LIME? Sacraficed pool for IRIS bed.

My kids outgrew the above ground pool (24' diameter) so it has been sacraficed for an iris bed. Under the pool the ground was dug up and a 2-3" layer of lime was spread and a 2-3" layer of sand was added on top of the lime, all of which covers good ol' kentucky clay. I tested the soil underneath all the lime & sand and the ph is neutral, but it has not been rained on. even the edges that should have received wetness test around neutral. Obvious questions are should I keep the lime & sand and mix it all up with about 5" of top soil & compost - which the county extension expert says - or is it too much lime and/ or sand? now is a critical time to solicit advice... many many iris are on their way. thanks, Shawna

I would go with the advice of the county extension agent. Generally, they are right on about local conditions. I have learned amazing and practical stuff from mine.

That sounds like a tremendous amount of lime to have added, esp to a neutral soil. What was the theory behind adding all of that lime in the first place? Personally, I'd play it safe and remove the lime. Once you've put something into the soil, you've committed to it, and there's no turning back no matter how much damage it may have done.

Depending on the type of lime you added, it can take up to a year for it to affect your soil pH. There are faster acting limes and slower acting limes. There are limes that are intended for agricultural and garden use, and there are limes that will poison your soil and any plants it comes into contact with.

I recommend you contact several agronomists and discuss your plans with them to get second and third opinions before you integrate all of that lime into your soil.

Laurie

Thanks Laurie, that is my sense too. generally our soil leans more acidic, so some lime seems ok, but it frightens me to think I'll plant 100 iris ontop of potential CONCRETE> .... The theory was that the lime would prevent tree roots from popping through the liner of the pool. the sand on top was a further preventative measure and I assume padding for the liner as well. I'm doing more research on it now, but my gut tells me to grab the shovel (or hire the guys) and start over. thanks.

Sand is often recommended to improve clay soil but in actuality it does no good unless it's very coarse. Actually, I think even coarse sand does very little. What you should be digging in is a lot of organic matter. The iris experts here can tell you about what to use in the way of organic matter better than I can.

And, yeah, that sounds like a huge amount of lime. Even if your soil was acid I would imagine that much would send it off the charts alkaline.

Given the purpose of the lime (inhibiting root growth), I'd also wonder if it was an agricultural product to begin with... it may be a form that's not suitable to add to soil, even if it weren't such a huge amount.

You might be able to get away with just layering topsoil and compost over the sand, without disturbing or mixing in the underlying lime... but I'd say the safer course is probably just to remove the underlayment entirely. Maybe you can hire a kid with a bobcat to scoop it all into a truck and take it away...

Your new iris bed will be luscious! 24 feet in diameter is a lot of space! Do you have a plan for laying it out? Be sure to leave room for some paths... you'll want to be able to wander through the garden easily to get a closeup look at all your new beauties!

YESYES!! there is a big round dream in my yard waiting to come true!!! I recently visited the Missouri Botanical Garden in St. Louis, known to locals as Shaw's garden. It's huge and amazing for anyone who can make the trip when the iris are blooming. All the daylily (thousands) beds are in semicircles and the iris are in circles. When I came home, I talked the kids into giving up the pool with the idea that one day we'd get an inground pool in another part of the yard. (((one day.... I'm thinking fountain or sculpture in the center. I want a bed like Wanda's that goes from cool blue and violet in spring to hot reds & oranges in the summer. Check my other thread to see photos she sent me of that madness! The lime for root prevention is not a good sign is it?... duh. thanks guys.

Shawna;
You might want to double check your ph. The Louisville Area Iris Society reports the water here in Lou is 9 which is very very limey.
We are sitting on top of a huge primeval ocean fossil which was pure lime.

I made the mistake two years ago of buying alledged top soil from Nugent sand and gravel company. It was a mixture of sand and clay. It is like concrete though I am amending it with gypsum and compost which is improving it. Dont mix sand with the clay around here.

John

Hi John. do you mean city water or rain water? I wonder if I have a faulty meter because everywhere I stick the thing it shows really really acid. I even bought lawn lime for the raised beds and was reading up on how to apply it. (any suggestions about that are welcome) This is why I'm confused about whether to keep the lime in the new bed here in our area. ((( I mean acid, like 4 and 5, esp. in shady areas. even in raised beds with good soil mix from Thiennemans or Otte's. The anamended clay reads not much different. and dang, I already made a blue & white iris bed with sand added - really course - but also with lots of compost and organic nutrients. by the way, you think MOLES are attracted to bone meal? (((another thread....

I guess I should get a clump down to the county extension for testing. but I have so many different soils... if I brought my soil in for testing, should I bring the amended good stuff? or the clay way down under, or both?

so you're in the iris society? i gotta get in on that. thanks for the hit on my thread neighbor. best, shawna

You should definitely take a soil sample in for testing at your county extension service or a farm service. You take a sample from the soil surface down 6" (take the entire sample, not just the soil at the bottom of the hole). Collect samples from several different spots in the bed you want tested, then mix the samples together for a representative sample of the entire bed. If your beds are different (different soil types or amended differently), then sample each bed separately and have them tested separately. I think you need about a cup of soil for a test, but you should check with the testing lab about that.

