Do we have any rose aficionados?

I started a thread in the Rose forum: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/771121/

I forgot to mention, in my thread, that I garden organically, so I want something that doesn't require the Big Guns for pest & disease control.

Please offer your suggestions, if you've got them. Thanks.

Wrightie, make sure next spring I give you some cuttings from the antique moss rose I have here. It's tough as nails, never has any disease problems and the scent is absolutely wonderful. Not as tall as some climbers but the one I have is well over my head now.

I also have an antique rose Dorothy Perkins that climbs the trees in the woods out front. I can dig you a rooted plant of those. Also very tough and scoffs at diseases and insects. Gets about 20 feet tall or taller.

I love roses but I have to make sure I don't grow them anywhere near the black walnuts and I use a raised bed with improved soil because the alkaline soil here kills them. Some of the newer roses aren't hardy enough for our usual spring cold snaps after warm weather either.

Oh, wow, I need to go look those up, Hart. Thanks! What color is the 'antique moss rose'?... at this moment in time (could change!) I'm leaning toward a white or pale yellow flower, but I need to give color a lot more thought. :~)

The moss rose is a dark pink. It has a wonderful old fashioned rose scent and very strong too. The Barbara Perkins has little, light pink flowers that look very similar to Fairy roses.

I also have some New Dawn, which is a very, very pale pink. Pretty darned close to white. You're welcome to cuttings from that one too. It's by far the most vigorous rose I have and a heavy bloomer. Very tough and more disease and insect resistant than most newer roses but not as much as the other two. It's one of the most popular climbers because of its toughness.

There's a White Dawn climbing rose you might want to look at. It was bred from New Dawn and I think has a lot of the same toughness.

You'll have to encourage all of them to climb the tree except for the Barbara Perkins. Just plant that one close to the tree and it will climb on its own. Also I don't know how much shade the newer roses will tolerate. The moss and Perkins seem to do fine with a certain amount of shade.

Gosh, I love a strongly fragrant rose... mmmmmmmm

Let me show you a couple more shots of my problem. The previous owner removed the branches on all of our Oaks to an absurdly high height, so all I see when I look at our place is our ugly square box of a house and TREE TRUNK. The tree needs a lot of vertical interest, so a long bloom time would be important. Height is also important, of course.

This is the view of the Western side of the tree. As you can see from these photos, the rose would not have much protection from cold Northern winds.

Sorry about the state of the long grass ... I'm the one who normally 'tends to the grounds' so DH isn't as attentive to these things... :~)

Okay, Designers ... talk to me about the colors that you envision. I was thinking about white because it seems like it would do a great job of drawing the eye downward (mine always want to climb the tree), would give the impression of more depth or texture (I think), and would complement the colors already on the property. Am I off my rocker?

This message was edited Sep 14, 2007 5:12 PM

Actually, I think the high canopy is nice. LOL The roses should be able to get plenty of light.

There's no reason why you couldn't plant one of each planted in a circle around the trunk. I'd say definitely go with the New Dawn for long bloom time and oodles of blooms. Mine is getting its last flush of blooms right now and it starts in early June.

The other two only bloom once but the moss is definitely worth growing for the scent and the Perkins blooms for several weeks starting usually in mid to late June. The Perkins also has lots and lots of flowers. Be sure to open those windows when the moss is blooming.

I think you could easily get 20 feet from the New Dawn. Of course like all climbers the more horizontal growth around the trunk the more flowers. That doesn't seem to matter with the Perkins.

The moss actually gets another flush of blooms some years when it's getting lots of rain but it doesn't get that often here.

All three of these are very hardy. I don't think it would matter if they get north winds in the winter. I've never bothered to pull them down and mulch them in the winter and I'm a whole zone colder than you are.



This message was edited Sep 14, 2007 5:18 PM

This is a pretty good photo of the color of the New Dawn. This color fades after the first flush to pretty close to white. A lot of catalog photos are way darker than it really is.
http://www.gardenvines.com/catalog/new-dawn-climbing-rose-p-144.html

http://www.rdrop.com/~paul/mosses/pelisson.html this is pretty close to the color of the moss rose

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/79527/ good shot of Perkins, which is too dark in some of the photos here

Have you thought about adding other trees/shrubs to give some height to the plantings below the oak and soften the view of the brick? Maybe something multi-trunked, like a lilac or a crepe myrtle... or even something a little shorter but with a similarly soft, sweeping shape, like a butterfly bush or weigela. You might be able to extend the bed around the oak a bit, or you might think about planting something near the corner of the walkway and driveway.

