Does anyone have the new Acer palmatum 'Shirazz'?

What a beautiful setting your tree is in. Lovely planting.

Has anyone seen seed pod on their Shirazz? Mine has a bunch of them and they are a striking color as well. I'll grab a pic in the am.

Not sure if these grow from seed - i will be trying.

NO JM can be seed grown with any gurantee it will look like or be like it's parent plant ...I would assume this heaven sent tree ;>) is a product of sellected seedling from seeds grown of a Aka shigitasu sawa or similar tree ( it could be developed another way but this is how most newer cultuivars come about.)...it does NOT look like it's parent but often very similar if it were identical or it couldn't be promoted and sold as a differnt cultivar...if you notice this tree as well as most other JM's look similar to one or more other older JM varieties sometimes to the point ID is difficult.....some of course are more differnt than others.as the case "may" be with this one.and one reason why ID'ing a tree is a crap shoot...... you can grow the seeds but you cant give or sell either the seed or seedling or eventual tree to anyone calling it the same name and be either ethical or in anyway helpful in keeping this cultivar select..I would suspect Ebay idiot sellers will w/in a few years really mess up the whole JM field with unknowing folks buying seeds as well as seed grown trees that are not really what they are being sold as!!.. if you want to have fun growing seeds of course that is your choice.you may get something unusual..But be advised If you have just a few seeds you may not have much luck .and you really won't know it's true survival til the second growing season... .David

This message was edited Jun 7, 2008 7:39 PM

This message was edited Jun 7, 2008 7:46 PM

This message was edited Jun 7, 2008 7:48 PM

David - thanks for reply - i would only be planting them for my own enjoyment. the seeds i had from crimson queen and veridis came up and I noticed that the leaves on the little guys are different than tree they came from - at least some of them are.

I went down to a local nursery that has about 8 or 9 Acer palmatum 'Shirazz'. These were in 10 or 15 gallon sizes. I was looking to see a tree that looked like mattlwfowler's or wha tree among the 30 or 40 Japanese maples they had. It took me a while to find them, they were listed at $349. The trees were a washout, and looked worse than the worst bloodgoods they had. Zero pink color on any of the leaves, on close examination you can see that there is a paler color on the edge of the leaves but not even a trace of pink. All the leaves were a kind a dark greenish, and had a lighter edge.
I went there to get one of these since I had a 20% off coupon, but on seeing them I would not pay even $100 for the ones they had.
They had these in full sun but under 50% shade cloth, I do not know what that equates to.
In the above messages renlouis mentioned that these same trees in this nursery were impressive in the begining of April. So the reason for them looking like crap now is probably the sun exposure, may be not getting enough sun or too much sun. No scorch on the leaves though.

Lets see what happens when the TX summer kicks in. For now I will put this on the backburner.

xman

We're in the beginning stages of our first heat wave since I bought my Shirazz (although it may have been at the nursery near me during our first heat wave in May). I had already noticed a few leaves getting a little crispy around the edges, so I'll see how it looks after the 3 days we've already had at 90 degrees and the next two which will be close to 100, but I think I'm going to need to move it to a shadier area (right now it gets sun from early AM until about noon-1 PM, then shade for the rest of the day).

i will post a new pic of mine this week. a lot of it has turned green "inside" the tree to almost a varigated look to it. outside is still has the pink although not as much as early in the season.

hoosier since you had these last year what can we expect for color changes during the season?

we just had 4 days of high 90's even reports of 100 and no crispy leaves on the shirazz although the bloodgood behind it does which is strange since this has never happened to it and it began beofre the heat way.

i did water the shirazz for 3 of the 4 days.

The Shirazz here has, oddly enough, sustained no further damage than reported earlier, even though we have had repeated bouts of 90 temps and fierce winds. It also is about 60% varigated green with the rest still a nioce bright pink. The Purple Ghost, which receives filtered sun only in the morning, and no afternoon sun and almost no wind actually has more leaf burn. Go Figure! Back to the Shirazz, it does seem to be a tough one so far. Like wha, I keep it well watered.

wha: I planted the Shirazz late, late summer last year, so this is the first year for seeing how it fares. It was in good shape from the nursery last fall (potted) ,but had some crisp leaves. So far, it has performed beautifully. We're getting the heat now (high 80s), so time will tell. Great leaf appearance with strong variegation, with only very late afternoon shade.

I am wondering why the trees in TX do not have any pink anymore. Do they need direct sun vs thru the shade cloth? We have been in the mid to high 90s for a few weeks now.

xman

f6r22: I bet the amount of sun is more of a factor than the temperature in maintaining good color. Ask the nursery if they could take one of their maples and "experiment" by moving it into full sun, while keeping it watered well.

We've had some pretty toasty temps and mine is still just as pink as when I got it, so I agree that the sun is probably more important than temperatures in whether it goes green or not.

