I think my compost is too wet

when i was in there the other day..... (i have a tumbler) all the compost was sort of in large 'balls'

I tried to break them apart, and when i was planting some plants, just sort of mixed them into the soil.

the compost is not crumbly at all, but a sticky mess.

what am i doing wrong?

I do not have leaves to put in since i'm in a newer subdivision, one with out a lot of trees.

I've put in shredded paper and phone books [white pages only] but it still seems so wet.

Gosh, short of adding more dry matter, my only other suggestion would be to dump it all out, let it air out in the sun for a few hours and load 'er back up. The problem with putting a lot of dry stuff in is that it really should be balanced with green stuff, which is typically moister.... unless you let it dry first, too. Coffee grounds come to mind, even some r dirt, in limited quantities (I'm thinking about the potting soil you might be taking out of outdoor pots right now?). But stuff with good "body", if you can get it.

Good luck - worse comes to worse, just leave the door open on a sunny day... or two.... or...

thanks cat.... I think i'll start with leaving the door open, since my dog like to roll in such things. [he's weird]

LOL - I'm afraid that makes him awful darn normal.

One of my favorite stories when I was just learning about compost was a gal who was *so* happy - she had gotten a load of "zoo poo" - all this exotic manure from the city zoo and could hardly wait until she spread it on her garden... until her 3 or 4 long haired dogs went out and blissfully rolled in it. Now I see my own dogs occasionally take on a pile of horse manure. But they don't come inside other than the basement, so....

Check your local Starbucks for coffee grounds to add as well. They usually give em away free. Sound like you just need to let it "air" out a bit.

yes, i know, my son works there.

i had left the "door" open a few days and added some 'dry stuff'
it's not as wet as it was, but it's still not "crumbly".

How long has your 'stuff' been in there? It sounds like it hasn't completely broken down yet...?

i started my composting last august (2006)
it's always looked pretty wet.

before i found "Daves" I had asked on a composting "group" on yahoo, about when the compost is done.
and the answer i got was "when it's done"
so i really had/have no idea what "done" compost looks like.

there are times that i have used what is in the 'tumbler' and it does not mix well with soil ... most of it is in "ball" form.

i'd take a photo, but i'm currently out of town.



Terese

If it's only to the coarse stage it's still good stuff. Please do send pics when you get the chance, I think that will help greatly.

will do ... i'll be home in a few days

I do my composting in piles on the ground. Here's a photo showing 3 different piles. The foreground pile is left over from last year. It's texture is like screened topsoil--very dark and crumbly. The middle pile is one I started this fall and has not started to break down yet. You can see the greens and browns. The pile in the background is this summers. It has started to break down nicely.

early_bloomer

Wow, looks great!

here's my compost. I have one of those "tumblers"
this was taken after I "rolled" it.

Terese

Oh boy, yummy, yummy, going to black gold!! I'll bet it smells wonderful!

>>I'll bet it smells wonderful!

ROFLMAO!! smells, you bet it does. my dog loves it, but then he likes to roll in decaying stuff along with other nasties.

so, i take it, it's on it's way to being good compost.

I can relate I have 5 Bostons, but their either on a leash or in their fenced run. The last time 2 of them went "exploring" we had to bail them out of jail! LOL It looks like you are close to getting to some of the finer stuff, but that looks like great coarse compost, which will certainly work well. I really am not that much of a purist and if I need compost for an area, coarse works just fine.

doccat ..... the base of my tumbler is hollow and collects "tea"
I find i use the tea more than i use the compost .... but one day, when it's finally ready ... i'll use it all up.

thanks for all your input.

Terese

No problem, I use a five gallon bucket with a "bag" of coarse compost wrapped in cheesecloth. I just plunk it in and let it "steep". I mainly use that for my houseplants which love it. And if you use it all up, you can always make some more! Black gold!

Nice pictures and replies. I've read it your compost should have the consitency of a wrung out sponge. Anyone here of anything different?

