Vines, observations, and questions!

I am a newbie this year but am fast becoming educated due to the fine folks here. And a few very generous and kind folks (particularly Emma!) sent me a 1-4 seeds of some BEAUTIFUL vines and blooms. In the Spring, I started some against my backyard fence trellis, but a rodent got them and chew the stalks clean through and killed them before I could get seeds from those cultivars. I started new seeds in rectangular containers. (Which I've discovered is probably not adequate growing conditions or room for the roots or vines. (Live and learn!) I am growing out 20 different cultivars in 5 containers. (4 vines in each.)

I decided to start this thread rather than keep repeating vine blooms in the "Morning Glories 2007 #" thread.

Being new, I have a ton of questions because I have found what I always believed to be simple and non-impressive vines and blooms to be quite the contrary! I am SO addicted to MGs now ... thanks to all the wonderful enablers here! LOL! Y'all are AWESOME folks and know your "stuff" about these amazing plants! My hat's off to all of you!! Please keep WOWing me!

I have more questions almost daily about growing MGs. Here is some photos of my current set-up. Not very impressive, but the vines are blooming! :-) :-)

Nice!setup,Becky.Pretty!mg's.

Living here in the south, it gets pretty hot! I used only Moisture Control potting soil and I spray the vines and roots with Bloom Booster. And of course try to place them in an area that gets lots of sun!

Another container of 4 vines.

3rd container of vines.

4th container.

Here's how I figure it, beckygardener . . . if they don't like the environment, they won't grow well in it. These seem to be liking where they're at!

This a a great! idea.I will grow a few mg's, next year trying this method.

And final container.

beckygardener,

I have taken seeds off a pathetic looking JMG plant that grew poorly and made a few seeds out of desperation and hope to promote its own kind before it died because(I think) it didn`t like where I put it. I started the seeds in another spot where other JMGs had previously thrived and they "suddenly evolved" lol into the beautiful plants they were meant to be.

It pays big to experiment and go through some trial and error. It is also very kind of you to share your experience to help others! I have to leave now because we get to go trade plants today. bye/bye,

Karen

Thanks Karla and Nichole! Each vine is only ONE seed! (That alone blows my mind!!) I always thought you had to grow a dozen from seed to get such thick and lush MG vines! Imagine my surprise when each vine started growing. I do have two that are kinda poking along. One is Rebecca (Ha!) .... probably doing it outta spite! And the other is Gray Fog.

This one I labeled Cocoa Chocolate, but it is believed to be Plum Gray Smoke. And that name does seem to describe this lovely bloom.

This is one that is newly blooming. I labeled it Midnight Picotee.

Mind you ..... I very well may have made a mistake here or there when labeling, so bare with me! And I believe most of these were open pollination ..... Emma? So what they are labeled and how they actually turn out may be two different things!

Karen - Thanks! Yes .... this is TOTALLY a trial and error for me. Enjoy your trading today!

My goal is to grow out all the different seeds I have received from the kind folks here! I have my fingers crossed that they ALL put out LOTS of seeds. I want to try growing more of the same next Spring. After these 20 expire, I plan to plant new and different seeds/cultivars in their place. You know .... when you get hooked on MGs ..... you can NEVER try enough! LOL! I grow them strictly for the sheer joy and beauty of each and every one! And I am open to trades on those I get seeds from for seeds I don't yet have. (Though Emma gets first dibs because of her kindness in sharing with me... As does a couple other folks here!) I'm not a seller or a buyer.

And I do plan to turn some locals onto MGs, too! In my little town, I have a feeling most folks don't even think of MGs at all! It's more like Palm Trees, St. Augustine grass, and Oak Trees. No colors! Green, green, and more green ..... :-( I also garden for butterflies and hummers. Along with other creatures! (Some good and some not so good.) Living in Florida I am able to grow some great plants along with TOO MANY weeds! LOL! I try to garden without the use of pesticides. (Though sometimes I just have to break out a bottle of "poison"!)

