What to do with quack grass?

You're right on the money Karin!
This is what I had-
http://www.life.uiuc.edu/help/digitalflowers/picts/Euphorbiaceae/11-Euphorbia%20marginata.jpg

There's a variegated form of Aegopodium podagraria out there and here it is-
http://www.botanikos-sodas.vu.lt/albums2/album79/aegopodium_podagraria_variegata.sized.jpg

Check this out, this news is HUGE.
I was in my Lesco store yesterday and saw this new product.
http://www.lesco.com/?PageID=27&ItemNumber=088732
that's right - selective control of quackgrass. I'll get some this fall to try out.

Creeping Charlie, if it is what I am thinking of, can be destroyed by cutting it off and treating the 'stump' with Tordon mixed with equal parts of disiel(sp)fuel or kerosene. What I am thinking of may also be known as Virginia Creeper. However nearly any plant will succumm to d. fuel or kerosene.

Glechoma hederacea is creeping charlie.

http://www.hort.wisc.edu/mastergardener/Features/weeds/creepingcharlie/creepcharlie.htm

Ok, this is a plant I have a love/dislike relationship with. I had to import it from a friend's yard in town to get it but find it is a wonderful plant to have in many of my flower beds. I do have to control it by pulling it back around some plants that would succumm to it, but daylilies, peonies, iris, spiderwort, etc. do fine with it and it saves me a lot of weeding. I have also found that few insects like to be around it. So I like to grow it round the edges of and between my raised beds and in the grape vine and blackberry rows. You see, even some of the so called bad plants have a place in the world. Now if I could just find a justification for Spanish Needle, Stinging Nettle, Canadian Thistle and Stick Tights! Other than all but the Stinging Nettle have some beauty to the plants or blooms.

bigcityal - do you realize what else Certainty Turf Herbicide kills? Nutsedge! That's right folks. Nutsedge! I do not believe this. I am over the moon. How can the average Joe get their hands on this stuff or is it for golf course managers or other licensed applicators only?
This is an excerpt from a web site called "Golfdom".

"Superintendents in both warm- and cool-season geographies will discover Monsanto Co.'s treatment for annual and perennial sedge, grasses and broadleaf weeds. Certainty Turf Herbicide replaces Manager Herbicide and offers a wider spectrum of weed control against yellow and purple nutsedge, the Kylinga species, Poa annua, Poa trivialis and many broadleaves, including white clover. "Certainty offers one of the first viable options for superintendents to use in addressing Poa trivialis," Scott Helms, Monsanto's manager of U.S. Selective Chemistry & IT&O Marketing, says"

Nutsedge is a HUGE problem for me. My neighbor to the south has an entire back forty of the stuff and it just keeps on coming. I have been hand pulling & digging. Horribly tedious.

I've had stuff for nutsedge(Manage), I don't use it unless it's profitable - it costs $9 a gallon of made up spray - -it works great. I just realized that label didn't list quackgrass - it did at the store. Truly hard to beleive one product can kill quack,tall fescue and bentgrass. I'll try it this fall to find out.
Lesco is out of Ohio so I am asuuming you have stores around there.

Invasive nutsedge is in my flower beds--planning on using a product called SedgeHammer for it, but it calls for nonionic surfactant??? Has anyone tried liquid dish detergent as the nonionic surfactant? How much did you use? I know many years ago I used it with another plant spray, but it was just a few drops of the Dawn.

Liquid detergents do contain nonionic surfactants. I've never used it for that purpose. A long time ago I bought a tiny bottle called "spreader sticker" and I've stuck with that. No pun intended!

http://provico.stores.yahoo.net/spst.html

Dawn works on waxy coated weeds that are hard to kill, not nutsedge. The sticker is the best, I was recommended MSO(methylated seed oil) and it works good.

Did you guys see that Monsanto's patent ran out on Glycosphate / roundup
so you can now get the generic brand really cheap? Like $15 for same
concentrate quantity as roundup at $40.

Tam

Whoa! Now that's some good news!

Well, I see I've found this thread a little late, but thought I'd add a reply anyhow. Equilibrium, does that Fusilade kill only grass? Can I use it in my perennial beds? I, too, have a big problem with quack grass here and there, which we also call witch grass. I have been working on renovating gardens, and have to double dig them to get all the roots out. Even so, it still keeps coming back. In some gardens it's easy to control, but others where the soil is more moisture retentive and seems to become compacted quicker it is nearly impossible to pull out by the roots. It will grow right through the tuberous roots of daylilies. This is one invasive I don't think I will ever be rid of.

Karen

Tammy, What is the generic name of the Round-up?
Jan in Central Illinois

Glyphosate is the active ingredient. Not sure what's up on the consumer level, but Monsato bought up all the glyphosate made for this year I heard.

I bought a bottle of glyphosate concentrate at a Lowes last month. So they didn't
get it all. Its in a red bottle with brand "Ultra-Kill" and is called a "Weed & Grass Killer
concentrate" It says that it contains 41% glyphosate & makes 21 gallons. I believe
it was $15

Tam

Thanks, I'll be going to town this afternoon, so will stop at Lowes & see if I can find some.

I called my lawn service today to complain about all the crab grass and was informed I have quack grass and red thread grass. I was online tonight to learn more about both and was thrilled to find this discussion.

What can anyone tell me about red thread grass? I can't find it in the Plant Files.

Could it perhaps be red thread disease?


http://www.plantpath.iastate.edu/pdc/node/130

Nope. What I have is fan shaped sprays of invasive grass that are reddish near the soil. Not too tall (maybe 6 inches) and fat fuzzy seed heads.

Can you post a picture? I have a feeling there's probably another more common name for it. Only thing I found when I googled for red thread grass was the disease.

It's one of the rye grasses. I don't think your lawn service is doing its part of the job as well as it should if you are watering properly and mowing at the right height. The right fertilization and maintenance program should encourage the desirable grasses so that the undesirable grasses, with the exception of quack grass, being crowded out over a period of time. Quack grass is a problem. I dug mine out by hand and spot seeded, but my lawn wasn't overly large and the quack grass hadn't gotten too great a hold. I used a chemical treatment in the flower beds where the quack grass had really threatened.

Sorry, never saw replies here. The answer is yes and another yes.

Hey! Equil! Nice to hear from you!!

Thanks, Equilibrium. That's good to know I can use it on my perennial beds without having to worry about it killing my good plants.

Karen

How be you snapple! Stopped in for a visit, not much going on in trees but a little bit in invasives. I just love to hate invasives. Gives me warm fuzzies when people nuke them.

Say duck_toller, see if you've got Echinochloa crus-galli. Here are two photos-
http://mint.ippc.orst.edu/images/barngrassm_i.jpg
http://www.hort.iastate.edu/courses/syllabi/hort351l/weeds/barnyardgrass.jpg
and another photo of the seeds-
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/plants/mnplant/gifs/echicrus.jpg
this hand pulls up easily for me with no chemicals at all and I simply toss it in the garbage. Don't let it go to seed or you'll be sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry. If this isn't what you have, you do need to post a photo otherwise everyone will just be taking stabs in the dark.

Say nutsfordaylily, there's a ready to use product that should work just as well as Poast or Fusilade. Try Ortho's GrassBGon. Please use it sparingly for reasons I'm too tired and crabby (pun intended) to get into. Lightly spray the area when you see a weather forecast in which the daytime air temps for the week will be above 60 but below 80 and then wait a good 2 weeks before you do anything. This product takes at least 10 days to begin working on the grass so don't give up hope simply because it's not working as fast as you thought it might. After about 2 weeks, go ahead and lightly re-spray any grass that doesn't look as if it's on its way to grass heaven.

Backing up a bit to grden4yrs, "planning on using a product called SedgeHammer for it, but it calls for nonionic surfactant???" You could use Joy or Dawn dishwashing detergent but as Al suggested, I don't believe it would be nearly as effective as using this product-
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=1891

And there are lots of generic RoundUp products hitting the market these days. Too many to list off but I don't use any of them. Not all that comfortable with the surfactants in them. Am rather insulted that Monsanto uses different surfactants in their European formulations than they do in their American formulations and really don't like the POEA (polyethoxylated tallowamine) in the RoundUp or the knock off products so I've been using Accord and Rodeo these days with nonionic surfactants exclusively. Active ingredient is glyphosate however my kids can basically roll around in any area I've treated.