Dean_W

Yup, to my experience that's a little too dry.

I prefer a square of silk, with a playful spring breeze blowing merrily... yes...

Dean_W, that's about right. Ok PCat, I'll go recycling denim in the compost, but silk, don't you think we'd have a worm strike or something? grin

Any all natural fiber can be composted. Cotton, wool, linen, silk, hemp. So if you haven't worn it, can't fit into it and no one wants it compost it! Unfortunately most of my clothes are synthetics or blends. Can't afford the really good stuff! But those old cotton undies that have seen better days might be moving into the compost heap soon...But I imagine one should remove any elastic first. And I guess I better bury them in the center of the pile in the middle of the night so the people upstairs don't peer over the balcony and ask my why I am burying my not so delicates...Hmmm, can't call them greens and really don't like the sound of brown undies!

Terese, I think tumblers are supposed to be "free draining", having liquid build up inside the tumbler doesn't sound right to me. Are there maybe plugged drain holes? I thought you had to hose the mix just so to keep just moist. Unless the "tea" was somewhere below the container itself. Even then, I think that would make the mix too wet if it drained "tea" Am I wrong?
Carol

Carol,

yes, mine does have a collection base for the tea.... I do clean out the "holes" every now and then with a stick, to scape the yuck out of it.

this is what i have
http://www.cleanairgardening.com/tumcombincom.html

and i guess i wouldn't call it 'liquid build up' in the tumbler .... just wet. My neighbor, bless her heart, adds to my tumbler, but its usually like huge rids of melon, potato clippings, i think i saw a whole yam one time, along with a chicken leg bone [which totally grossed me out] but i do know she does not add any "browns" -- so that is why i think mine is so 'wet' but -- since i really know nothing, ok, next to nothing about compost, and do not know what "done" looks like, I was just assuming mine was not working right -- but then doccat said i'm on my way to some good stuff .... i guess it's just a longer process than i was led to believe.

in the advertisements they say, oh dump it in and in 2 months time..... yadda yadda....

I will just keep using it as needed .... but i really love the tea, as do my plants.

thanks for your input.

Terese

Terese, If you read the really fine print on the directions, it says if you load them up full on day one, in two months you will have compost, depending on what you put in. If you use it like I do and add stuff as I have it, It just keeps working a little at a time. Have you noticed how it is reducing in the space it takes up? That means it is working, just slower. Mine is like that, I just keep filling it up and a week later I fill it some more. My thought is that 2 months after I quit putting fresh stuff in, it should be closer to compost. C4

thanks Cathy.

and yes that does make sense. I have one of those lil buckets i keep in kitchen cabinet ... it would get filled with coffee grounds, veggie peelings, etc, and dumped a few times per week.

Maybe i'll try something different this next season.... the thing is, i do not have room on my property for a composter, so that is why i got the Tumbler .... i put it way out back by the "highway" fence. Figure, i didnt want anything unsightly since it wasn't on my property.

Maybe i'll try to clear out an area and do a fenced in kinda composter too. We will see... it's just more work on property that isnt even mine.

Terese...I'm 'Johnnie Lately' here, but I did a quick cruise of your thread and I didn't see any mention of tossing in some peat moss to absorb the extra moisture. This stuff is like a sponge and it probably won't take as much as you think.

I just finished "Lasagna Gardening" after hearing about it here in DG and I was curious as to why every other layer was followed by a four inch layer of peat moss. That has to get expensive, but I think one of those large bails from Lowe's or Home Depot would do the trick, and probably help your compost in other ways as well.

I use peat moss exclusively as my indoor worm compost media. Over the years I have tried all sorts of media, but I find peat moss the easiest to work with. I soak the peat over night in hot water (from the bottom of my water heater), and the next day I use a 4-inch aquarium net to ring out as much moisture as I can.

The purpose of soaking is to remove as much acid as possible before using it as a worm media. I can stir in a few balls of still damp peat into a worm tub and soak up any excess moisture immediately.

