Bayer tree & shrub for sago scale?

Help, I am visiting at my son's new home and they have some fabulous sagos that are just covered with scale. I wanted to try a combination of Bayer T & S and an oil spray but was unable to find any oil locally.

The directions for the Bayer are either by the height of the shrub or the diameter of the trunk for a tree at 4'. Sagos have short but fat trunks; how much solution do you think I should use per gallon of water? This plant has a 10" diameter trunk (I couldn't get under it to measure the circumferance) and the spread is about 8' it is maybe 4' tall.

In my opinion, sagos are pretty tough plants; if I go with a heavy concerntration will that harm the plant?

Ardesia-I don't know what the range of the rates are per gallon with Bayer-but I would look at the rates for a larger shrub-one that is similiar in size (if that is how they figure out the rates, or do they just do the caliper?) to the sago and perhaps double it or one and a half times that rate-that should be ok.
I think that I have heard of Neems oil being successfully used with scale on sago, and that is fairly easy to find.

Ardesia,
I've done a bit of research on the scale and offer the following (keep in mind, I'm an amateur sago grower who is fascinated by these beauties);

The scale is persistent, if nothing else, and you have to be persistent too, but you CAN win the battle.

I use NEEM Concentrate and sprayed my palms (not heavily infested) thoroughly on a REGULAR REGIME of every 4 days with a 2-gallon sprayer. Be fastidious!

Leaf scale can burrow down into the soil! So, be mindful when you use digging implements and/or garden tools, and spreading soil around your yard.

Leaf scale is an AIRBORNE critter which can be blown from plant to plant, yard to yard. Keep in mind you may irradicate your problem only to have it reappear because your neighbor's palm scale blew back into your yard! (Do not get discouraged, please -- you can win...)

Spray ALL the fronds, starting from the UNDERSIDE and working your way up the palm. Spray the entire length of the frond.

Let me know how you make out.

Thanks Gymgirl, I have copied your directions and will forward them to my son and DIL. I just ordered a good sprayer for them, one that puts out a steady but a fine spray so they can get good coverage. I suspect the fronds on the one most affected will have to be removed but hopefully they can save the plant by getting a handle on this nasty stuff. Every four days sounds like a lot but perhaps they will have to do that until these plants can be replaced.

Ardesia,
Keep in mind, I was using NEEM. Look at your Bayer directions for their recommended spraying schedule. I had scale on several palms, and it seemed to be spreading to healthy plants. I got after it in order to keep it from spreading.

I've told them to alternate Neem with Organicide which is a fish oil and is recommended by FL extension and others. Like you mentioned, it is an ongoing project; they will have their hands full.

Could someone please post a pic of some sage scale? I've heard a lot about it but never seen it. I'm wondering if it's what I have ... thanks!

This is a picture of the top of a frond.

Bottom of the frond.

Oh wow - that's incredible! How awful ... looks like they're sucking the green out of the plant mm by mm.

I have a thick white cottony web on the back of one of my fronds and when you spray it with water or anything, you see a bunch of little black dots crawling around. Sprayed Neem on it a few weeks ago and no movement since but I haven't been able to knock off the web yet. Thankfully it's not scale from what your pictures look like.

Looking into the middle. I hope yours is in better shape than this one is.

LOL, we cross posted. You might want to check out cottony cushion scale; not really a web but a yucky soft fluffy scale. Easier to eradicate than this one thankfully.

OMG, that's horrible!!

Ok, I will. Thanks!

Ardesia,
That's a really advanced case of leaf scale. I'm almost tempted to advise them to just cut off those fronds altogether. Could you post a pic of the entire Sago so I can get a better idea of the infestation? Thanks.

It is at my son's home in FL and I won't be back there until the end of Sept. It is an advanced case and there are three other sagos in the same bed and about 15 others around the property. I've explained to them that if they don't see any improvement in the next two weeks they will have to cut off all the fronds. I pointed out to them where a lot of the sagos in the common plantings in their neighborhood had been pruned back. It looked like a lot of little stumps in the median strips.
This problem reminds me of the issues we had years ago with the Red Tip Photinias. They were overused, as the sagos are in FL, and when they all came down with a fungus every neighborhood had scores of dead looking plants that had to be removed.

