General Discussions - Chapter 21

To help the dial-ups, let's start a new thread.

Since we have our own forum now, I'll just shorten the title.

Kent

Kent, I got Wild Blue the other day so I don't have dial-up any more, but sure have sympathy for those that do. I was wondering if it would take up too much room to put the formula for the bales at the beginning of each part? Here it is, if you think it is too much for that let me know and I will edit it out. Jeanette

BTW Woofie, why don't you bookmark it, or cut and paste it into somewhere you keep notes?

Jeanette



This message was edited Apr 13, 2008 10:57 PM

Jeanette: Good job, but here's what I'd write now:

Days 1–3: Water the bales (with strings on the ground) thoroughly and keep them moist.
Days 4–6: Sprinkle the bales with 1/2 cup of ammonium nitrate (34-0-0 NPK) per bale per day, and water it well into the bales. I didn’t have any trouble finding ammonium nitrate from my local ag-supply store. They sold it in 50-pound bags. I have heard, however, that some people have had difficulty finding it in more urban settings. Ask around. Other sources high in nitrogen are Blood Meal, Urea, Manure Tea, etc.
Days 7–9: Cut back to 1/4 cup of ammonium nitrate per bale per day and continue to water it in well.
Day 10: No more ammonium nitrate, but continue to keep bales moist.
Day 11 or later: Transplant your plants into the bales. I used a spatula my first year (but now just use my hands) to make a crack in the bale for each plant. Place the plant down to its first leaf, add some potting mix in the crack and gently close the crack back together. Keep bales watered and plants fed as needed.

Kent

This message was edited Apr 13, 2008 7:28 PM

Hey all-

I just finished my third day of urea in the bales, and yesterday we got a soil thermometer and when i tested the bales, they were only in the 70s!! I don't know if I watered it too much and it went through the bales or why they're not heating up. I guess I'm going to have to 'bite the bullet' and get still MORE urea to redo the bales again. . . yikes.

My friend hooked up the soaker hose system yesterday, so I guess I'll just keep on trying, but I've got a lot of little plants waiting impatiently!

Suz

OK Kent, I will edit mine out. I just thought we are getting so many newbies now that we can try it for a bit. If it doesn't help we can always quit.

Suzan, I looked at my Urea today and it is 46-0-0.

Also, the picture looks good. Are you going to do anything in the middle, like newspapers and mulch or anything like that?

Jeanette

This message was edited Apr 13, 2008 11:02 PM

Hi All....

Suz, the tightness of the bales will make a difference, I believe...Last year my bales were loose & did not warm up well, but the plants grew anyway....

This year, the bales are very tight and they have started heating up after 1 dose of bloodmeal ... already 85 degrees.... 6 days from start.


Had a terrible water problem last year...lost my whole garden in late June......this year, I'm prepared. My solutions for xeriscapists.....

1. No more soaker hoses, they wasted a lot last year... hand watering...no more than 5 min. a day

2. a water resistant ground cloth under all bales...leading into a large sump (plastic tub) sunk just below the garden (garden is on a slope)

3. a 2 gallon watering can to dip water from tub as it accumulates & reuse on bales...

so far...I've collected an amazing amount of water that would have run off into the ground & cut my well pump usage to about half that of last year

how this will work when the plants get going ???? We'll have to see......

Foggy

BTW...I am saving newspapers to "wrap" the sides of the bale rows if it gets too windy in the new location & dries the bales too much.

I have quite a lot of salvaged 2 ft. chicken wire to hold the paper on.

This message was edited Apr 14, 2008 8:59 AM

Thanks so much. I'm going to copy it off now and save it. Now if I can just get my DH to move some straw bales over to my garden, I'll be all set!

Don't know if this was mentioned in an earlier thread, but just how large a plant do you typically put in the bales? A lot of the plants I have in my greenhouse are getting up to the gallon pot size and it's still way too cold to put anything out.

