IRIS & DL. EXPERTS! Blank canvas: Show newbie some love?

Ok all, First post ~ I've been reading this forum for a long time and have been really inspired by this cyber-gardening tool of generous people helping each other and showing off amazing photos & whatnot. I'm an artist by trade with a new obsession: iris, daylilies & clematis. (the latter of which I think I've got a good handle on). I've been studying endlessly from mostly you all, so now what I want is any experienced people who could tell me how YOU would start a new perfect bed for iris / daylilies from scratch. I have strong guys coming next week with tillers (along with many shipments of iris & daylilies). My plan is to test and amend my heavy clay soil with raised beds: peat, sand, and bone meal. I've heard many many things: ashes, wood chips, gypsum, alfalfa, coffee, vinegar... But no compost or manure this time of year, if at all. Also I'd like some ideas to PREVENT borers and rot. (other than not much water & planting at the right depth) . Also initial fertilizer for bulbs, new fans & rhizomes. I'll have TBs, a few siberians & japanese, with DLs & low water annuals... So future friends, what would YOU DO or wish you had done in the first place? I hope I get so many ideas that I get confused. You all rock and I love ya! Best from Kentucky.

I am not terribly familiar with daylilies, but I can tell you that putting beardeds, Sibs, and JIs in the same bed is going to require some special planning and maintenance on your part. The beardeds need soil on the lean, dry side, while the beardless like lots of water and soil fertility. Beardeds like their soil within reasonable proximity on either side of neutral pH, but beardless prefer acid soil. Beardeds shouldn't be mulched; beardless should. Beardeds shouldn't be given much nitrogen; beardless should. Beardeds like full sun, but you may find that in your hot summer climate, the beardless will do best with some shade during the hottest hours of the day.

Getting confused yet?

Laurie

Daylily like a bit more water and to be mulched. Tall bearded should not be mulched and like it a bit on the dry side. Some growers mound up the soil in daylily beds and plant iris without mulch where they will drain off to the daylily

OOH. you all are posters I've read and have learned a lot from already. Thanks. I have mostly TB's, only a few "others". So I'll stick to just TBs in full sun along the back rows & just daylilies in front with just a bit more water & light mulch. nice draining idea jackie. (Sibs & Js can have their own seperate moist, shadier home. right.) THANKS! How bout preventative stuff, chemical or otherwise to get a jump on borers or fungus? I lost some info on what one would soak them in or spray on them next spring. THANKS so much. Also any "perfect soil" ideas for establishing new plants from anyone is welcome. Heavy KY clay...

I'd suggest sterilizing your rhizomes to help prevent both borers and rot... From suggestions I've read, that means a 15 minute soak in solution of 1 cup household bleach plus 1 gallon water, then rinse well and allow to dry.

In early spring, you can put down Merit (imidacloprid) to control grubs (eg, borers).

It sounds like you've got a good handle on the soil amendment and drainage issue. Getting your soil tested will help in letting you know what to add.

I'm not sure why you think it's too late to add manure -- as long as it is well composted! I'd think that any well aged compost would improve your soil.

Both irises and daylilies seem to do find in my clay soil, which has been amended with composted manure. :-)

The bleach soak (for beardeds only) won't do anything to prevent borers, but it will help clean certain pathogens off of the rhizomes before planting in your garden. The bleach solution is one part bleach to nine parts water, soak for 20 mins, rinse in clear water, and plant.

Merit (imidacloprid), normally sold in lawn grub control products, is very effective against borers if applied early in spring before temps reach 70 degrees, just as irises break dormancy and begin active growth. It can be applied to both bearded and beardless irises, and a single application will last all season.

Fungal leaf spot can be minimized by planting your bed with sufficient space between plants to allow excellent air circulation. Also, avoid overhead watering. If you want to use chemical control, alternate fungicidal sprays and spray every couple of weeks throughout your rainy season BEFORE leaf spot appears (most fungicidal sprays are preventative only, not curative). Otherwise, just cut off spotted parts of leaves as they appear (burn or trash - do NOT compost).

Your beardless iris bed can be amended with well composted manure, sphagnum peat moss, compost, alfalfa meal, and/or pine needles. If your soil is neutral or alkaline, add ferrous sulphate to acidify the soil. You want the soil in the beardless bed to be moisture-retentive but not soggy or boggy.

Laurie

PERFECT! products, that's what I wanted to know. I'm grateful & amazed to those of you who take the time. Laurie, you're really active here and you must have a good show goin' in your yard!

I heard to stay away from too much nitrogen & richness (in manure & compost) for beardeds & daylilies. (counterintuitive to clematis growers). less fuss seems to be consensus, but I'll pick & choose my advice to heed from successful gardeners, thanks.

