too many imopopsis

Don't have the seed envelope in front of me, not sure if it's spelled corretctly, but you guys know what I'm talking about.
This was one of the seeds I first sewed, and unfortunately, I must have hit the seed pack a little hard, and I have a gazillion in there. They were sewn in a yogurt cup, as all of my seeds are. Now, I'm beginning to see some of them wilt. I can't find any true leaves yet, and they've been up quite a while. I have them 2" from the lights, and water as needed, i think. Oh, another thing, I'm not exactly sure that's what they are, as I've also misplaced the plant marker. Can anyone tell me what to do? Should I sacrifice most to save a few? I feel so attached to them all :-)) Thanks, g.p. p.s. i know this is not spelled correctly! All these names!

This message was edited Apr 3, 2008 7:38 PM

Hi Ginpan,

Pleased to meetcha on DG. Do you still have any seedlings left of Ipomopsis? What kind of action, if any, have you taken by now?

Going on the assumption that you still have seedlings and/or can resow, I'll give some advice on the possibilities that damping-off fungus and/or poor drainage might be your culprits.

Fungus likes dark, close conditions, so give your seedlings some air by:

-- thinning them out
-- opening a window not on them, but nearby
-- putting up a small fan to ventilate the seedling area
-- in your part of the world, you could probably put those seedlings outdoorsby now, but be sure to put them where they have shade at first, are protected from heavy downpours and can be taken in if any frost comes around. From day to day, gradually give them more bright light. (For really sturdy seedlings, I like to put my indoor-sown seedlings outside as soon as I see them begin to germinate, when there's no frost - tropicals may need more warmth)

Also, you could give them some anti-fungal/antiseptic treatment:

-- Prepare a solution of water and hydrogen peroxide (H202) by adding about 1 Tbsp of H202 to 2 cups of water and bottom-soak the pot in it only until the surface looks moist. The pot should be drained immediately. Chamamomile tea also works for some.

-- Sprinkle some peat on the surface (peat is known to have antiseptic properties).

Another cause of wilt could be poor drainage. If you allow your seedlings to sit in water beyond the point where their pots have absorbed water, some of them could *drown*. The reason soilless germinating media are appreciated for their relative fluffiness, is that thar's oxygen down among and between them thar particles. So, in the future, to augment good drainage, you can:

-- drain immediately after watering
-- use a fluffy, soilless germinating mix
-- add perlite and/or sand to the mix, and most importantly, put a layer of sand or perlite on top of your germinating mix. That surface topping will not only provide a barrier to surface-borne pathogens (of which damping-off fungus is one), but it is often aerating in itself (another pathogen control).

In addition to the above, oxygen can be increased around the plants' root systems by watering with a solution of 1/4 cup H202 to a gallon of water - lethal to some pathogens.

This link has excellent information on this subject that goes into more detail and other options than I have: http://davesgarden.com/community/blogs/t/rjuddharrison/1923/ , and it has collected links to other DG gardeners' much more comprehensive knowledge, as well.

So, never give up when seedlings wilt - there are many ways to rescue them or sow again more successfully.

Hi bluespiral...yep, I still have them in the cup. They are so thick that I don't know how to seperate them. A few are beginning to get second set of true leaves. Do you think I should fertilize them so they will grow a little more? How do I go about seperating them without killing most of them??? Any insight would be helpful...
Anna Ruth

I didn't read Blue's book up there, but I'm sure everything she says is spot on.

Speaking of book, here's mine. LOL!
It sounds scary, but it is not an experimental surgery. I've done it hundreds of times.

Doctor Gin,

Before you start the operation, be sure the operating room has all the necessary equipment for the seedlingectomy and subsequent transplant, and is well lighted.

Before you start: Have everythingyou need ready to transplant...soilless mix, pots or containers, a thin skewer or coffee stir stick, tweezers if you need them. Eyeglasses, a misting bottle filled with hot water (because it turns wam as soon as you spray it into a room temperature room). Papertowels for your dirty hands.

Before you start, the soilless mix in the pot (or yogurt cup) should be fairly dry. Do not do this after you've just watered...wait a couple days.