Jeanette, I'm still on Dial Up. How did you contact Wild Blue and is it expensive. TIA DonnaS

I got Wild Blue thru my phone company, which is a small company in Southern Idaho. With Washington State taxes it is $55 per month. It is satellite, no phone line. So, you don't have the cost of the computer line. It is costing me $35 more than the dial up but I can't get over how fast loading is. The pictures are not instant, but come up fast. That is the best part. I also get Google EArth which I could not get on dial-up. Not that I will use it much but it is interesting. Bob likes it.

Donna, I think my time is worth a lot to me and I cannot believe the time it saves me.

I also have Wildblue and I love it. I ordered it through a local rep, not our phone company, and my monthly bill is a little less, $49.95. Probably has to do with local and county taxes. I did have to pay for the equipment, tho.

Donna, I get a rate for seniors on my phone line & I get DSL in a package with dish /dsl/ phone...The whole thing is about $100.00 a month

for all three with extended area local dialing so I don't have to pay long distance to talk to Dr.s etc. Check with your phone service rep. & they might get you a better rate.

My son pays $80 for phone only........

Foggy

This message was edited Apr 14, 2008 1:39 PM

Foggy- Thanks for all your input. I was intending to put at least newspaper or architectural fabric under my bales in attempt to keep the water in the bales, too, but was advised NOT to. I have mixed feelings about the soaker hoses, but after my friend spent the $$ to purchase them, I'll give them a try first. I'm surprised that I haven't heard anyone using water/rain barrels. Don't want to dry out my well! Still, I assume that directly watering bales uses considerably less water than watering a garden in general. Wish I could afford to use Bloodmeal- just too rich for my blood (hee-hee) I'm thinking that next year I should schedule a keg-party for the week I need my bales watered and keep it out at the garden, along with directions to empty the 'rental beer' directly into the bales!

As to the tightness of the bales, my hay bales are pretty loose (in fact, I've been thinking about getting twine to retie them), but my strawbales are very tight- Both are about the same temp! I'm baffled. I'm thinking now that it may make more sense to soak the bales first and then sprinkle the urea and gently water them just enough to distribute the urea.

Suz, the main problem with my soaker hose was that the water sprayed everywhere but on the plants...leaving them dry , but soaking the ground underneath so the water really didn't go where it was supposed to & was mostly wasted....

According to Strawbaleman.....his water ran straight through when the strings were on the side so it might have been my application which was at fault

next year, I am going to invest in 2 small solar pumps(gaiam..30$ each) & put in a real drip system that will recirculate the water directly to each plant...then I'll just have to refill the tub when the water gets low.

Namaste,

Foggy


This message was edited Apr 14, 2008 4:41 PM

foggywalk, it sounds to me like you are using too much water pressure in your soaker hoses. I keep mine just so the water drips right by the h ose, no spraying at all. Works fine with my hay bales.

Thanks Jeannette and woofie. I will check with Verizon and see if anything can be worked out regarding Wild Blue.

Not springlike today, the frost fans on again and had to turn heat on in my house, and move tomato plants inside. Still no rain. I do have a rain barrel, for north side of mya garage, but not enough rain to even fill it .

DonnaS

Donna, thanks for the tip.....we have an ancient pressure tank on our well & it does not hold a constant pressure anymore....

already moved the soakers to my shade garden, but I'll try it there to see if that works better.

I know everything gets old & wears out...... even us....but don't you hate it?

Foggy;
I know it won't help your situation but a little over 20 years ago we still had an old pump jack sitting on an old sand point.
I replaced the leathers on it three times. and it still struggled to build any pressure in the tank.
I was still working road construction. Working all kinds of hours, was hardly ever home. So I had a neighbor who is a well driller, Drill me a new well and put in a submersible pump. OMG my electric bill dropped about $30 a month. I can't imagine how much that would amount to be now. I do consider myself fortunate that I had it done back then, as I don't have any shortage of water. We get dry weather, I just drag the hose out and water.
I guess I'm just saying money well spent. If I had not done it then I know I could not afford it now.
I do marvel at the many ingenious methods that some gardeners have come up with just to be able to furnish some water to the garden.
I wish you well, and that this year is not a dry season for you.
Russ

Hi, y'all- Just posted on one of the other 'threads' that I'm feeling pretty dissatisfied with the soaker hoses. I read what Donna told you re: the water going everywhere BUT the bales (and that is my experience, too), and then tried turning the pressure down on them today but ended up with many less than half-soaked bales and had to hand-water anyway.
I think that, if there wasn't so much footage, i could try covering the hoses while they were on to deflect the errant water, but I have 150' (and that's just a single line per bale).