"This time of year" (?)... I heard from someone that manure - even well rotted, and compost, mixed with record temps and high humidity can cause, or make conditions more susceptible to funk issues.

I hear heavy, course sand is a good idea, anyone?

Also, if the nursery states that they "wash" their rhizomes before shipment, does that mean (i assume) they do it with the bleach mixture? and if they get "washed" twice, would it hurt them? cleanliness is Godliness... plus, these things aren't free (well, often not) and time is precious ~ ~ so again, thanks so much for yours!

Shawna

There is no standard among nurseries in terms of preparing irises for shipping. Some trim but don't wash; some wash with water but no bleach; some do a bleach dunk but no soak; and some do the bleach soak. It won't hurt your irises to do a bleach solution soak before planting, even if the bleach soak was already done by the shipper. Only bleach soak beardeds, though, not beardless.

Coarse sand is an excellent and permanent amendment for clay. So is topsoil, if you can find an economical source.

Manure, high temps, and high humidity are a dangerous combination for all irises, even the beardless. If your temps are above 80 when you receive your beardless, you might be better off potting them and keeping them in a shady area until your temps cool off. Then you can transfer them into the garden. Keep them well watered for the rest of this growing season.

You can plant the beardeds in the heat, but keep the manure out of their part of the garden. Water them deeply and infrequently (once a week at most, and only if you get no rainfall).

The bottom line is that you will read as many different culture techniques as there are iris gardeners. What makes irises thrive in one garden may spell sure death in another. You are wise to pick and choose the advice that makes the most sense to you, because you are the only one who knows exactly how your own garden behaves. If you follow all of my advice, you may manage to kill off as many irises as I have. ;-)

Irises can be challenging, and figuring out how to grow them successfully in your own garden may take a bit of time and experimentation. Also, be aware that not all irises grow in all environments. One cultivar or type of iris may thrive while the clump right next to it withers away. It happens. In fact, it's what keeps some of us going. Personally, I enjoy the challenge.

Laurie

thanks Laurie very much. good stuff. I visited your website looking for photos of your garden and found much, much more there; varied interests, busy lady. Is your shipping season over? I'm sure I could squeeze another Rebloomer or two in my newbie-new juicy blank canvas beds you've so generously helped me with. Here's part of my new garden. Iris will be along entire length of new huge cedar fence with many clematis growing up behind them and daylilies in front of them. Take care, Shawna

Yes, Shawna, I'm afraid my digging and shipping season is finished for the year. In my short season climate, I risk losing irises over winter if I disturb their roots after Aug. 15. Thank you for your interest, though.

Your garden looks absolutely WONDERFUL! Irises will make a beautiful addition to your landscape.

Enjoy the rest of your season,

Laurie

I've been growing iris for decades and it's still an experiment. Mine are all in mixed perennial beds on raised mounds. I mulch everything BUT the beardled iris. My clay soil keeps them high and dry. Iris need lots of air--so i don't let daylilies and other plants over shadow them . A little tricky, but it can be done.

One mixed bed in Spring 2006.

Same bed in July of 2006.

Oh my goodness, Wanda,
That's exactly what I want to do, I just didn't know it! The daylilies are mixed in? Are they planted in the ground, and the irises in mounds? So much to learn, so little time.
Best be off to do my research.
Thanks for the inspiration and direction,
Margo

HOLY COW WANDA! I didn't realize you replied to my post before I replied to yours! That is the coolest way to do a bed of both iris & daylilies and the best photo, EVER. I'm in the designing stage of a few new fresh beds and am able to start from scratch, so as the shipments have arrived, my design sense and my newbie anxiety have been conflicted because I thought you could put them in the same bed, but sorta seperate due to differing water & mulch requirements. but girl, your "experiment" WORKED!!! You have cool colors in spring turning to hot & warm palette in summer! Brilliant, and thanks so much for the pictures. any more details about how you arranged them and how you treat & feed them and maintain the seperate needs for them would be welcome with open arms. Thank You & all the best, Shawna

I'd love to know, too. :D Thanks for this thread Shawna!

Let me tell you, Wanda's Gardens are WAY more than you can even begin to vision.
Some people say, a pictures worth a thousand words..
well the pictures don't begin to tell the story of that girls hard work!!!
She's got it together, the knowledge and the enthusiasm!!!