I do love the idea of a climbing rose or two going up that trunk! Or how about adding a clematis or two to the mix, so you'd have more blooms all summer long?

Hi, Critter. Yes, my problem right now is that nearly everything out there was planted within the past three years, so whether I like it or not I'm simply going to have to wait on the height problem that you're talking about. There is a dwarf crepe myrtle near the road, beyond the Oak in the second photo, above. I planted a peach tree justs last weekend as an understory tree btwn the boxwoods and abelia. I'm trying not to get too crazy in the front yard because I prefer a slightly more formal entry.

As I think I mentioned in my link above, I have two clematis already trained on the trunk, but we obviously have similar tastes! Speaking of clematis, I will eventually have clematis weaving through the ugly yews and up the bignonia capriolata (maybe)... I prefer to save my Cottage Garden tendencies for the back and side yards.

I think that I've got a good handle on the rest of the bed, but simply need time and Mother Nature to cooperate. This house and yard were thoroughly neglected and bare when we bought it four years ago and, as you can see, we have a looooong way to go still. We have recently begun working with an architect to resolve the building issues... that's another mountain all together. But, it's all worth it because I love my neighborhood. :~)

To see how the house looked when we bought it, look here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/712448/
So, do you have any ideas on which rose(s) or color(s)?

This message was edited Sep 14, 2007 8:18 PM

Sorry, I failed to click the link, so I didn't see about the clematis. I have lots of plants that will take a while to get anywhere close to their mature height... they look more like little weeds than shrubs or trees at this point... so I can relate!

I've tried to keep my front beds more formal also, by repeating textures and thinking in terms of "sweeps" of color rather than indulging in my usual jumble.... looks like you're doing much the same!

Oh, realized I didn't answer your question... I think you've gotten some good suggestions already, and as for colors I think you can go with whatever appeals to you... White or pale colors would be more neutral but would still brighten up that trunk, but since you don't have a lot of other colors going on in front you can pretty much do whatever you like... I like the idea of making that lovely tree trunk even more of a focal point!

My favorite rose is probably my 'Zephirine Drouhin'... we've been talking about that one (and about 'Don Juan') over in the cottage gardening forum lately. ZD will bloom even in shade, is nearly thornless, is fragrant, and is tough... for me, it has been only minimally bothered by japanese beetles or blackspot, and I've seldom bothered to spray or drench it. Despite my neglect, it has flourished!

A neighbor of mine is *very* knowledgeable on roses, especially the old ones. I posed my question to him as well and here's what he wrote back in email:

"The hands-down favorite for growing into trees is the Lady Banks' Rose, Rosa banksiae. It's evergreen, semi-double cream in the most widely available cv but also comes in yellow ('Lutea') and a single flower (my personal favorite). The leaves drop off when the temp hits about 10 degrees, but with protection of the roots probably is hardy here. It is a mostly single bloomer with occasional flushes of flower during the summer months. It will grow well into the tree; they often are 30 feet or more." -- I'm more than a little excited about the evergreen and height aspects of this rose, but fragrance could be a bummer I fear. I couldn't find anything about it being fragrant, but I'll research it some more tomorrow.

As for the sweeping lines and textures, yes, I'm a big fan of that style. I'm awaiting a couple plant orders that will allow me to create more color contrasts to this front bed. I like masses of the same color, and texture.

Evergreen! Yea! You can add other things for fragrance.... I've even got a luscious rose scented geranium (not hardy, but easy to overwinter).

I looked it up in PF, and there are some comments indicating that it might be fragrant after all... http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/53223/

:-)

I used to grow several different scented geraniums back when I worked in a great herb shop... I wish I could have taken everything with me. UGH. I have a long way to go to get my herb selection back up to snuff. *sniff*

Wrightie - I planted about 15 roses this spring and I am having great luck with all of them - both "regular" size and vining - not doing anything specific - I used a systemic right after they were planted and have had no pest problems - I am just like you - have no rose knowledge - blessed are the ignorant in this case