You can send in multiple tests, just make sure you mark the location of where you took each sample. And of course you have to pay for each test. I'd certainly get the unamended areas tested so you know what you're dealing with.

We have the same exact kind of soil here because of an ancient seabed. In fact my yard is full of fossil rocks with tiny seashells and so forth. Some areas are better and actually have neutral soil but most areas are extremely alkaline.

The shady areas could be more acid because of leaf or pine needle fall under them. Or your meter could be off. The tests from the cooperative extension will give you an accurate ph as well as tell you what amendments your soil does need.

It's also possible you live in a pocket with different soil. You don't have to travel far from here to find soil that's very acid, very gummy clay totally different from the rocky, alkaline soil I have.

thanks folks. I just found out the county extension is just down the hill on MY STREET!!!
I'll try to pencil it in that soil test.... ha! I appreciate all the help. here's the sandpit.

which sits next to this and joins the small bit of full sun in my yard O' big trees. ps. the guys are coming Tuesday to pull out all the lime & sand and add a truckload of good topsoil with compost. whew. bring on the rhizomes mr. Schreiner. Thank you so much Laurie, I would have (((perhaps reluctantly) trusted the county extension agent, but after discussing it, I really wouldn't want to have had to dig up 100 shriveled iris and pull out 6 tons of concrete out of that bed next Hades hot summer. especially when I've tried to be so careful about good homes for all my other plants this my first newbie season. commitment was the key word... Laurief from way up yonder STRIKES again!

If you only knew how I know about the serious and long-lasting mistakes a person can make amending a bed, you wouldn't be nearly so impressed with me. ;-)

Laurie

... maybe if you had joined the garden forum sooner...

((( ... laughing .... out loud

One pretty good way to tell your ph is if you have hydrangeas. Do they bloom pink ( alkaline) or blue ( acid)? I bought one of those ph test meters and it told me that my soil was neutral to slightly acid. I didn't believe a word of it because I **knew** soil in New Mexico was alkaline. Then I put in an Endless Summer hydrangea which bloomed a lovely blue. I haven't had my soil tested. Everything goes great if I add a ton of compost.

I have one pink and one blue... go figure. my soil may be as confused as me...
though I believe these are true to their intended color. you're right, I don't trust the meter anymore. I just bought those home testers where you get about a tablespoon of soil and add water & capsules of powder. anyone had any experience with those?

I don't think those are very reliable either. Get your soil tested at the extension office. If you stop by they'll give you as many soil test containers as you want. Or if you call they'll mail them and all you have to do is mail them back out.

Here at least you can't drop your soil off, you have to mail it to the main extension office for the state.

This message was edited Sep 16, 2007 5:28 PM

Soulja;

I am talking about the city water. You might want to check the louisville area iris society at www.lais-ky.org . ( I think thats right).
I used to belong to it but have not for years. They meet at a church on Frankfort Ave.

Soulja,

Your new iris garden will be gorgeous! Your photos are beautiful! I love your fence and your walk way. Is your fence made of western red cedar? Be sure to show us pictures of your new garden as it develops.

It was great of your kids to give up the pool. You raised them right!!

Hi friends, just wanted to update you all on the finished product. There ended up being two huge dumptrucks full of sand & lime replaced by even more fluffy soil. 140 or so iris with hundreds of bulbs interspersed for an all season show.((( just in time for the most awesome rain in months!
I am soooo excited and grateful for all the advice. Thanks everyone.

Figaro yeah the fence is cedar with a coat of cedar stain upon which will be growing Amethyst Falls & Blue Moon Wisteria, several clematis, a few trumpets & Akebia. I'm making window boxes for the openings where I will plant dwarf Japanese Morning Glories which do well trailing down over the daylilies. Vertical Gardening is a thing for me and I think really enhances the garden as a whole.

What a beautiful iris bed! But what a lot of work to get rid of 2 dumptruck loads of sand and lime and to haul in fluffy soil!. Your hard work will pay off in the spring, however. Do post a picture of your first season of bloom. I bet it will be georgeous. And after that it will just get better. What I nice opportunity that old swimming pool created for you.

That's going to be glorious! Your property is very charming and beautiful!

Oh Gosh I didn't shovel all that myself. I just shoveled the money out of my pocket for 3 guys & a bobcat! Thank God the season is almost over because dear husbands like, Honey what about the kids college? ((( I'm counting on scholarships. (((*smiling....
thanks friends for letting me share.

They're smart kids (and mature beyond their years) for letting you replace the pool with an iris garden. They should get scholarships!