Seedling harvest

Here are some trumpet seedlings that are only 4 months old. They sure grow fast! These are from Pard.

This message was edited Aug 25, 2007 8:31 PM

Pumilum planted this spring also. I was very surprised to see a species grow so big of bulbs in 3.5 months.

You've got the magic, intercessor. What wonderful work you do with seeds. Put me to shame.

Oh my, how on earth are you doing that?

I guess trumpets grow fast. Lots of sun!

This message was edited Aug 25, 2007 8:45 PM

You started these from seed?

Yes from seed. The majority of the trumpets are 1-1.5" across x 1.25-1.5" high. The L.pumilums are 1.25" high but tend to be skinny.

Amazing. I will need to try this at some point. Probably not this year, tho. :)

did you start the seed in soil? and at what point do you take them out of the soil? why are they out of soil now? those look great:)

I need to redo, expand etc. my bed, so I needed to dig everything up. I washed them up and will be putting them in the fridge for a couple months.

Oh my!!!!

Pard did your trumpets grow fast?

They do grow fast under optimal conditions. They seem to be the fastest growing ones of all the different divisions I've tried. That is why I recommend them for beginners, they are so easy. We all want to see them when they bloom!

I imagine I will get some to bloom next year, if nothing eats them! I lost the crosses though. Melon w/pink edges x ? Do you have pictures of your trumpets? Just curious what the parents look like :*)

Tnx

Here is the link to my trumpet thread from last year. These represent some but not all of the parents of the seeds I sent out. Melon with pink edge is the 3rd one down.... Scrump!

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/623845/

Cool, thanks. Do you know if any of your trumpets are 4n?

I don't think I sent out any 4n. I have a couple of 4n seedlings coming along, one bloomed this season but I didn't let it set seed. I hopefully have a good cross of Silk Road x red chevron OT seedling. We'll see. I really need to get more 4n stuff to play with!

Go for it! I put 4n on SR, Schehz, Conc dOr (sp?), Anastasia with good to great pod swelling. 4n material is a must when playing with OT crosses :*)

Oh I put something on Schez but I forget what it was, didn't label it, sloppy lazy me. Anyway it has a pod.

I have some crosses with 4n from the NALS exchange. Can one of you explain to me what it is or what it means. Since I am not that great with figuring out this pollen stuff, I'd love to hear about what it does for a cross.

Earlier prior to our wonderful rain, I set out around 130 trumpet and scaled seedlings that I started this past winter in Feb.
Some didn't make it, but that goes with the territory.

Any one have Buggy Crazy's web site. The lady that formatted my crashed computer didn't put it on. BUMMER!!
Imagine you all have ordered?

Maxine

Maxine, here it is...
http://buggycrazy.vstore.ca/
And we saved some there for you ;)

Wow and double WOW! I've started a few seeds before and they were supposed to be tetraploid seeds, but none ever grew like those!

Even the few babies I had planted out last year got totally frozen this spring and there is very little sign of any survival. I'm glad someone is having such wonderful experience growing lilium seeds.

"Wow" hardly express our amazement. Zooming in on the L. pumilum, you can easily see the large, plentiful and healthy contractile roots (if you know what you're looking for).

Maybe you'd like to get a close up of them for us all. And also, if you could please, add it to this most classic thread of ours "How babies relocate" http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/655898/

One more question though, doesn't it hurt these babies to have the leaves stripped from them this early in the season? They all had leaves, right? wouldn't they potentially even get larger with another month in the ground. They do look fabulous, you know.

I had 4 reasons for excavating the bulbs now:

1. Rabbits had mowed down the species seedlings at the end of July. So I wanted to get them out of the warm,wet soil before they rotted and or grew new leaves. L. Concolor seedlings have mostly rotted basal plates already :*(.

2. I am expanding the bed and making it raised. Which = lots of work.

3. I wanted to get started before I turn into Mr. Mom.

4. I was just plain curious how everything looked!

Yes the seedlings with leaves would have grown more. However most were much bigger than I had thought, so they will have plenty of energy to continue next year.