News Flash!

I just read that using USED coffee grinds like fertilizer on the Sago Palms will get rid of the leaf scale. They can't tolerate it. But, it has to get into the plants system (like a systemic) first, so start sprinkling those grinds around those palms! Once it gets into the plant, the scale won't suck on the juices anymore.

Godspeed!

WOW, that is interesting. I wonder if they have to be used. My kids are not big coffee drinkers and they would probably not go and ask at a SB. But, they could buy a huge can of cheapo coffee someplace and spread that around. It certainly can't hurt and is worth a try. And, that is a lot less expensive than the insecticides not to mention safer.

Thanks Gymgirl.

The coffee grounds must be USED,you can go to a coffee shop and they will give them to you free!This should work.............good luck .......Lance

Just curious here, what is the difference?

Also, I can't find anything on the internet about the coffee grounds/sagos and would love some more specific information to pass on to my son.

I would contact Tom Broome, former cycad society president and Florida Nursary owner for information on how to truely beat the asian scale on a long term / permanant basis. His web site is http://cycadjungle.8m.com/
Tom has a method that works and has kept his plants free from scale even when others close by have an infestation. Tom is a nice fellow and does not charge for advise. He also has copies of some articles he has published on the subject loaded on to his web site.

George in San Antonio

Thanks George, I have read his materials previously and passed on that info.

However, if someone says coffee grounds help, it certainly can't hurt to try them in addition to traditional methods. I just can't grasp why they have to be used. Used coffee grounds have been combined with water and fresh coffee grounds will be combined with water soon after they are applied to the ground. I understand the heat from the water in a coffee maker would release some oils but the Florida sun will do that quickly too.

ala Nike:

Just Brew It!

Venturan!

A one-liner that explains it all: PRICELESS!

BTW,
Thank you Lance, as it was you who directed me to Mr. Broome's website. I read most all of his articles over this weekend, however, I didn't come across any specifics on the coffee grinds (amount, when to spread, how to spread, etc.). However, the whole thing does make sense if the scale doesn't tolerate caffeine, so, Like the Venturan said I'm just gonna "Brew It!" I found a small 4-leaf specimen with 1-1/2 leaves totally infested. That'll be my "control" for this experiment. I trimmed off all the leaves, and mixed yesterday morning's USED coffee grinds into the top 2" of soil in the pot. Then, I watered it down well, and put it back in the partial sun.

I need the cycads gurus to give me some feedback on my other weekend activity: I repotted 35 Sago palms into a mixture of 50% Palm and cactus mix and 50% MG potting mix. I'm not really concerned that this mixture won't work, cause I've found they will grow. My real question is one of "timing."

With this great weekend weather only lasting a few more weeks, I decided to get the yard cleaned up/organized for the upcoming winter and Spring. Our yard looks like a jungle from neglect. The Houston monsoons were totally discouraging to be outdoors almost this whole summer. And when the rains didn't keep me in, the mosquitoes and the floating, cottony, leaf scaley thingies did. All greenery and no color -- really blah!

Anyway, I've decided to get back to my Sago Palm nursery. I love the challenge of growing them to beautiful specimens, and am fascinated with their development, from seeds, the self-pollination methods, the coffee grinds, and even cutting off fronds on a mature plant to force a flush of beautiful new leaves! (Which, BTW, my DH does in April, and yes, by some miracle of God Himself, produces the most beautiful new fronds in about 3 weeks). The first time he did this I came home to "bare naked ladies," and almost passed out! But, evidently the man knows more than I give him credit for....

Anyway, long story longer -- my plan is to get them repotted now, in prep for the winter season, then, cut the fronds come April (when he cuts the others) for a new flush sometime around May. Mr. Broome's article says they can put out as many as 3-4 forced flushes like this in a year, depending on the number of original leaves it already has for producing "energy." I'm only planning on trimming back those that have at least 4-5 leaves, just to give them a new start. They're all kinda "ratty" from neglect this summer.

Does this schedule and plan sound viable to you guys? Please let me know.

P.S. I know it's already too late with the repotting thing, but any insight on doing this next time would be welcome.