Shawna. If you want your iris in rows, this is what I do. I take two and put them going one way and one going the other way between the first two but not right against them with the tops of the rizomes just above the soil. Then I take three more and put them about 8inches down the row and soforth. That way when they walk!! multiply they will spread down the row and fill it. Hope this helps. BEV

Hi, Soulja,
Welcome to the Iris forum. I am just south of you near the TN line. I grow iris, daylilies and hosta mostly plus other perennials. I think being an artist you are drawn to all the wonderful colors. I have mostly mixed beds of iris and daylilies because it extends the bloom time. I belong to the Bowling Green iris society and the Nashville daylily club.

We finally got a little rain, how about Louisville?
Teresa in KY

Hi Teresa! . I've been reading your input here for quite awhile, lately Rebloomers in zone 6. great photos & information for new gardeners shared here. I swear this forum has shaved off hours & days of research and maybe mistakes for those of us just starting out. I too am a bluegrass Mom, but now the kids are big and I can be out in the garden like I always wanted to be. Yes, with an art background, a tiller and a couple hundred fans, rhizomes and bulbs, and a new obsession - you can make heaven. I've been able to work on it almost full time since early spring, started on Derby Day with herbs in a long line of WHISKEY BARRELS!!!! (I call it Kentucky elegance) and then CLEMATIS - my first love. I have about 60 growing on pergolas I built. i tried some vegetables... not for me. but NOW< ha! well I got the daylily & iris disorder... and the family is just watching the grass rapidly disappear before their eyes. ~ THE BLUEGRASS THAT IS ~ thanks for the holler Teresa, ~ thank God it's raining! ~ BLOOMS AWAY!

Hey, Soulja
I can help you out if you need any more dls :)

Here is a link to my classified ad.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/765333/#new

want2bee is just angling for more iris. LOL Come on over girl & I'll dig you more iris & daylilies & perennials than you can carry. Time to clean the garden again!

I plant in rows: daylily, iris, other perennial, daylily iris, other perennial. I stagger the next row so the plants fall between the other row. My beds are anywhere from 8 foot to 20 foot deep and 30 foot to 60 foot long. Just really deep boprders.

I use alot of lilliums, phlox, clematis,canna, tall asters, mums, & such for the back rows to add height.

Middle rows hold snapdragons, sage,speedwell, coreopsis, zinnias, Siberiands,blackeyed susans,shorter phlox, tall sedum, perennial geraniums,shorter lilies, yarrow etc mixed in with the iris & daylilies.

Front rows have dwarf & Intermediate iris plus small daylilies, dwarf lilliums, coreopsis,dwarf asters,short geraniums,dwarf zinnias etc.

400 + spring bulbs are tucked in between the clumps of daylies & iris. The dying bulb foliage is covered by the daylily & other emerging foliage.
I plant for a color mix as well as color from April to October. A little tricky some years. I have putting ll my new iris on 4 inch high mounds & replanting the older clumps as I go. The raised mounds enable me to mulch the other flowers in the beds without risking rot in my iris.

I'm lazy. I don't water unless a plant is new--mulch holds in the rain. I hate to weed, so the mulch keep my beds clean.

I deadhead all my plants to keep unwanted seedlings from crowding out my cultivars.

After the iris bloom, I keep them trimmed & clean with plenty of air around them. One bed in June 2006.

Same bed in July 2006. Can't do that this year. Iris bloom was sad after an April freeze.

Wanda - you are awe inspiring. thanks so much, I know you're newbie thread is keeping you mad busy and yet you take the time to teach me how to turn a fantasy blue garden in March into a killer red & gold show in June. i appreciate it so much. ~ Shawna

Dragonfly: thanks for the suggestion about which way the iris "walk" - good stuff for the planning stage. and Teresa, thank you too, I'm lookin' into them's there daylilies!

Shawna, those are pretty. Do you have them alone on a trellis?
I have a couple with my clematis so when they are done the MG kick in for a later show.
Teresa

they're actually growing up my cabin studio alongside a pergola full of moonflowers which are killin' me (!!!) with fragrance each night. They do a tag team with the morning glories at about 7 or 8 and I'm trying to get a photo with both of them open at the same time. LOVE the annual vines. I'm loaded up on next seasons crazy rare japanese morning glory seeds already.

Oh, I love moon vine too! Which variety of JMs are you planting.
I learned the hard way that they do not like to be moved :(

I'm planting dwarfs in window boxes along the fence to trail down to meet the daylilies below: Morning Glory, meet daylily!

JMs: Star of India, Chachamaru 'Charming Brown', Ensigns, Picotee Blue, Mt Fujis: Fuscia & Lt. & dark blue, Kniolas Black, also I cant wait to see Miniature Sunspots. They have good deals on rare seeds on Ebay. But for TODAY here's what I got: