Strawbale test plot

I had sent Kent a Dmail earlier in the season saying I was going to try this. I have one row of bales ( yes Kent string side up!!! ) like the rest of you and one row "enclosed" with pressure treated lumber. My thinking is if this works; next year or the year after I can just remove the old bales and drop in new ones. If it doesn't work I have a wonderful raised bed with compost already in it. The spaces between the bales and the boards (about 3.5 inches) I plan to fill in with horse manure later this week. With the addition of the manure I can't see having to fertilize as much. I left the posts higher than the boards so I could add a 1 X 2 or similar board between the posts to aid in support of the tomatoes when they grow taller. If I don't like the results I'll just saw off the posts and put a 2 X 8 on top of the boards and posts as a sitting rail when gardening. I will keep you posted on the progress via this thread. Wish me luck in my very first year of strawbale gardening!!!

Doug

Kent I meant to say string side on the bottom and top not on the sides!!!

This message was edited Apr 28, 2008 12:23 PM

As you can tell the site is on a slight slope, so I had to till under where the bales would be to make it semi-level.

Doug

I made boxes for some bales and put soil on top. The bales I used were a year old to start and lasted 2 years. It was a bear to get the old bales out. I had to turn the boxes over and dump them out. The old bales then mixed with the soil so I had just spread them around and threw the boxes away.
I hope your experiment will work better. I guess the horse manure will cause some heating problems early on unless you aged manure.
Another idea. You can wrap plastic around the posts and make a green house. You would have to make a door at one end or something. Of course it would be tough walking unless you put some gang planks down the sides.
Great trial, keep us posted. Paul.

Doug: you're doing a fine job! Keep us posted.

Kent

Well I can see a difference already. I just went out when I got home a checked the temperature in the bales. Today is the first day I've really watered them. The bales standing on their own were 64 degrees and the ones enclosed were 70 degrees. I guess the "frame" around them helps to minimize the heat loss and coolong effect of the wind.

Doug: I get a similar effect from my double rows -vs- the single rows, especially if it turns cool at night.

Kent

Doug: I was just looking at your photos again and it occurred to me that I want to try a similar set-up with the treated lumber (or some other material) next year.

Here's what I was thinking.

Way early in one of our very first threads I mentioned how someone in England years ago had experimented with straw but they didn't use a whole bale at a time. They broke the bale apart in "wads" and packed it in smaller containers that were a lot more mobile.

I even mentioned that plastic milk crates would work.

Well, I wanted to come up with a way to do the same thing but on a larger scale. Maybe some sort of narrow trough, not as wide as you have, but about 1 ft. wide.

I thought about even using some heavy, thick plastic sheets screwed together.

Add some baffles about every 18 inches so I could pack the straw in within each section.

This would work great with the straw from the previous year.

I also think adding sawdust would work well. (I think 100% old sawdust would work.)

That way I wouldn't have to spend so much each year on getting "fresh" bales.

Anyway, your pics helped me visualize what I wanted to do a little better.

Kent, I haven't gotten bales yet, been too busy with a plant sale fore the Master Gardeners, and I was looking today at my bales from last year. I have milk crates. Wonder if the 2 would work together? Or would the leaves of the old bales be too wide for the milk crates?

Since I don't have bales lined up, maybe I will give it a try this year. Still get some new bales. Hopefully I can do it this week. It has been so darned cold that it seems everything has been put on hold. It will probably turn 100 degrees all at once.

Let me know what you think about that?

Jeanette

Jeanette: I definitely think the old straw/hay can be used. I grew some great-looking potatoes in my old bales. No reason nothing else won't like it, too.

Kent

Got the horse "poop" placed around the bales Thursday evening. Yesterday was the third day of 1/2 cup ammonia nitrate per bale. Should be planting next week sometime. I have decided to plant about 3-4 Better Boys and 3-4 Big Boys per row of bales so I have an actual comparison using the bales wrapped in lumber versus standing alone. I will try some peppers in each row too.

Happy Sunday everyone, Doug.

Doug, I like the idea of the boards, other than the great cost of lumber, but I think if it were me I would have snugged them right up close to the bales to keep them in shape. Otherwise what is the purpose???

Jeanette

Well I wanted the upright boards on the inside mainly for looks so this in essence created the gap between the bales and boards. As I stated in my first post on the thread, if I didn't like the results of the bales, I would still have a nice sized raised bed to grow in in future years, so that's another reason for the wider opening. I think though the wider opening also allowed for the manure to be put in there which will only help in moisture retention and less fertilization required. I guess I'll see, after all it is a "test" plot!!!

Doug.

Todays update:
The bales inside the lumber frame were anywhere from 115 to 130 degrees when I got home, the standard bales were from 78 to 85 degrees. Tells me the heat loss is considerable when not enclosed. I have been using the same amount of ammonium nitrate on both. The ones inside should be ready for planting in a couple more days but I am going to wait until both rows are ready for planting so I get an even analysis on the outcome of growing both ways.

Thanks Kent for getting me hooked!

Doug

Doug that is an interesting experiment you have going there. That is pretty hot. They will start to cool down in a day or 2 and be ready to plant. But, I'm with you. I would wait for the others also.

Jeanette

Doug: no doubt the boards helped maintain the temps. Just like I found out a double row heats up better than a single row. Same principle.