However, you shouldn't need to soak the peat moss before adding it to your tumbler. I believe you will be surprised at how fast it makes your compost nice and loose again.
I have not personally tried this since I don't have a tumbler, but I thought maybe you could get some feed back from other DG'ers if I mentioned it.

Hope this helps Terese.

morgan

Hi morgan, I do lasagna and have never read to use peat moss. I only use what I can find, cardboard, newspaper, hay/straw, grass clippings, chopped leaves, bunny poop, and water between each layer. Don't spend money if you don't need to, C4

Hey C4...maybe it was just my imagination, but I'm sure that is what the author of "Lasagana" gardening was avocating. When I filled one of my outdoor compost bins with horsemanure/leaves/grass clippings a couple of weeks ago I added half a bail of peat moss and hated doing it. I usually go through a bail a year for my four indoor vermiculture compost bins, but I could ill aford to lasagna garden if I had to place a four inch layer between every other layer. Like you, I don't get it. I wish someone could explain the reasoning behind the author's recomentation.

morgan

mraider3, maybe they have stock in a peat moss supply company?

If a layer of Peat were needed there would sure be a lot fewer lasagna beds out there! Lasagna beds are simply cold composting areas done in situ. All the normal things you put in compost can be used and the worms and dampness do all the work.

Morgan, I read the book but guess I don't remember. Maybe it is a way to hold moisture if you live where it is dry. I'm going to look back at some threads to see what has been said, not that I will change anything, haha. I forgot to mention that i've added coffee grounds when I've been able to get them. They smell better than the bunny poop.

Ya C4 ... I got the message too on coffee grounds ... I'm back to keeping them for my out door compost bins ... worms may eat them, but they are useless as a food source...guess that's why you can't gain weight just drinkin coffee!

M3

Well, I did a little searching, and it seems that some use peat moss when they plan to plant into it immediately and it is only 3 or 4 layers thick. Since I'm not planning to use mine until spring, it won't matter.

Hi Terese,

From my experience, while I agree that your compost is on its way, it cannot possibly be 'done'; so that's your 1st 'problem'. Finished compost is crumbly, and cannot be formed into balls that hold their shape when agitated - no matter how wet. Just to get an idea as to what the finished product should look/feel like, you might consider buying a single bag of compost from the local home center or nursery. Around here a 40lb bag can be obtained for as little as $1.30 (Lowe's). Be aware, however, that such inexpensive 'compost' is actually a blend of compost with sand and clay, a fact that is revealed only in the minute print hidden somewhere on the bag. A smaller bag of the real stuff will be considerably more expensive. Your municipality may also sell or give away composted yard 'waste' (grass clippings, leaves, tree limbs, etc.); ours sells rich, wonderful compost for $1/bag or $10/truck load.

I have the very same tumbler. Frankly, I hate it and will probably get rid of it. I've had mine for 4-5 yrs. Not only does mine not make finished compost in 2 months, but it actually takes longer, much longer, than my wire bin: http://www.gardeners.com/Wire-Bin-Composter/default/34-646RS.prd or the lasagna piles I've built in the vegetable garden in winter. Honestly, I don't bother to turn it anymore, but for the 1st year I turned it daily and it still took way too long to make finished compost.

I'm afraid that I must agree with Carol. If I don't use the tea that collects below fast enough to keep it from overflowing, it does keep the compost too wet (by capillary action). Being too wet doesn't keep the material from breaking down, but it does block air flow and may shift the process more towards an anaerobic one which does not smell good at all.

Along the lines of what C4 said, with any composter or compost pile, at some point you have to stop adding stuff to allow it all to get finished. Ideally, you need 3 piles or cages: 1 you are adding to, 1 that is cooking, and 1 with finished stuff to use, or at least 2, the 1st 2. Another thing mentioned in the fine print on the tumbler is that it doesn't work well if over filled, more than about 1/2 full.

