I am really upset. Help!

I have over 100 JM's-the vast majority in the ground . We are in a prolonged deep freeze. It hit 30 degrees 2 nights ago, 27 last night and predicted 30 again tonight. Nearly all show extensive leaf "droop" at this point, like lettuce in the fridge that accidentally got frozen, just when everything was starting to look spectacular. Does anyone know what I can likely expect?: complete defoliation of these leaves, tree death, major branch loss, strong comeback in 3-4 weeks, any predictable affect on the fall show? You can imagine the time, love and money I have invested in JMs. I am extremely bummed.

Oh, I am so sorry. I don't know what the outcome will be because I'm not a cold weather gardener. I'm sure that someone will come along who does know. What I do know is that you aren't alone. This freeze has hit incredibly hard and you are so far south I'm sure that you never expected this.

Just wanted to send my sympathy and hope that they will bounce back from the cold.

jon we are all in the same boat whether it is sinking or not is the question ...the community as whole seems divided between doom and gloom and rays of hope ...I am a 1/2 empty guy but my gut tells me that they will shoot out new leaves but you will have some damage ...Mine are all in the ground too and my temps got worse low 20's for a couple of nights . Some say to prune off any dead leaves and droopy dead attached stems asap so it will shoot new ones from seconday buds but for you and me and that may not be practical especially on larger 20-30 footers... We are in uncharted territory here ...One "sort of" amusing antedote on this is those farther north are likely good to go and those farther south are in more trouble since from north to south the temps haven't been greatly differnt but with the March warm spell those in the south are fully leaved those in the north have NOT broken bud I am in the middle none totoally leaved but many started.(this is the opposite of "winter kill zones!!)..it is not a pretty site out there ...we will know more in a couple of weeks ...My gut tells me you will be OK ...David

Oh, David... I'm hoping that your trees will do as well as possible. They told us here that we should leave any frozen parts on our plants for at least a couple of months to see what is alive and what's not.

I imagine that frost has happened to leafed out maples in Japan over generations. Let's hope that yours are up to it.

Same here, I have a much smaller number of trees , we had a dusting of snow Fri. night, but prolonged low nightime temps. Most of them look a bit wilted, but I'm remaining optimistic, I'm going to trust that my trees have a will to survive, & I'm in this for the long haul, so if it takes them a season or two to recover, well, that's the breaks...Many of my perennials look like they will bounce back, so I'm hoping the maples will, too...

yes My thought was that leave it on a while others said take it off who knows ...It will probably be obvious as far as the leaves and twigs and those could be removed you should know whether they are dead within days!! I agree on branches which maybe what your "peeps" meant ??? Yes I can't believe this hasn't happened in JA or elsewhere I won't accept they are gonna die ...Some might that are really fragile but most others should be alright ...I looked at my Crimson queens and they had LOTS of new buds on them that looked fine and I didn't cover them at all 6 days of mid to low 20's ...but boy my Shojo nomura looks horrible ( it was covered but not well) but it is SO hardy i can't believe it wont come back ...I could be wrong but I think the doom and gloomers are are wrong for the most part...but I expect some looses which I can live with...David

All I have to offer is wishes for the damage to not be too great.

I've been lucky so far, no damage, but my temps have not been as bad as yours, hovering at freezing. Everything seems to be doing OK here. I covered up the youngest trees, but did not have enough cloth for all.

My Crimson Queen is budding out and doesn't seem to have any issues and that was the one I was most worried about due to the transplantation to a pot a couple of weeks ago.

Laura

Leaves are pretty obvious. Twigs not so much but perhaps you have a better eye than I. Some things were more damaged than I thought and some less. It just depended on the plant. I'll expect that the maples should be able to take it. I remember when I bought my suminagashi in July with almost no leaves on it and it put out new growth even then.

Hello, all! I'm in the North Carolina mountains. We got hit hard and still have one more nightmare night to get through. It's a bummer to lose the blooms we were on the verge of on all kinds of trees, BUT we went through this even worse in late May 2002. So I'm here with some good news.

Starting May 23, 2002 (good to have a garden journal!), we went through 4 nights of not only amazingly low temperatures (even for us), but also through a completely devastated garden. Since it was late May, all was leafed out, and after the four days, it literally looked like someone had taken a blow torch to all our trees and plants. Looked that way all over town in fact. It was so depressing! We didn't even know where to begin in terms of cleanup. Everything looked like candidates for the compost. (Note: live and learn--give it up and cut the hostas all the way back.)

It is true that we will not see the blooms this year on many of the Spring bloomers, and our JMs will probably not bloom either. Bummer. But the trees WILL COME BACK. It will take a while--maybe even a month--but THEY WILL BE BACK. We noticed in 2002 that some trees put on a bit smaller sized leaf than in other years, but hang in there....