Good info, Equilibrium. I may try the Ortho GrassBGone. I have used the same company's WeedBGone on my lawn, and it works very well.

Karen

Echinochloa crus-galli Huh! Well I learned something today. Thanks Equil!

The photo from Iowa State is absolutely what I have. The photos on DG http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/32207/ are not as accurate. Barnyard Grass ... wonderful (not). Wonder if the seeds are coming from the vacant lot above us or the farm across the highway? You are correct that it pulls up easily but I have more than an acre of lawn with this stuff interspersed with the good grass so I can feel the back-ache coming on already.

So I have crab grass, quack grass, and now barnyard grass ... oh a a little bit of kentucky blue mixed with rye. Isnt' that nice?

I found this link on quack grass and realize I have it too...sigh
http://www.american-lawns.com/problems/weeds/quackgrass.html

Umm yes, very nice indeed. I've got more than an acre of lawn too. My back doesn't like barnyard or crab grass either. My back gave up on me trying to dig up quack grass so that gets happy juice these days. I never was getting it all and after a while of trying to deal with that non-chemically, my husband said it was starting to look like a movie set to Caddy Shack... remember that scene with the gopher? Well, that's what my yard started looking like. I tried to fill back in the holes and re-seed them which aggravated the look of the front yard.

My condolences MySarona but on the other hand... misery does love company and it looks as if you've got a lot of shoulders to cry on here in this thread.

Now, I'll raise you all on the Echinochloa crus-galli by tossing Phalaris arundinacea (Reed Canary Grass) into the mix... you know that garbage plant sold as Ribbon Grass? That's my bain over here. Highly invasive. A true back breaker and to even attempt to remove that by digging it up would leave your yard looking like the movie set to Louis Sachar's "Holes". We'd be talking mini craters in your front yards- nice, eh? About all I can tell you is don't even try to remove Phalaris arundinacea non chemically unless you intend to remove hunks and chunks of your yard in order to "excavate" to pour a foundation for a detached garage or something. Bet you're jealous I've got that one snapple! I'd share it with you but friends don't share plants like that with friends even as a joke. God forbid the box break open in transit and the seed spilled out. on the brighter side of things, I don't have any bamboo over here!

I did have it! Got it out by hand digging. A LOT of hand digging. It was a gift from a neighbor that kept on giving. I got it out along with Huttuynia. The Houttuynia was actually the hardest of the three to get rid of. It took succesive spraying with Roundup. The minute new full leaves unfurled I'd spray. Nothing would happen. Spray the same leaves in 24 hours and they would crisp. Repeat when it re-sprouted. Repeat, repeat, repeat - for two years. It works by exhausting the roots. Today no Houttuynia - anywhere. You could probably use anything that would totally kill the leaves. The trick seems to be to exhaust the roots. Hopefully before you are exhausted, because you have to get the leaves as soon as they unfurl before they can produce much food. Let them get too big and and they are feeding the plant. Each successive resprout is weaker and smaller until - no more!

I told my husband we needed to use explosives. My husband was all for that plan of action. Too bad I was joking.

MySharona, I'm very glad you posted that link on the quack grass. I have many daylily beds, and now I know I cannot just spray the grass in them with the glyphosate without killing the daylilies as well. I have to use a small paintbrush and apply it directly to the grass and be very careful not to get any on the daylilies. This is true of perennials as well. You have to be careful with fusilade as well as it will kill any monocot plants (daylilies, irises, glads and lilies).

What I have been doing to control the quack grass in my gardens is basically renovate any gardens where it has become a problem. I dig and remove as many of the roots as possible, though I can't possibly get them all. I do the best I can. Any future quack grass that comes up I pull and try to remove the roots. This can be difficult if the soil has become compacted. I try not to compact the soil in my gardens, but it's a little tough when weeding to get all the weeds without having to step into the gardens in one spot or another. If I had the money, then all my gardens would have stepping stones for this purpose. I would need a lot of them for all my gardens, and I don't have access to free rocks, so I make do without.

