lasagna gardening helps

Can you do a lasagna in an established bed without digging everything up? What recipes do you have? I only have one with peat every other layer.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/800670/

Go to the thread above. There's a whole discussion about composting in place (lasagna) w/o digging everything up. I just did a new spot under my bean Teepee. Layered newspaper & compost from a bed that's filled with earthworms. Later, tomorrow, will pull a trench down the middle and pour in the table scraps for the worms. In three week, the grass beneath the newspaper will be dead, and the compost will be rich and aerated from the worm activity in the soil.

Hope this helps.

This was just the thread I was looking for! I saw it once before. Thanks so much!

Glad to help!

i just went and bought the book a few days ago. She recommends using a thin layer of peat every other layer, Ididnt do that because I had alot of compost already. She basically recommends all kitchen scraps except fatty foods and meats. No cat or dog feces. I used leaves, sawdust, grass clippings and just a thin layer of peat on the bottome (over the newspapers) and then a layer of coffe grounds on top of that so that the worms would eat through the newspaper. I have really heavy clay soil under the bed I created, and no grass. Thats why I used the blood meal.... I didnt have enough kitchen scraps to give enough nitrogen to the bed. then on top I put another layer of peat moss (used about 3.8 cu feet total for a 75 sq ft bed total of 12 inches high).... I'm hoping that this works LOL.
I also covered the bed with black plastic to 'bake' the lasagna, like she recommends in her book.
Let me know if you get any other useful info, as I am now working on a huge bed that is about 20 ft wide by 50 feet long. I can use any info anyone has. I just dont want to have to go buy alot more stuff, but want to be able to plant in that bed in a few weeks.
:-)

That sounds like a book I just read! I have enough compost for my first project, but won't have enough in the fall. So I would also like suggestions on overwintering a lasagna garden. I don't plan on putting plastic on top of mine. I do plant on sprinkling seeds on top of my first project with compost being my top layer. The coffee grounds sounds like an excellent idea. Thanks! Would you just do a thin layer just to cover the newspaper? You are taking on a big task. Is there a community leaf mold or compost pile you can go dip in for free? You might want to call around and see what you can find out. See if there are any master gardeners in your area that can perhaps point you in that direction. I plan on doing that soon myself. What about cattle ranchers or people that have horses? Do you know any so you can get free manure? Peat is expensive here, that is why I was asking if there was any other way. As soon as you get your bed done you can plant in it.

I guess the main idea is to alternate carbon and nitrogen layers. Use your best judgment though. If something is high in nitrogen or carbon, use just a small amount before adding the next layer. Is this what you are meaning to ask about? I guess you want to kind of make it around a neutral ph. Or slightly alkaline or acidic is ok too.

I finished my 2nd lasagna bed, and am getting ready to cover it with black plastic so it will 'bake' for a few weeks. I want to bake it before I plant so that some of the compost will shrink down. I used wet newspapers, grounded up tree trunk (from my neighbor-this was a large tree too!) and 4 bales of peat moss. The peat moss cost $15 for 3.8 cu ft @ OSH. This was my most expensive item that was added. We also added a few bags of leafs that I collected from my neighbors and bloodmeal and coffe grounds. You can get coffee grounds from Star Bucks, they usually save them for gardeners. I just put a thin layer of grounds over the newspaper and then sprinkled more on the very top layer. Here is a pix of my 2nd lasagna bed-ready to be baked :-)

Most compost, according to what I've read, will turn out around a neutral pH, regardless of what raw materials it is fed.

For lasagna, I never consider pH in building, but rather just a mix of green N and brown C. My favorite mix consists mostly of shredded fall leaves and grass clippings.

Karen

I admit that I've never read Lanza's book, but I've made some nice lasagna beds. I know that she recommends plastic, but that's not something I'd put on my soil. I wouldn't want it to "bake" because that heat might cook the very organisms that need to do the work of composting. Also, it could lead to nasty, smelly, anerobic conditions. Healthy, living compost needs air.

I know that she recommends it in the book, but I just don't think plastic is something desirable for good soil and a healthy soil food web. Just my opinion.

Karen

Thanks Karen, I too was wondering the same thing. I dont have many kitchen scraps in my beds, but I was wondering about the smell... I think the idea was to help heat up the mix, and I am soo anxious to plant my seeds that I may just rip the plastic off next week and plant! LOL.

Anerobic soil smells awful, or so I've read.

But open to air, with the top layer comprised of high C to absorb odor, there should be no smell. If it gets stinky, it means there is too much green and not enough brown. The cure is to add more carbon, like top the hump with more dry fall leaves, wood chips, etc.

Karen

Good tips. I think that is why I am going to do most of my projects in the fall. When spring planting comes, the idea is it'll already be shrunk down to maybe 6" or less and be mostly decomposed. I think also, as the materials decompose, that is the food for your plants need to get established. Instead of fertilizing occasionally, it's on hand as needed.

Compost is generally, I think, considered to have a very low NPK based on soil analysis. But it's a great soil conditioner and contains micronutrients as well. What is does best is store these things in aggregates which can be released slowly, over a very long period of time, in a form readily used by plants.

Karen

Plants don't need a lot of P and K anyway don't they?

No, most really don't seem to in my yard. For the most part, I add a tiny bit of organic stuff into the hole when I plant, (and if I remember) and usually that's it for the year. If something looks sickly, I might add a little more later in the season, but only if the plant is looking sickly.

I don't use chemical or salty fertilizers anymore, except in containers. I find that they really do best with "junk food" fertilizers. I figure there's no real soil life there, anyway. When the summer is over, I dump all of my containers into my compost.