I don't have a lot of space for a composter either, and I didn't want an ugly eye sore in the middle of my flower garden. Ironically, I have found that the wire cage blends in better with the surrounding foliage while the tumbler stands out as 'foreign'.

As to the idea of mixing greens and browns, those recipes refer to the ideal mixtures needed to achieve a hot mixture which breaks down quickly. You don't have to have any particular mix. It just takes longer and may not smell so 'sweet' in the process. I don't have a good 'natural' source of browns either but have learned some easy substitutes my favorite of which is to grab 1 or 2 (or a trunk full) of those clear bags of leaves from the curb! You can get all the browns you can use that way. (I also love to grab bags of grass clippings in summer. While not browns, they are great for the pile.

For years I used the lasagna approach in any unused part of my vegetable garden. I just piled leaves over newspaper and cardboard and then buried kitchen waste under the leaves. I never used any peat moss, and mine always broke down beautifully by spring (which is only a few months around here). Along those lines, when making compost (especially in a tumbler where it is not in contact with the soil), while not a necessity, it is a good idea to add a small amount of finished compost to each newly started batch. This acts as an inoculator to add live cultures to the mix and get the process off to a good start.

This message was edited Nov 30, 2007 12:18 AM

Well Cath...I've been cruisin around several threads here trying to pick up some new ideas on composting. Last year my winter 4' x 8' x 4'd compost bin was exclusively horse manure collected from a neighbor. With a little turning and water it was ready by spring and suitable for whatever use I had in mind. This year I scrounged in few leaves and grass clippings along with the peat moss and some coffee grounds for the pile. As you say there isn't much reason to go out and purchase other additives, but I did see another thread mentioning alfalfa as a heat source.

I knew a guy who raised African night crawlers that used alfalfa (w/o oil) to feed his worms. He purchased 50# bags from a local CoOp for a fairly reasonable price. So I tried a bag for my worm cultures but it molded before I had used half the bag. Since we have twice as many horses as people in the valley I would presume Alfafa would be readily availabe, and inexpensive, since a lot of it is grown here using irrigation.

My garden is now 60' x 90' and I am looking for ways to turn horse manure into a usable mulch/compost as quickly as possible. So I experiment with a many ideas as I can come up with here on DG. There never seems to be and end to the great ideas!

I'm working on several neighbors to save me their grass clippings for next year. I'm concerned that a number of them use ChemLawn or various chemicals to treat their lawns. I would presume that their grass clippings would contain substances I would not want in my garden.

These are some of my concerns about compost additives. I feel certain a more thorough search in this particular forum will yield answers to these questions. Fortunately I have four more months to figure it out.

morg

Hey guys, I gotta chime in here. These are 2 different methods.
Composting in a pile or bin is one method, using the lasanga method is another method working toward the same result. The lasanga method is more like sheet composting and is great for smothering weeds and encouraging those lovely worms to come to the buffet. There's no "heat", but it does break down fairly rapidly.
You do not have to use peat moss for either. In fact, I only use peat moss for additional amendment in areas I haven't "worked" in a long time for new plantings. Especially with roses, trees and shrubs. I'm too cheap to use peat moss when I have all these lovely "free" ingredients to use in my bins.
mraider3, I'd be cautious about using grass clippings if the neighbors are using herbicides for weeds especially. I'm not sure the pile gets hot enough to destroy the toxins. Worth checking into. There's no reason you couldn't just spread your horse manure directly on your garden area. It will compost it's own self over the winter. You could then use your compost bin's contents for side dressing etc. By all means add the alfalfa to the pile, leaves if you can get them, newspaper, kitchen scraps, etc. Your basically making a feast for the worms, which you obviously already have down to a science. Please d-mail me if you have additional questions. I think there's confusing because we're using compost in the title of the method we're using.
cathy4, there is no reason you cannot use "coarse" compost. And you're right it really is easier if you seperate the piles, I'm too lazy and not that much of a purist. I will pull some of the bottom of one of my piles, it's usually still has bits of leaves, etc that show. Finished compost looks like black dirt and smells of the earth. I have read that using coarse compost takes longer because the compost has to finish breaking down. I'm not sure I buy that one. I know from practical experience that once I put that compost down, within a couple of days I have worms in that soil and it's not all one's I've brought from the compost bin, evidently they phone their friends and relatives with their new address when they move! Please don't get hung up on all the techno jargon, and ratios and all that jazz. Bottom line, is it working? If it's not, then keep tinkering till it does. The whole purpose of this is to improve your soil, good healthy soil, makes for healthy plants and a healthier you both in body and mind.