I am a new gardener and am having a ball growing some really beautiful garden beds and vines! Most of my yard garden plants were from seed trades right here on DG!!! That membership was the best investment I have made in a long, long time!!!! What a payback!!! THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!

I got twin blooms on most of my vines today. Another one of the Midnight Picotee.

This is another one that is amazing. Blooms are 4-5"! WOW!!! I labeled it Solid Pale Lavendar.

Folks who know me.,,,, know that I have a thing for Purple and Red colors. This one I labeled Heian No Akatsuki. As the day goes on the color gets deeper almost dark blue.

This message was edited Sep 8, 2007 10:26 AM

The bloom on the right is Fuji Hot Pink Frost! LOVE IT!!! And the one on the left I believe is Plum Gray Smoke (I think).

This is one of my favorites so far. (Though .... how do you pick a favorite when they are all outstanding????) This was labeled Plum Shadows, Large blooms (4-5")! Breathtaking!

Lady Laura is to die for! Blooms average around 6" and literally flop right over because they are so big! Eye-catching!!!

This one was originally labeled Rosita Youjiro, but Emma corrected me .... it is really Youjiro Yaguruma! This one has been the best performer of all so far. Blooms constantly! Love the magenta and light blue color patterns. SOOOOO NICE!!!

This message was edited Sep 8, 2007 10:44 AM

Emma - This is the one I originally labeled as Plum Gray Smoke! What do you think it is???? It's paler colored and very pretty!!

This is anther photo of the vine and bloom that Emma thinks might be Plum Gray Frost.

This is a photo of how the ?? No Akatsuki changes as the morning passes.

This message was edited Sep 8, 2007 12:15 PM

And this is a photo of the higher blooms of Youjiro Yaguruma that are getting more sun. The pale blue is gone on these. Perhaps it is the shadow of the vines that brings out the blue. But I looked at it several times in the other photo .... and I SAW pale blue! So either I have a problem with my eyesight or the shaded blooms really do have pale blue in them. Hmmmm .....

This message was edited Sep 9, 2007 12:01 PM

Here again is another photo of the lower blooms of Youjiro Yaguruma. Different pattern on the blooms, too. This IS just one vine! Crazy, huh?

Becky - Very nice display

I'd like to offer a bit of feedback on some of the names...

I think these are 'standard' SOI/RR
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/beckygardener_1189260781_13.jpg
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/beckygardener_1189261018_694.jpg

SOI/RR in the PlantFiles
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/84606/

I don't recognize this one offhand
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/beckygardener_1189261553_0.jpg
but I like it alot(!)...Izumi and Yamatoji come to mind but the flower you posted looks darker/richer and has a relatively large white throat...

Here is Heian Akathuki in the PlantFiles
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/94373/

This lavender looking one
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/beckygardener_1189262391_776.jpg
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3950932
is very nice but it doesn't look reddish like the Yaguruma
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/23046/

just in case there is more than 1 plant I'd suggest tagging the lower lavender looking blooms...

This one
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3950914
is looking very much like Akatsuki no Umi
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/58215/


TTY,...

Ron

Okay ..... now I have some questions and hope some folks here will help me out with answers:

Some of the spent bloom buds are falling off the vine. Which means no seed pods! ACK!!! What would cause this and is there something I can do to correct/stop that from happening????

Is it a good idea or necessary to photograph the blooms early and then again later to see the color change?

No shade here for my containers, except by each other when in close proximity ..... so they wilt pretty quickly once the hot sun hits them. Do any folks here "shade" theirs? If so, what are you using?

Should I separate the containers far apart to prevent the likelihood of open pollination or leave them be to see what I get in future seeds? I don't have the time or steady hands to hand pollinate them. (Trust me .... not going to happen here!) Would separating them work or is it still a high possibility that they will cross? Or do most just self-pollinate and stay true? Anyone know a percentage?

I had other questions, but can't remember them now. Probably will ask more later or tomorrow. When I am out there first thing checking and photographing them, all kinds of questions start popping into my mind. It's just fascinating to see what these vines produce!!!