Karen

I basically do the same thing. I meant fertilizer in a general term. I guess I should have used compost or something instead huh? I have been told you can add compost to your container plants. But you don't. Why not?

i did all the above --newspapers, coffee grounds, leaves--layered, turned, watered it --i did all this early fall--it is looking good and breaking down --but i read a few times in this site that it will break down in a few weeks but i think it will take longer--mine sure did

Time to break down will vary with what the ingredients are, the C:N ratio, level of moisture, all the normal stuff. For sure, keep it moist, and that helps a lot. If it dries out, rotting stops.

You might want to look up "interbay mulch". It's the same as lasagna only the hump is kept covered with burlap. The burlap helps to hold moisture, and the darkness it provides allows organisms to grow faster. I generally do that and definitely find that it speeds up the breakdown. If the burlap doesn't cover parts of the bed, those parts are slower to break down.

Karen

in a few weeks tho?

Never having lived or gardened in Texas, I can't relate. But I definitely think it would break down a lot faster in a warm climate like that than up here in the frozen tundra.

We've gotten a lot of snow in the past 24 hours, currently under a blizzard warning with another 8-10 inches due today.

Karen

we have such mild winters with maybe one or two snows --and this year the 2 snows were this week!!we had been getting weather in the 60+ and so who would expect snow now!! i guess march did come in like a lion for both of us!

Smmers get pretty hot here and the winters have been mild. I cover my compost pile with black plastic off and on. Mainly when I add new fresh grass to kill the weeds. It decompses in a couple of months and is ready to use. I think my lasagna garden I have planned should work the same way.

I would like to try a lasagne bed (small one, not raised) and am wondering if newspaper, grass & straw will do it-maybe soil on top?? If not what else do I need to put on it & will 2 layers be OK if I don't want it raised??

Fairy, not to worry. It won't stay raised. It breaks down and smooths out. It's just like building a compost bin except your doing it on a flat surface.

I started mine and it seemed they were 2 foot tall 2 weeks ago, now they are down to about 8 inches and still decomposing.... I never thought they would stay tall.

Dont put soil on top, unless you are trying to create a raised bed, this is more like mulch or compost that you are putting on the top and then planting in it.

I started lasanga beds on my established rose bed last spring. I've added to them four time now. The soil was good to begin with but this is getting blacker and blacker every time and loaded with big earthworms. It's going to be interesting to see what's going to happen when my roses begin to wake up. :)

Doccat, how tall were your lasagna beds when you added to the existing bed?

Sigh, I answered this question on another thread, LOL It was about a foot tall, I piled on the good stuff. It's level with the ground now and I see I'm going to have another fight with the quack grass. How I hate that stuff

lol, I did see it on the other thread, just didnt think it was polite to mention wrong thread.... I'm just wondering what everyone on that thread is thinking! LOL!

Most of them know me, honey. I'm sure it's another doc's at again, LOL

OK-so I can then go ahead with my plan (maybe add some coffee too) but make sure it is about 12" high, then it will level out to the ground...also, how long does it take?? I wish I had some compost ready to go in it, but alas, I don't have any that is ready....

I am collecting materials as I go pretty much. Coffee is good and so is manure. You want to alternate C and N layers. Since I am doing mine in the early spring, I expect it'll be fairly composted by mid fall. I am going to what someone suggested on another thread. Put the coffee on top of the newspaper to encourage those worms. Then build from there.

weeds-I don't have poop, but can save my coffee grounds and my grass and the hay. I am going to try it on my 2 sides beds and see how it works out....from reading the other thread if I take and put all this down after i plant and make sure it keeps moist I should have great soil there in no time-those are my 2 most in need right now, then in the fall I can do the same with a couple others and continue it every year!! Hopefully this plan works & I understood it all correctly!!

That's my plan too! Try it out this spring and summer, if all goes well do some more in the fall. Don't you have a neighbor or friend or family member that has horses at least? Oh well, you can get some at Lowe's or something too. Sounds like you have they gist of it.

Fairy, I bought the lasagna book and used the ideas in there to build my lasagna bed. I laid the newspaper (very thick layers of sopping wet newspaper) and then coffee grounds, then compost, etc. I didnt have poop, so had to buy some at HD. Also didnt have any green material to add, so I bought bloodmeal at HD (expensive stuff!) and put that down instead. I had lots of brown stuff, so we were okay in that dept. Also, put layers of peat moss.
I created the beds, then just parted the layers and planted my plants. In my herb garden, I just sowed seeds on top and covered them lightly with peat moss. Everything is now sprouting !! I'll just keep adding to all the layers all year. It amazes me how empty my garbage cans are now! LOL! I never realized I was throwing away all that stuff, then buying compost etc to do gardening with! Learned alot on this site! Good luck. :o) Anjl

Does anybody know about using cotton fabric as a weed barrier in a lasagna bed? I know it won't decompose and IF I use it, I would have to dig down deep so the roots of my plants can continue to grow and not be blocked by the fabric.

I don't know that you need to use anything as a weed barrier in a lasanga bed. The newspaper or wet cardboard acts to smother out the weeds. You'll have a few, but not many.

I think you already answered your own question, you don't want to put anything down that will slow the roots system of your plants. And remember, you just keep adding to the bed, the more wet newspaper/cardboard that's added, the more weeds seeds can't germinate. Your plants get stronger and healthier. The healthier your soil the better your plants will be and will not be as susceptible to diseases, nor as vulnerable to insect pests.

You do need to do a bit of weeding, but nothing like you would do in a regular bed. Just a matter of pulling up the few that get thru the barriers.

Thanks doccat5.

If you add grass clippings to your lasagna garden, do you dry the clippings first? If not, will grass grow in your garden from the clippings? If I have nothing else to layer except leaves and grass clippings on my excisting lasagna garden, will it be alright? Do I need to add something else?