Kent

Oh, and glad you're having fun. :-)

This message was edited May 6, 2008 4:20 PM

Don't know if the bales are cooling down or just stagnant. I watered yesterday evening with a sprinkler to save time. Today the temps were way down in the enclosed bales but still about the same in the open bales. 75 - 80 degrees in the open bales and around a 100 in the enclosed ones. I went back this evening with a watering wand like I've been doing to soak them more. Seems to me the sprinkler wasn't giving them enough water to decompose. I'll check again tomorrow eve and report. Yesterday you could feel the heat when you got close to the bales but not today. You can see the difference in the coloring of the bales in the enclosed area versus the open ones though. I think I've already come to the conclusion that the enclosing makes them "work" faster. I really want to plant at the same time in both rows to have a comparison to go by so I'll wait until the open rows are ready even if it means I may not have my 'maters as soon as I'd like!!!

Cheers fellow strawbalers!

Doug can you smell them? It seems they have that certain smell to them when they are ready to plant. Maybe I am crazy, been told often enough. LOL

Jeanette

Well I think tomorrow is the day to plant. It's supposed to rain on and off all day so I'll get them done between showers. Considering what tomorrrow is I hope I get the "Mother of all tomatoes" !!!

Happy Mother's Day all you Mom's!

Doug

Kent, Jeanette, or anyone else experienced; what is a general maximum temperature that you should avoid before planting? Some of my bales were still ~120 degrees yesterday. I was going to plant today but I don't want to fry my 'maters yet!

Doug

Doug: I'm not sure what the danger temp is for plants. If the bales are still "cooking" I'd hold off on putting in any plants. You didn't say if these high temps are coming from your enclosed bales or the others. Since your first post was 4/28, the bales should be winding down.

Kent

Yes Kent, the enclosed bales. The others are about 90 or so. I'll wait a few more days then. Thanks.

Doug

Doug, very interesting experiment you have going there. Glad you are keeping us up to date. I think my two only bales are ready to plant. I would like to try more bales but so very expensive, $8.00 per hay bale, alfalfa.

Donna

Yes Donna, that is what the alfalfa is running here too. I am just going to use my old bales from last year, a raised bed, and use some of the soil from the raised bed from last year and see if I can get it clawed in before the sand turns to cement and plant that too.

Jeanette

Donna, I would think in the breadbasket of WA state you would find a better deal than that. I really miss that place. I was stationed on Whidbey Island in the late 70's. I had a motorcycle and would ride all over, from the Olympic peninsula to Grand Coulee Dam and beyond. It is such a beautiful state. I still remember the Apple Blossom Festival in Wenatchee I rode to one year. I first learned to ski in WA. I still have not found a better place to ski!!! I can't complain though, Kentucky has a very varied terrain and is quite beautiful in it's own right, plus we have the best thoroughbred horses and the best whiskey in the world!!!

Doug

Doug yes I think KY should be a great place to live except for the humidity. I have lived here my whole long life. I live in the desert part of WA. Have to irrigate from Feb. till late Oct. or whenever a killing frost gets everything. But alfalfa hay has gotten very expensive the past couple of years.

It is fairly windy and quite cloudy today and I am hoping for rain.

Donna

Well folks I finally got them planted yesterday evening. Kent they were good and slimy down inside! Even the ones I thought hadn't decomposed as much were pretty mushy. I just used a garden trowel to dig down and wiggle back and forth to make the holes to plant in. In each row I planted 2 Big Boys, 2 Better Boys, Hot Banana Peppers, California Wonder Green Peppers, some Banana Peppers I had started from seed and one Heirloom Tomato given to me. I think I have a good selection to compare the results of the open bales versus the enclosed ones

Doug

ps: the beer bottle on the post is my favorite gardening "tool" chuckle....

Another pic

Last one

Doug: looking fine.

Kent

Doug, looking good. The rug is a good idea. How do you irrigate your plants. It is so very dry here. I am using a soaker hose down the middle of the bales. We have had two light night shower/rains so far this year!!!!!!

Donna

Donna I have two ten foot soaker hoses I am going to use. It has rained here quite a bit in the past week so watering hasn't been an issue. Yes I got a piece of old carpet (and need more) to put between the bales so the grass does not grow plus it makes it less of a muddy mess after watering!

That's a real good idea Doug.

Jeanette

Update: The following pics were taken June 7th, I just haven't gotten around to posting. (been too busy in the garden and building ANOTHER retaining wall!)

The enclosed bales are doing WAY better than the open row. Less evaporation and/or the manure around the enclosed bales I suppose. About 4-5 days after these were taken the peppers were looking a little yellowed so I added some 10-10-10 lawn fertilizer around everything. BIG mistake, I guess it got the bales cooking again. One of my Better Boys in the enclosed bales just started to wilt really bad and a couple of peppers in both rows did also. The one heirloom tomato I have in the enclosed row also started to wilt but I kept watering and saved that one. The peppers and the Better Boy did not make it. RIP. I replaced the Better Boy with another one about half the size of the original. I have now learned my lesson and will only use water soluble Miracle Grow or a slow release organic fertilizer.
Anyway here's a pic of both bales. Look at the difference in size at the tomatoes at the far ends of the rows.

Doug

Big Boys and Better Boys enclosed.

The same type of plants in the open row.

Open row Better Boy

Enclosed row Better Boy

Just thought of something. I really have a 3-way test going because I have two Heirlooms growing in the raised bed that are doing as good as the enclosed row plants. The bed is mostly compost and manure though so I guess the real difference if any will be disease and pests in dirt versus straw.

Doug

Doug: excellent comparison photos. Keep up the good work and the good note taking.

June 23rd