Oh! Thank you, Ron!!! I really need some objective feedback on my blooms! And I want to properly label them if they are wrong!

I grew some Akatsuki no Umi along my fence (which is still growing and blooming) and I immediately thought that this was the same cultivar! Thanks for confirming what I was thinking!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3950914
As it gets darker, it definitely looks like it! This is how it looks first thing in the morning and has more purple in it:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=3950798

Becky - The spent blooms (i.e.,the inner flower) should fall off...do you mean the entire outer flower >the calyx is falling off(?)


"Is it a good idea or necessary to photograph the blooms early and then again later to see the color change?

I'd say it's 'good practice' to photographically document the color changes...


"Do any folks here "shade" theirs? If so, what are you using?"

I've seen people use the open sided party canopies...and large beach umbrellas...they're relatively inexpensive and they do work...

"Should I separate the containers far apart to prevent the likelihood of open pollination..."

Separating them as far apart as possible is certainly beter than keeping the same species planted close together..
the more plants of different species (that the bees like to visit) that you place inbetween and around the MG's the less likely there will be unwanted crossing because each time the bee visits a flower of a different species some pollen is picked up and lost...
someone else can try to figure out the 'exact' mathematical possibilities...

"I had other questions, but can't remember them now..., all kinds of questions start popping into my mind."

Keep a small notepad(!) and pen with you or a laptop or a small pocket sized tape recorder...

TTY,...

Ron

Ron - Thanks so much for answering my questions. I genuinely appreciate it!!!

Yes, unfortunately, the entire outer flower > the calyx is falling off! Not on all of them, just some of the lower blooms! (I hope this doesn't continue to happen.) They are NOT getting broken off or blown off or rained off. They are literally just falling off the vine. It's rather discouraging!!! Does this perhaps happen if the bloom is not pollinated? Or could it be caused from some other factor such as not enough sun or water or what? My vines all "seem" very healthy right now.

Do ALL MGs have the ability to self-pollinate? Or just some varieties?

Becky, I love your setup! Two questions: (1) how tall are your bamboo stakes? (2) why the chicken wire?

I'm glad you're asking these questions. They're ones I've had myself in recent days. Helps to know I'm not the only uneducated one...lol.

Judith

P.S. Gorgeous blooms!

I have several vines that haven't produced any blooms yet. These are labeled as such (though they may be labeled wrong!):

Mt. Fuji Blue
Rebecca
Plum w/Picotee
Hamaginga Blue
Sunrise Serenade
One that IS labeled Plum Gray Smoke
Plum Splash
Solid Chocolate
Gray Fog
Joyce Cobb - Huge vine, no blooms yet, though I do see some buds!

Hopefully these will start blooming soon so we can see what they really are! :-)

"Yes, unfortunately, the entire outer flower > the calyx is falling off!...
Does this perhaps happen if the bloom is not pollinated? Or could it be caused from some other factor such as not enough sun or water or what?

Yes,if the flower is not fertilized it will wither,dry up and be discadred...the other factors you mentioned are possibilities and sometimes the plant has ideas of it's own and decides which flowers are going to produce seeds regardless of whether they are fully fertilized or not...


"Do ALL MGs have the ability to self-pollinate? Or just some varieties?"

This can get complicated but rather than go too much into details some species like Ipomoea indica and Ipomoea pandurata commonly develop self-infertility and need to be fertilized by another plant of the same species that is not too closely related or the pollen will be rejected...

I'll just also add that it's always best if they have a helping hand from you or other pollination facillitators...

The height of the stamen/anthers relative to the height of the pistil/stigma is something to check out...

Pins and thrums have different rates of self-fertilizing
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=3107606

TTY,...