The sun is always the most important color factor with any JM .Not enough no much color.or be mostly green. but it is the combination of sun /summer heat and the lengh of such periods during the summer,that will burn them somewhat or to bits even BG's and other so called sun resistant cultivars especially when young as it ages it will do better but in too much sun it will still burn .if it is a red cultivar .it will be red and brown .pink cultivar...pink and brown ... etc....It is very unlikely in most areas cultivars planted in full sun will not have some summer damage ...If you like that location ...live with it as I do if you are into perfection and basically an unhappy person ...use morning sun afternoon shade for all but the most delicate cultivars...you'll still be unhappy for some reason or another but not as much with leaf burn ... and with very young plants leaf burn will happen even with morn sun ...This will not generally happen til mid summer in many areas and humidity "may play" a part but with young JM's it can happen anytime. As always trees grown under shade cloth are most suseptable and should be kept in shade for a bit and gradually brought out into sun over a period of 3-4 weeks. david

Here is a pic of mine from this morning

closer look - still thinking about moving it to a sunner spot - i lke the pick more than the green - i'll probably what until sept to decide

Wow, wha! I think the color is great. I wouldn't move it. It seems quite colorful as it is. Mine is also not as bright as the new spring foliage, but I think that is just normal. I'm satisfied with the slightly subdued color now. We'll see what July and August bring!

More sun at my latitude does not preserve the hot pink coloration. I'd get a shot but we are getting a much needed rain. The interior of the Shirazz here is mostly a green varigate. It is not unattractive. The top of the tree and most of the outward facing branches are green rimmed substantially with hot pink. This tree gets unfiltered sun from 1:30 on.

Midday sun has actually bleached most of the coloration out of the most exposed foliage for us here in SC. There are pinkish tones but much of the variegated margins have turned almost white, while the non variegated foliage has turned greenish with some pink overtones. The interior foliage is an odd mix of a creamy yellow green with pink splashes in the variegated areas with greenish non variegated areas. The new growth seems even brighter than the spring flush though, especially against the pale outer foliage.

Interesting comments. Could be that the southern sun may be harsher than that up north for the trees, or the parent trees vary some in coloration,

Laura

My Shirazz gets a little greener with less varigation each week. It's still very nice to look at.
There's still a fair amount of hot pink edging. The notable thing is that the hot pink is on the most exposed leaves. The change to all green is happening on the interior shaded leaves. Apparently latitude and sun intensity matter to this tree. While it is still early, with the worst of July & August heat to come, it has proved remarkably sturdy. Crisp spots from heat and high winds has been modest and not severe enough to detract from the trees appearance.

Mine is in the same condition less the crisp spots of Snapples. I was actually glad to hear that the sun appeared to wash out the pink. I will keep mine where it is. Still can't figure out why the BG behind it has crisp leaves - it has never happened before and does not seem to be as full as in past years. It has allowed me to see the branch structure better and I will be trimming off the bottom branches as it has a very appeaking structure. If I have read correctly this should be done in late July/August - correct?

I got crisping on a totally afternoon shaded Orido Nishiki and a Purple Ghost at the same time the much more exposed Shirazz did. Both are established trees with well developed root systems. Both the Orido Nishiki and the Purple Ghost are in very protected positions for both sun and wind exposure. Much, much more so than the Shirazz. We just had some really ugly sustained high winds, very unusual here. Is it that the that the roots of the rootstock couldn't transport enough water fast enough to the xylem or is the xylem deficient or mismatched, thereby limiting water uptake through the trunk to the leaves? Rootstock on a grafted JM is always such a mystery.

Can't say for sure about the xylem being mismatched, and I wouldn't say that it would be a "weaker" rootstock not being able to transmit moisture. I'm under the impression that JMs are simply not designed to take our climate as well as in Japan with their milder conditions. Their roots are exceptionally fibrous which makes me think they are simply not made to absorb the moisture required for cooling at higher temperatures, especially when wind is added which exponentially increases evaporation from both the soil surface and leaves. The rootstocks are generally stronger than the cultivar, but they do of course vary somewhat. The cultivars do play some role in how much scorch occurs, and perhaps (more time will tell) shirazz is a bit tougher than other variegates. Maybe this is related to how efficiently the leaves can cool themselves. Considering that it's parent is most likely geisha (which supposedly prefers drier conditions), it might prove to be fairly hardy (although I'm not personally sold on its beauty in my area).

Those are good points about the fibrous structure of the root mass and Japan's milder climate. I think you have the correct thinking on the variable susceptibility of JM's to leaf scorch. At this point the Shirazz here still is a good looking tree in the landscape. There is sufficient pink varigation to make it noticeable. Even the inner shaded green varigate leaves have their own appeal. But, it's still early. I have to say that so far I really like what I see. I'm also impressed with the branching structure. It doesn't appear that it's going to get a tangled or bushy appearance that will require pruning. There are four hurdles to come of course - July- August heat, fall color, winter hardiness and the ability to withstand late spring frosts. The latter here have been pretty devastating.