Most people around here call it witch grass, but I Googled it, and that is an entirely different grass altogether. What I have is definitely quack grass.

One thing you could do to get rid of any kind of plant that keeps coming back and is hard to eradicate is to keep it covered for a period of time so that no light can get to it. I'm not sure, but I'd say maybe a year or 2 would do it. I'd use something like heavy tarps weighed down by rocks, and face the black side up so that the sun would cook the area covered. When you prevent plants from getting the light and water they need, then they eventually die, even the toughest ones.

Karen

Although I did not use the Poast product in by my iris or in by my daylilies, I did use the Fusilade product in those beds on numerous occasions and there were absolutely no issues. I am using Fusilade II. About the only ornamentals I have around here that are non-natives are my iris, hostas, and some daylilies. The active ingredient in Fusilade is fluazifop not glyphosate. Although you would have to hand paint the leaves of the grass if you were using a product with glyphosate as the active ingredient, I've not had to do this using the Fusilade. It's not been my experience that fluazifop has any effect on iris or daylilies or hostas and fluazifop is the same active ingredient used in GrassBGon. Can't speak for glads or lilies as I do not have any. The active ingredient in Poast is sethoxydim. I was given left overs of that from a friend to use on my quack grass but that was used in an entirely different area. Supposedly that product would have been safe to use in my iris and daylily beds. Again, I don't recall if it was safe to use on grass in and around glads or other lilies though. Poast is real hard to get a hold of. I haven't seen it for sale in years. It might be under a different name now.

Equil, that article on quack grass that MySharona posted did say that Fusilade contains fluazifop, and that it could be safely used on perennial beds, but that it could damage or kill monocots, which include daylilies, irises, glads and lilies, once it contacts the leaves.

Karen

Eeesh, don't know what to say. I've got over a thousand iris here and probably around 25 day lilies and I've used both the Fusilade and the GrassBGon on all of the iris beds to get to the grass coming up in and amongst them and I've had no issues. Let me do some checking online and see what I can find. I don't have any glads or lilies though but I can check to see what I can find on Fusilade. Gut tells me something is amiss only because I've repeatedly used two products with the active ingredient of fluazifop to rid myself of grass in those areas to avoid having to soak the beds to loosen up to lift out all the rhizomes to hand pull out the grasses only to plant them back again in fresh compost and top soil. Did that once and NEVER want to do that again because of grass getting in there.

editing to add this for Iris-
http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/dp_hfrr/extensn/problems/IrisWeedControl.htm
http://www.umass.edu/umext/floriculture/fact_sheets/specific_crops/cutweed.html
http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/CEPublications/eb1791/eb1791.html
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubs/PDF/C867-14.pdf

In reading the last link, I did just learn that Poast is now being sold under the brand name of Vantage.

adding this specifically for daylilies to add to the above-
http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/pubs/PDF/C867-13.pdf

I read her link and personal experiences of mine with these products tell me they're not going to kill my iris or my daylilies so I'd be inclined to agree with the findings above that claim we can spray a product with the active ingredient of fluazifop directly into our beds containing iris and daylilies. I've really been doing it already for at least 3 or 4 years with no ill effects.

This message was edited Sep 9, 2008 8:21 PM

Ahhh, I believe I found the original source to MySharona's link where American Lawns claimed it would damage or kill monocots-
http://www.extension.umn.edu/projects/yardandgarden/ygbriefs/h507quackgrass.html
Looks as if their horticulturist may not have actually used the product in a bed of iris or daylilies back in 1999? And it appears that article was written before more trials were conducted. The American Lawns website looks as if they cut and pasted verbatum from the old Garden Briefs-

Mystery solved.

I see! Still, I would hesitate to use in beds where I have iris, daylilies and the like. I may try it, though, in an area that is overrun with tradescantia and Kwanso daylilies, after removing enough of the Kwanzos to keep. There are far too many in there, and if the Fusilade kills or damages them, then no big deal. There is also a lot of quack grass in there, and I would like to kill it off to use that bed for bigger and better things.

Karen

Something actually kills tradescantia?! Be still my heart! Pray tell me what is this miracle potion?