Ron

Judith - The bamboo stakes are 6' tall. Hence I KNOW they aren't going to be even close enough to handle some or all of the vines! Several vines have already reached the top and were hanging over by 12-24". HA! So I wrapped them DOWN the stakes! LOL! I guess I'll just keep wrapping them up and down. Next time I will grow them in containers against the fence! Give them more room to sprawl out. And I will probably use bigger pots and keep them planted individually not 4 different cultivars to one container. Too crazy to keep track of them that way, especially if I marked them incorrectly or they came up something totally different! But my set-up sure looks nice! LOL!

The chicken wire is to keep a rodent (who I don't see anymore .... might have become dinner for the local hawk or family of 3 owls) from chewing through the stalks and killing my vines. I suspect it was sharpening it's teeth on my vines! Grrrrrr

But I do have these containers up on the patio table all crammed together and added the chicken wire to try to discourage any squirrels or any climbing rodents from chewing on these new vines. So far (knock on wood) it has worked as you can see by the current results. I'm afraid to say too much as I might jinx myself. My goal right now is to get seeds ..... hopefully LOTS of seeds from each vine! But I say that cautiously, as I KNOW what can happen. So ......

And please, Judith ..... if you have any questions .... please ask! I am sure it would be one that I would or will ask! I am trying to learn about MGs and how to successfully grow them.

One thing that I do feel very lucky about ..... I have a longer grow season as we usually get very mild winters here. So I am hoping that I can grow these out year round or pretty much year round! I shall find out soon as this is "Fall" though it still feels like summer here.

And that brings me to another question .....

Is it the sun or the heat or a combo of both that promotes the vines to flourish and bloom? I am wondering if I will have as much success when the temps cool down into the 70's instead of the high 80's and the low 90's that we are currently experiencing.

Thank you, Ron. Very interesting that the MG vines have a mind of their own as to which blooms will produce seeds and which won't! Fascinating!!! And thanks for clearing up my question about self-pollination of all species of MGs. Another amazing fact!

Ron - I just have to ask you a personal question..... I hope you don't mind. How many different cultivars have you grown in your lifetime so far? I know you've been growing MGs since you were a young boy. I wished I'd been into gardening as a child or teenager. I'm past the half century mark and keep wishing I'd done gardening years ago! You are so knowledgeable and I'm in awe that you can keep track of what to look for and what cultivar is what! Your knowledge of detail is amazing! Thanks so much for taking the time to educate someone like me who is pretty naive and new to MGs! I really appreciate it more than you know! Thank you. :-)

Oops! I'm mistaken..... I did get a bloom from one that IS labeled Plum Gray Smoke! It's this one.

Do they make 10' tall bamboo stakes? LOL I LOVE that last one, Plum Gray Smoke!

LOL! I think they do make 10', Judith!! But how would I ever photograph them??? LOL! Where I live, the wind would probably topple them over!

I'm thinking fence trellis in the Spring to grow mine along. But ..... I might just change my mind! I do love this set-up that I used for Karen's grow-out seeds that she shared with me. I might just do this instead of using the fence, then I could have lovely pots of vines ALL over my yard! LOL! Now that would be MG Heaven in my mind!!! :-)

Drat! Wrong photo. I meant to post this one.

If you want to see wind-toppled trellis, here's mine from last week.

"Is it the sun or the heat or a combo of both that promotes the vines to flourish and bloom? I am wondering if I will have as much success when the temps cool down into the 70's instead of the high 80's and the low 90's that we are currently experiencing.


The plants need light,water and nutrients in the growing medium and the temperatures affect the speed of the metabolism...

You'll probably find that different plants prefer different environmental 'settings'...
Each species can display a different response to a particular climate and >even individual plants can show differences in how they respond to climatic variables...adaptation is still an active survivalistic process...thankfully(!)...

I've not attempted to 'count' the 'number' of different types that I've grown...but if you've been growing them for several decades it adds up to some 'elusive' number...

I just enjoy growing them and have always naturally been interested in detail and >why(!)...

So,no need to waste energy being in 'awe' of what I've retained...just enjoy growing them and remain awed at the processes of Nature revealing Itself...

TTY,...

Ron

Here's what it looked like the day before.