You will also need a nursery for the seedlings that are smaller than the others...these are the ones that germinated a couple days ago and are hidden down in the foliage of the bigger ones. You don't want to waste a bunch of potting soil on them because they are so small, but the Ipomopsis is a mix of colors, and those stargglers might be the prettiest colors of the bunch. (Often happens) My nursery is to set them aside and put them back in the same pot with the same soil they were growing in after I finish.

The easiest way to separate those pups is to chunk them out of the cup by upending into your hand with spread fingers. Then hold the ball sideways above a fairly clean table from a height of 5 or 6 inches and let them plop down. Thud! I learned it on The Victory Garden and it is how I have always done it. Once the mass thuds down, the roots have loosened, even if they are still held together. From there, you pick up the soil ball and pry it in half. Just like a chocolate cupcake you want to divide with your best friend. :) Because your seedlings are so young, you might not have to do ay prying at all -- it might break up just as you toss it down. Ya never know until you get into it.

Put one half back in the cup, and set it off to the side, and then with the half in your hand, break it in half like it's half a cupcake. From there, you keep working in smaller pieces until you are just pulling them apart. Keep in mind that as you go along, you want to get them potted, either into cell packs or whatever you're using. You don't want to leave little baby roots to dry in the air. Get them planted and covered as soon as you can.

There is some magic about waiting until the have a set of true leaves before fertilizing and also before separating...it's because what is happening above ground is also happening below ground with the roots. You don't want to water something with fertilizer until the root developmment is far enough along to USE the fertilizer.

I wait a day before actual watering, but I do use a mister to direct the new soilless mix down and around the roots. I put them under lights right away, but about 6" away from the bulbs, not the regular 2" that I usually use.

Just hang tite, If the plant(s) are wilting, it's because that one (those ones) isn't getting it's fair share of water...have you been bottom watering with warm water? Why don't you do that and see if you wait the 2 days for it to dry out a bit if you don't get a second set of leaves on most of the seedlings before you start tearing them up. Just kidding on the trearing them up. This will work, I promise.

I should show you some of the packs I have to separate yet -- people on here would have a cow if they saw them! Seriously, they are sown so close together it's a wonder they haven't all leaned over and croaked, but they are happy as clams!

Suzy

Bluespiral and Illoquin, both of you gave me excellent advice. I did a lot of work this afternoon on the seperating and potting. I feel sure I'll lose some. It's really beginning to be overwehelming. I have some that are so ready to go in the ground, but I bought some top soil today, but not the other things I need to ammend the soil. does anyone know where to buy sand?
Thanks so much for ya'lls very informative response. suzy, you need to be put in the nut house with Lorraine....I'm sure you two would be fabulous roomies lol

You buy sand anywhere, but you have to ask for it. ...Lowe's, HD, a garden center, Ace, The bags are 50#, but not very big because sand is so heavy.

LOL! How did *you* do it? (The separation of plants?) I thought I gave you pretty good advice!

Good thing you popped in, Suzy - I only addressed the wilting, not the separation of seedlings which you did so wonderfully adventurously.

May I add my swish to Suzy's splat? When separating congested seedlings, I have found that the roots float apart cooperatively after a minute or two of soaking the rootball in a saucer or bowl of water. As Suzy says, once you start, you need to replant the separated seedlings as soon as possible - I like her organized approach to it.

A Swish & Splat Nut House sounds pretty good to me - sign me up if Suzy & Lorraine are going to be on the guest list, too :)

girls, could this have been all for naught? I have looked up ipomopsis seedlings and mine just don't look like those. I think it was you, suz, that gave me the lecture on marking. oops, well, i think this may be something else because it isn't marked. if anyone out there has any ipomopis mezcla colibri that have sprung, would you please post a picture? as soon as my son returns my borrowed camera, I'll be able to post stuff. Was supposed to arrive last well, but uh, not yet...Oh, and suzy, feel free to post those pics you have. I did mine in pretty much the same way you instructed, but these were portulaca. I have yet to break up the ipomopsis. Maybe tomorrow. Thanks a bunch, gals. I appreciate the info. It's amazing that I once had a greenhouse and grew marvelous plants, and didn't have one iota of the knowledge that I've absorbed so far.