How are your bale temps looking, J'nette, Donna, Kent, Russ and Foggy? What all are you growing? What're your local temps. like now? (Today, it was in high 50s to mid-60s, but nights have been in the low 40s and high 30s around here [Bucks County, PA])

I can hardly wait to start planting, but I know I have to! Getting my little peat seedlings 'hardened off' on the unheated sun-porch at night. . . Planted a lilac bush and some hostas and violets today. It's s'posed to be in the 70s for the rest of the week and all the daffodils, weeping cherries, forsythias, magnolias, plums and redbuds are so beautiful now!! We are so blessed.

Namaste- Suz

Suzan: just getting home from my afternoon/evening shift; I'm just keeping my bales moist right now. We're in a cold snap and I'll start adding my nitrate on Wed; will probably transplant everything weekend after this coming one.

Kent

Hi All. Today was warm but we had very strong winds. It was in the 70s
It will be short lived though. There is to be a cold front move in tonight.
Don't know how low it will go but that too will be short lived.
I have onions, radishes, and Spinach. planted. That is all in dirt. I still haven't went after my bales.
Today I went 3 steps back. The greenhouse I was trying to get done, was tipped over by the wind. This wasn't a light weight thing either.
It had a 4x4 frame on the ground and 2x4 frame work on the 4x4s. The north wall was enclosed with 1x6s the rest of the walls was plastic, with a fiberglass roof. I was just getting ready to drive steel posts at each corner to anchor it. Now I have the job of rolling it back over. Will have some repairs to do as well.
It is still early here, so no hurry yet. with curing the bales yet. I will probably wait untill the second week in May before planting in bales anyway.
I guess I will always have a use for dirt gardening right along with bales. As when my supply runs out, I probably won't be able to afford to buy bales At least not enough, to handle every thing.

Russ, sorry about the wind blowing over your started Gh. Has been windy here too.

And this morning down to just below 26 degrees, probably got some of the apricot blooms, but I hope some left. Too early to check .

I haven't even tried to moisten my hay bales, the water would freeze in the soaker hose I think. I have planted some things in raised beds. So spring isn't a reality yet. Weather man predicting rain for the weekend. I'll believe it when I feel it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DonnaS

Donna; Too bad when it don't rain, then if you can water the ground just drinks it up. Thankfully I haven't had that problem for a long time.
I won't be ready for it now with having to re set the GH, and get it all squared up again. We are supposed to get some rain on Friday.
I did get it flipped back up. and pushed around some so it looks half way square. The door won't close yet so there is some adjustment needed on leveling the main part of the lower frame.

I don't remember what it is supposed to get up to today but it is 60 already. I've had all sorts of problems this week. Almost enough to make a person just give up.
But that is just the way things happen some time. First the shelter for my lawn and garden equipment is lifted up by the wind from the north and flipped over the fence , then the wind changes and comes out of the south and flips the GH even before I get done with it. My Skid loader has a flat tire, I run out of gas in the rototiller and have to go to town and get some. But I'm winning I'll get done yet. LOL
Russ

Bless your heart, Russ- so sorry for all of the challenges, but I guess it really does make us more resiliant. It has been an unusually windy Spring out here, too.

Keep on keeping on- your great attitude will get you through.

Namaste- Suzan

Susan, I don't start my bales until May either. And this year everything is going to be at least 2 weeks late. May not get a ripe tomato this year. OH NO!!!

Jeanette

It did warm up nicely yesterday, so spread bloodmeal down the center of my bales and turned the sprinkler on them. Later will use soaker hose. The wind dries everything out so fast.

Russ sorry you had such a problem day. I have those days some times and think I should have stayed in bed, but that is boring and eventually everything seems to get back in the grove. Good luck and hopefully the wind won't blow so hard again.