Two things Japan is 1200 miles long and is on the same l;attitude as Maine to Florida... I do not know whether JM's grow everywhere there or all JM's But Kyoto is a big Jm growing area ... it's lattitude is 35 degree 00 minutes and Wahalla SC is 34 degree and 76 minuters ...average temps are very similar japan a bit warmer in summer ( July) 80 Kyoto compared to 77 SC and it is also extreemly humid in Kyoto hazy and drizzel all the time like rain forest weather.

Two this spring here as I said earlier has been almost picture perfect JM growing weather except for just a few days of hot weather and that incessant wind mostly in the 70-85 range..although rain rain rain .I have nad little or no burned trees even those in full sunexcept some of the light yelow green varieties which have burned or started to and have been moved to shade. Also most reds have held their color much better than past years...and have not greened out. If the weather patterns change as they will ( probably) and we have a really hot humid spell I assume most will both green out and have leaf burn to varing degrees..At least the young ones. david

One might add that despite the name, "Japanese Maples" are not mostly native to Japan. Their homeland includes Japan, the Korean Peninsula (North and South), and China. The conditions, as pointed out, have a wide range of variation. My one-year experience in the Republic of Korea (South Korea), in about the middle of the Country, was definitely colder in the winter due to winds off Siberia, and wetter conditions year round than that of the U.S. East Coast where I live now.

Laura

Good point about the temperatures David. The major difference as you mentioned is that there is more rainfall in Japan. Our average rainfall (in a non drought period unlike the last two years) is about 140 mm while Kyoto's is about 200 mm if I'm not mistaken. I wouldn't say that Japan is even as ideal as parts of Oregon for JMs but whatever the combination of weather is, our trees get scorched pretty quick. For example, almost all of the laceleafs at the nursery have already shown tip burn, and a few waterfalls that were getting a bit of midday sun have shown sporadic leaf drop from scorch.

Thought I'd bump this up. My full sun Shirazz is handling the heat, drought and low humidity quite well so far. Minor crisping. Of course, it gets all the water it needs on a regular basis. There has been a small flush of mid season growth. It isn't excessive and hopefully will harden off before winter. Leaf color has gone completely to a light green, mid green and white varigate that I find attractive. This poor tree has also withstood 20% bark loss at the base. Most of the bark that was reattached actually took, so the loss is now minimal.

(The mess in the backgroud is due to road construction. Sheer heck and devastation. A neighbor's mature 12" caliper Weeping Higan was wiped out by an excavator bucket which snapped off 50% of the branches. The branches were not in the public right-of-way.)

Beautiful! I hate to think of what construction can do.

Laura

Glad that your 'Shirazz' is weathering the summer well. How sad about your neighbor's tree. :-(

Snapple glad your shirazz is doing good. i was not so sure i liked the color as mine was changing from the vibrant pink. now it is looking pretty good - kinda like a butterfly - can't wait to see what happens this fall. here is a pic of the foliage.

wha - the foliage on yours is definitely more attractive than mine. The difference being the amount of afternoon sun exposure I suspect.

My 'Shirazz' is holding up well, even now in the hottest, driest stretch of weather this summer. The foliage is kind of a cross between Snapple45's and Wha's trees. It's interesting how sun exposure seems to be important for summer color, or is it temperatures? Either way, this cultivar seems to be proving a winner!

new growth on the shirazz

a larger view - really love this jm!!

Very nice! Wish mine looked that good--it's gotten a little crispier around the edges every time we have a heat wave. It's not going to die or anything, but it certainly isn't looking its best right now. Next year I think I'll move it to a slightly shadier spot and see how it does. I've got a smaller 'Butterfly' in the same location that seems to be taking the heat better (although it's slightly shaded by Shirazz, so maybe that's cheating!)

my shirazz has not got crispy at all - although we've had al lot of rain this year. however behind it a bloodgood is struggling badly - i think it is more than the sun - should probably take some photo's and start a thread on it.

how does the butterfly compare to the shirazz in spring? i just bough a butterfly last friday and have it in a container for the rest of this year anyway.

The Shirazz here is doing extremely well. No rain for over six weeks so watering has been a must. The temps were in the low 90's for about a week and the tree gets the hot afternoon sun and it has very, very little crisping with good green - white or light green - dark green varigation. I'm really impressed. I took an 8 day vacation to TN and came home to find a Orido Nishiki nearly completely toasted. It's in almost full shade and was well watered before we left. The 8 days were in the upper 80's low 90's. It looks just trashed. It has buds for next year, a couple of small limbs left with green leaves and is definitely alive but I think I'd be happier if it wasn't. Oh how badly I wan't to yank it out and replace it with just about anything else. I'm so mad. But the Shirazz - just a super trooper.

I don't think Butterfly has any of the pink in it like Shirazz does. At least by the time I picked it up in late spring it didn't, it was green/cream and has stayed the same color ever since.

My poor Shirazz has a number of factors conspiring against it. I'm sure our lack of humidity helps make leaves crispier, plus although our normal temps are usually in the 80's, we do get sporadic heat waves where it gets anywhere from 95-105 for a few days. And on days when it's not hot, we have a lot of wind. I put it in an area that only gets morning sun and is fairly protected from the wind, but I guess that's still not quite enough!