oil finish can reduce or eliminate exposure to CCA in older decks and to the chemicals used in newer decks. So it is recommended that all pressure-treated surfaces that have human contact be coated with an oil finish (or paint) as needed."

This message was edited Dec 27, 2008 11:20 AM

Bump - great thread

bump- and again

Doug - I see your netting/wire enclosure around your bales and wondered if that was not difficult to pick the produce from lower branches?

Anyone - Does anyone have gopher problems? I am new at reading all this strawbale stuff and it sounds like a great idea. Too high for rabbits. We have ground squirrels and guess they could be a problem, but the biggest problem is the gophers. For that reason my garden of tomatoes, peppers & zuchinni are in containers. Although straw & hay may not be cheap, neither is potting mix!!

Last year I had squirrels eating my tomatoes so I put bird netting around it and they are afraid of getting caught in it so they don't try. However, tomatoes to pick are nothing like the vine crops.

Quiltygirl;
I saw the small holes too and wondered about that too. I think if I had a tomato that was ready I would get out my handy snips. lol
I am pretty sure bales would solve the gopher problem with Tomatoes
and your peppers. I see that Kent even ties up his zucchini.
I tie up cucumbers and have tied up muskmelons. If the melons are the larger variety they may need to be supported. Nylons work well.
However there are some things I just have to plant in dirt. Like sweet potatoes and sweet corn.
Of course this year I fell down on the job and didn't get to the garden until almost too late, so no bales and I have a lot of weeds.
My problem! Next year will be different.

My brother and I trapped gophers when we were kids. Knew just how to set the traps too. lol

Hi Jeanette I'm just kind of lurking, taking things easy.
No tomatoes yet, We've had the rain and some warm days, just too cool at night. I have one just starting to turn. Now the sweet corn is doing just fine. Getting a lot of beans and beets. No cucumbers yet.

Russ: hey, big guy! Glad to see you around.

Nope, I've never tied up or staked zucchini or any of my squash.

Now Kent, What were those Trombocinni you had on a wire or two. They were hanging down and pretty long. Or was I just imagining things??

I don't think Russ' brain was damaged Kent. He still has his memory. You will have to find the picture Russ. LOL

Jeanette

Jeanette; I run through a lot of postings. I sure gabbed a lot.
I found the picture. it was June 25- 07 posts 3658885 and 3658892.
Yup those Tromboncino were a hanging on that concrete reinforcing wire.
Kent has probably had one too many night shifts. LOL
Still love ya Kent.
Now I got to go out and finish what I started, several hours ago.
Still have some plants in containers that need to be in ground as they are a perennial for here.
Russ

Russ, in my best Foghorn Leghorn impersonation, "I say, I say, boy you seem to be on to something!" LOL

I totally forgot about the trombocino my eagle-eyed friend!

Yes, your honor, I would like to recant my last statement about not tying up my squash, and just say it was momentary lack of concentration. As a matter of fact, I'll just say it was just too many night shifts. Yeah, that's it.

Hey ol chap. We all do it. This time, I had the laugh. No I'm not really laughing. Maybe a little chuckle.
But it does work to tie up some of the smaller vine fruits and or veggies. and save the tip toe among the vines trying to gather a pail or so of cucumbers or what ever and find that you just stepped on the best one.
Well Kent I've had a long day. Gonna hit the sack early. enjoy the sunset.
Russ

This message was edited Aug 4, 2009 8:56 PM

Good pic, my friend.

Very pretty Russ. Thanks. Jeanette

Jeanette, Kent, randponder and rest. Nice to read your posts. Pretty sunset. It has been so dry and hot here that it is probably a good thing I didn't try any bales this year. just planted in the ground and have had a hard time trying to keep my garden moist enough to grow. Have had beautiful Orient Express cukes and now nice tomatoes after I put bird netting around them to keep the quail from pecking into them. Corn is doing well, first plant is about finished and 2nd will be ready soon.

Haven't been taking pictures much, too hot. I just do a little gardening early morning late evening.
Just a tiny rain about 10 days ago. Rains in Spokane and around me but not here.

Good gardening all. Donna

You must have ESP Donna. I was just wondering how you were doing the other day. It's good to know you are doing well in the heat over there. Did you have that 100 + weather yesterday? It finally cooled down here. Would you believe we had 69 degrees on Saturday? Not much higher than that today. However it is creeping back up again. I hope we haven't seen the end of our summer tho.

I have a lot of tomatoes on the bushes but they are taking a long time getting ripe. The craziest thing is that I have had 3 huge Brandywines and some yellow cherry tomatoes ripen but not many of the in betweens. Now can you explain that one to me?

Anyway, it is nice hearing from you, stick around and maybe try the bales next year.

Jeanette

Hi Donna, Good to hear from ya. Know what you mean, just a while in the morning and then in the evening. That is what I've been doing lately.
I am fairly sure, I will cut back on the garden size next year.
Something about the whop on the noggin, taking some of the sap out of me.
Anyway, make it smaller, to where I can take care of it myself. I was supposed to have all kinds of help this year but it didn't work out that way.
You hang in there, an bend the fence once in a while and take some pictures, Ya Hear. LOL
Russ