DonnaS

Donna;
I got it righted and squared. Replaced a panel on the roof.
It is now anchored with steel post driven down to half their length.
I drilled holes in the steel post and put several large screws in each post to the beams.
I suspect that the winds could rip up the plastic now but if it took the GH now, it would take the house too.
That dome cover for my lawn and garden equipment is another matter.
It is tubular steel and canvas. I will put it back up and anchor it too but I have had the canvas ripped to shreds before.
That can wait untill I get a little further ahead, on the gardening!
I have a couple places to replace the plastic on the GH, and get some shelves in there then hurry and get some of the plants out of the kitchen and in the GH, so they don't get so leggy for the RU in just two weeks.

I started another flat of peppers last night. Today some time I need to pull off some more sweet potato sprouts and get them rooted.
It is sprinkling now, I am hoping it don't get really wet today, as I want to get a little more of my dirt garden tilled.
You are hoping for rain and I would like it to wait a day or two. LOL
Russ

I got home from my trip to Seattle just in time. Bob had done a pretty good job of watering, but had not moved any under the lights etc. So, some were getting leggy. I have run out of room.

Will have to do something about that tomorrow.

Jeanette

Boy, Russ- I wish you could send me some of your rain! Of course, it's been in the high 70s here for the last few days and they're talking about 80 tomorrow- everyone else loves it, but it's too fast for me. Just means I have to water that much more! I'm not sure what to do about the bales not getting hot. I've done everything 'by the book'. Getting a little discouraged, but hey- it's a garden, and one way or another, it's gonna GROW STUFF!

Here's wishing you light breezes and sunny days.

Suz

Jeanette, You know the weatherman is predicting snow for the weekend!!!!

I left my tomato and other plants out last night in my passageway from house to garage. Just barely didn't freeze. Was 34 this morning when i first got up. It is cloudy here. Yesterday was really nice. Had the kid who is working a little each week, dig my tomato holes. I have had really good luck growing tomatoes in deep holes filled with layers of shreds, compost, manure, plus nutrients. Don't think the kid had ever done much digging. He dug 11 holes in 2 1/2 hours and was just about too tired to walk out to the car to go home!!!!!!! Pretty expensive holes for me . I'm pretty sure I will have to move all my plants back inside for next 4 or 5 nights.

DonnaS

It was in my plan of things, to set the tomatoes out last night.
I went in for supper, with the intention of going back out. That was all the further it got just the intention. Now among other things setting them out and some pick up around the GH, it all waited just fine untill today, including putting away some of the equipment that I had brought up to the garage door. You don't suppose I was just tired?????
It is raining today, The temp isn't climbing very fast. it was 38 this morning and is just 41 now. Still need to get some kind of a bench in the GH, to set the plants on but I guess I'm still winning. RIGHT???
And Oh yes 10-4 on the light breezes. :>)

Suz Give the bales some time and if they still don't feel warm-- try to reach into the bale and pull some straw out, see if the straw looks to be decomposing. If it is already they may not get any hotter. and in which case - they may be safe to start planting. If the straw still looks good but just wet, I would just try only to use just enough water to soak whatever nitrogen sorce you are using. and let it set that way for a day then run enough water to just soak it into the bales.
My bales never really got hot last year. I think I may have watered them too much. As I had discolored water comming all the way through the bales and making the dirt around the bales wet with the discolored water. But they still decomposed. There wasn't enough left by frost time to even consider holding them over for this year.
Let us know, and Happy gardening.
Russ

Yes, we are suppose to get 4 inches of snow tonight and tomorrow. After all, it is only the end of April. What do we expect?

I got help putting up my portable greenhouse this morning but our night time temps are so cold I can't put plants in it yet. I will be glad when the plant sale is over so I can get rid of a lot of the plants I have started. I am out of room.