I would be wary of adding fabric/clothing [made of organic material] unless you are absolutely certain that the dye used in the coloring is non-toxic. Many dyes contain toxic metals and such.

hey doccat5...I hear you on the grass clippings...The only clippings I used this year were from my yard and the neighbor, like myself, that doesn't bother with the fancy lawns. Of course my other neighbor's lawns look like putting greens, and ours...well you can guess.

In the fall after crops are out, I put horse manure directly on the garden and disk it in immediately. I don't touch it again until spring when I'm ready to plant. Still some buscits, but that has never been a problem. My outdoor compost bins get the winter production of horse manure.

Lasagna or sheet gardening did not appealed to me, but I did get great ideas from reading the book. To me it sounds little like the no-till principal of gardening used by a number of Kansas farmers when I lived there. Most of the farmers I knew that did that had really poor soil conditions.

Unfortunately there are zero worms in our soil or rock dust as I call it. Once the rocks were removed the only thing left was a sandy-clay that compacted like cement. I spent three years clearing rock and conditioning the 'soil' before I could use it.

I'm not sure what the correct terminology would be for indoor worm bins. The media I use is strictly peat moss, and I blend kitchen scraps (mainly peelings and egg shells) with gravel syphoned aquarium water (new idea from DGer) for worm feed. From four worm bins (20 to 30 gal plastic tubs) I collect a 30 gallon trash barrels worth of worm casings (or spent media) for germination and potting up seedlings.

Early each spring the two oldest bins get mixed into my out door compost bins...worms and all, where they get a month or so to digest the "coarse" compost as you referred to it. I have used this coarse compost liberally in the garden as mulch without any ill affects and my plants look fine. Perenials like rhubarb, chives, and strawberrys improve overnight when I work it into the ground around the base of the plants in early spring.

Some red wigglers do manage to survive the winter in areas of heavy mulching and my raised beds, however, they revert back to the small dark red size when I first collected them from a neighbors leaf bin more than 40 years ago. The adult worms in my indoor bins are the size of typical garden worms. When our kids were younger we used them for pan fish bait. By the age of 6 they were accomplished little fishermen.

Anyway docat5,the question you raise in my mind about my outdoor horse manure compost bins is: Will the addition of leaves, grass clippings, peat moss, alfalfa, or coffee grounds, improve the compost, or will they eliminate some of the fertilizer value, or both?

morgan

oh wow, did this jump over night.

a lot for me to absorb.

Morgan -- thanks for being "morgan come lately" great stuff.

Cheryl - as usual, thanks. and i sort figured you may have shopped at that same place as i have the same refuse container -- the ones Dennis was getting into.

I will certainly be looking into things like Peat Moss and getting some compost from the store.

if my neighbor does all that she says she's going to be doing this spring -- she and I will be busy, and needing more compost and even doing lasagna gardening [i mentioned it to her early this Fall]
she's a gal that has so many plans, but most doesnt get done because she expect her DH to help. [he does most the work and she supervises] but great gal though.

Terese

Good reading! I thought about adding Peat Moss to my pile, but I was to cheap to purchase a bail, when I had all the free stuff to add. I'm trying to keep it as economically feasible as possible. I can completely understand adding Peat Moss for the worms. I know that in the past, when I bought worms for fishing they were in a stryofoam container w/ moistened Peat Moss.