This message was edited Aug 26, 2007 2:06 PM

Ok a real quick genetic lesson.

A standard lily has 24 chromosomes which can be described as being "diploid" or "2n". So when 2n lilies produce pollen or ovules the reproduction cells are "1n". Pollen + ovule = 2n lily.
The problem with wide crosses, OT, LA, Asiapets etc. is that they are commonly "3n" or "triploid". 3n lilies are most likely to be pollen and/or ovary sterile. The strange thing about plants is that they can have massive changes in genetic counts and still live! Where as a mammal would have aborted if they became 3n or 4n. So this is where seedless produce comes from. 3n oranges would most likely = seedless oranges. Ok back to lilies. However,some 3n lilies are pollen sterile but ovary fertile with a "4n" or "tetraploid" pollen parent! Pollen from a 4n parent is very important to continuing an OT breeding line. The F1 generation is usually 3n or a sterile dead-end without pollen from a 4n parent.
OT seed usually comes from an OT being crossed with a 4n pollen parent. Whether it is a tetra trumpet or tetra OT such as Scene Stealer. Not all 4n lilies are pollen fertile either! I know TLG usually says if the plant is pollen fertile.

I left plenty out but it is a start.

That's an awesome harvest! Good job!

Okay, so 4n=tetraploid. Now I get it. I understand the ploid-speak, if you will, but was not that familiar with the n-speak.
Oh, intercessor, I hope you know I wasn't trying to give you a hard time, I was just curious at to why you wouldn't give them that extra month. I mean, they look so good, so clearly whatever you are doing, is working.
Is there a book out there that discusses the pollen thing in most detail? I have 3 lily books and I don't seem to find a lot of that data. Some yes, but then maybe, it just doesn't stick ;)

I have looked around but have only found bits and pieces. This site has some detailed articles http://www.cascadebulbandseed.com/articles.html.
Some are about daylilies but the genetic stuff is similar. I wish there was a book that pooled all of the lily experts' experiences, thoughts, science knowledge! I guess we will have to buy old NALS yearbooks for now :*(

Thanks Moby. The trumpets seem particularly easy to grow from seed.

pard, isn't it neat seeing all of your babies grow up?

Yes, it is neat..... Wouldn't it be funny if every single one turned out to be white with yellow in the middle. ha ha ha! I can just see the virtual rotten eggs coming at me!

Nah. No rotten eggs throw from here, pard. I choose to think of your seedlings as the next megabuck lily. Maybe that could be a name 'Megabucks'. heeheehee ;)

Oh, like that iris named Megabucks....

Here I thought I was being original and all.

Hmmm, What I understand to be the case is if a plant is 4n then the pollen is 2n. From what I have read most fertile OT pollen comes from 4n plants. Though not all 4n plants are pollen fertile, weird eh?
Not sure about the 3n ovules though. A 3n x 4n can yield both aneuploid(extra chromosomes of some but not others) or 4n .
2n x 4n = 3n or 4n. I know I read some where the approximate %'s of what may turn up with various n counts, can't remember where though.
The pollen parent from the new and expensive "Pink Jazz" was 4n from "Starburst Sensation 3n x 4n pollen parent".
Dick Bazett mentioned on the Yahoo forum "I applied this (4n) pollen to
"Starburst Sensation", and by pure luck the one embryo I cultured from the
cross turned out to be a tetraploid .'
So it seems a pod fertile 3n OT may have 1n and or 2n ovules.


This message was edited Aug 27, 2007 10:18 AM

I read about 'Pink Jazz' and its parentage on the Online Lily Registry. Am finding all of this is very interesting.
Interstingly enough, I found an area on the lily registry to have a lot of information about pollination, seed harvest and chromosome counts. It has been very helpful.

What the registry doesn't mention is that 'White Henry & Dominque' were tetra forms.

No, I didn't mean the tetra part, I meant the parentage part. Sorry. I suppose the information you speak of intercessor, is something you'd only get from the breeder.