Jeanette

According to the weather man, it may get down to 36. I won't worry bout that. Don't sound like we'll get any snow either. Got my fingers crossed. :>)
With a few interruptions I got things patched fairly good on the GH.
For tonight I put a heat lamp out there. I only put out a bunch of Castor beans. I wouldn't feel too bad if I lost them.
I don't have a thermometer in the GH yet. But it sure felt better in there than outside. I will check how it feels after supper.
One of the interruptions was I helped one of the ladies we coffee with, to go online and get an airline ticket for her to fly out to Philly, for her fathers funeral. I guess that we will run her down to Omaha, to catch her flight. That's about 90 miles. I would say that her Dad had a good life, he was 92. Would have been nice if my parents lived that long. I'm sure they are much happier now though.

Two weeks untill the RU, sure hoping all the plants are ready.
I'm not too worried about the sweet potatoes. They are all looking pretty darn good. But I do have a little problem with them. It seems that somehow I have come up with an infestation of aphids.
I don't remember do I use denatured alcohol on them or what?
It is too close to time for Barb and I to head out for supper. So I will have to check on that later. I flushed several plants with the sprayer hose in the sink. It seems to work and they go down the drain.

Well you have probably heard that there was an earthquake in the Midwest. We didn't feel it here. as it was over in Illinois Indiana down to Kentucky. However it was felt as far into Iowa as Des Moines.
They were just showing some of the damage. to houses and some buildings that were closer to the fault line. That is kind of rare here in the mid west.
Well you guys just hold out a while longer, and the weather will settle down to where we can all be out in the gardens.
Russ.

You sure sound optimistic Russ. Yuh think? On the aphids, if at all possible, a good spray of water works best. If not possible, I think a lot of the people use soap and water. I never had much luck with that tho. I an sure the alcohol would work on them, but might on the plants also. I used to squirt some diluted peroxide on some of those critters like the gnats. Might work on aphids too.

Jeanette

Looked it up as well they didn't mention the peroxide. It said a forceful spray of water, not enough to hurt the plants. and a cotton ball and rubbing alchol. Or letting the soil in the pot to dry out more often.
I was trying , quite late last night to examine the plants, and either trying to squash the aphids or taking them over to the sink. I think I will try a little peroxide later, Thanks for a heads up on that.
Russ

Well I misplaced some pictures again. I was going to post a couple of my tomatoes in the GH.
Also a couple shots of the thermometer. First one was 100 I thought , not bad! I'll prop the door open.
After lunch I checked again it was 115; Thought OK time for a fan.
That brought it back down under 100.
Apparently the window I put in the opposite side as the door isn't big enough. I'll live with this untill after I plant every thing. I will then work on finding a bigger window, that will let more air out.
I have several tomatoes that are around 18" tall and some have blossoms. Then I have another planting that is right at 3" tall.
I believe I need an exhaust fan a little further up, so it will draw in some cool air. Also I probably find a temp control switch. Make it a little more automatic.
The outside temp is 60 so I guess the sun really means business when going through the plastic and being trapped inside. :>)
Russ

Russ, your tomatoes sound great. I just repotted Box Car Willie and Sweet Charlotte. That SC sure did look good. They were all very uniform in size and looked great. What was it you said about it?

I would love to have a greenhouse, but I just don't have a place where it would get much sun, so I don't think it would be practical. Waste of money I think. Yes , sounds like you need a fan..

Jeanette

The sweet Charolette, the tomatoes are a little bigger than a golf ball, maybe not quite as big as a tennis ball. They seem to be just a little sweeter than other tomatoes and if I remember correctly they are close to the same color as the Cherokee Purple. I would usually eat 3 or 4 of them while picking all the other tom's.
You will need to tie all of those up as they don't know when to quit getting taller. I started them out in the square cages as they were the taller of the cages I had. They weren't tall enough. Also the cages weren't strong enough to hold the plants up, without a steel post to hold the cage. I really should have put in a couple 4x4 posts and tied a cattle panel to them to hold all the tomatoes. And have the panel start about 3' up on the posts.

What is the tree tomato you sent me the seeds for Russ? That sounds like a strong grower also??

Jeanette

I really don't know why it is called tree tomato. It does grow a strong vine. The tomatoes are not as large as the giant beef, But they have great taste, slighty larger than a baseball.
But it does need to be tied up. They will not stand up by themselves.
I only had one, so that was all I had to go on.