PS: Do not start cutting back yet. Wait until new growth starts back up so you'll know where and what to cut.

Sorry irmaly. But it's good to know that things will recover. And your hostas recovered just fine? I know that a lot of hosta folks are pretty upset.

Luckily my 40 or so trees are inside the garage...but on a sad note it looks two of my new tiny babies ('shin deshojo' and 'filigree') are not going to make it due to transport shock :(

I can never tell which ones will not make the long trip across country, but it seems like the variegates and tender spring reds seem to be the weakest. A 'peaches and cream' didn't make it last spring, but an 'aka shigitatsu sawa' that I got in midsummer did. My 'baby lace' and 'baldsmith' that i just got seem to be fine...so who knows.

hi, doss. As for the hostas, yes, they recovered fine, BUT no leaves affected by the freeze will make it. In 2002, I experimented. I cut some back all the way and some I just tried to cut off damage. The ones I cut back all the way did the best and it spurred new growth. Having said that, the hostas were not as full that year as they had been in the past or since.

Thanks Irmaly. Yours is the most encouraging response I have heard. Having lived in NC nearly all my life I know that if JM's can survive the weather extremes in Boone, they should be able to recover from whatever Greensboro can throw at them.

My Japanese maples look pretty nasty right now...several nights in the 20's after a few inches of new growth had already grown :( All that new growth is now completely ruined. I'll have to wait for new growth now. This will set me back at least a few weeks. It really stinks. I wish I only had the low temps you did because I'm sure mine would have made it through a lot better. I had hoped to be able to have some of the growth saved...but it appears all of it is shot now. My dogwoods weren't as far along so I think most of my blooms and foliage will be ok on those.

Good luck

David: Not sure where "north" and "south" divide in your mind, but here in Cincinnati my Japanese Maple was in full leaf. Looks pretty poopy now. We had not only cold temps but incredible, unrelenting wind for days, and the wind-chill remained in the teens. Although we covered with a sheet it did no apparent good. The leaves are all limp and dead-looking. Too cold, for too long.

Prior to the cold snap we had an unusual stretch of 70-80 degrees for a couple of weeks so everything was leafing out and emerging from dormancy. The hydrangea foliage, the tall columbines are limp and plastered to the ground. Even the stems for the icelandic poppies (with big buds) are flat on the ground.

Karen

North/South is weird since zones seem to jump around...but basically those in 5a and lower maybe the 5b on the border with 5a had not pushed much as I understand it.those folks are most likely sitting pretty..you are in 6a as I am maybe 5b upper border there has been a recent zone change (me) and we are in the same boat as are many folks hundreds of miles south of us likely alot of the south ...those folks were much farther along than we were probably 2-3 or more weeks and their LOW temps surprisingly were NOT much differnt than ours ...hope that explains my comment ...David

We take a long walk almost every morning with our dogs up along the Parkway. This morning was the first we've been able to really get out there for some days now (because of strong snows, winds and cold temps) to see what the situation is. It's interesting.

As I said before, we are in the northwestern mountains of NC. We are always behind the rest of the state in getting Spring as our temps are much lower than what is typical for the South. Before the deep freeze, all that was in bloom was the forsythia, although there was quite a bit budded out. All that is lost of course. Like many other places, prior to the freeze, we had experienced a week or more of really unusual warm temps in our area--temps up in the lower 70's (VERY warm for us this time of year). That had caused a lot of things to bud out early.

But what we couldn't help but notice was that our native trees and shrubs had not been fooled in the least by this warmer weather. While the "imports" are all burned to a crisp, the natives were completely unaffected as they had refused to secumb to the seduction of the warmer temps and had not come out of their winter modes.

We have been hit very hard here in SC in places. I brought my trees in the garage...but the thermometer still read 28 this morning inside the garage (however these trees seem fine so far).
On the other hand, I took a look at my mother's 'bloodgood' and 'waterfall', and they look very bad. Not a leaf or new stem survived (and they were nearly fully leafed out with at least 2 sets of leaves throughout and fully flowering). My boss at the nursery said the worst may be ahead as the trees start to grow again. If the sap froze under the bark, the cambium could be damaged and this could kill fairly large trees. Only time will tell.

I think they'll be ok. My japanese maples had plenty foliage already but they seemed to have held back several buds on each branch that hasn't yet began to grow. Perhaps the trees figure they need a little insurance and don't send out everything at once. I'm curious if others see the same thing on their maples....several buds that haven't grown yet (but still appear healthy) even though many other buds sent out growth and new leaves.

I just mentioned that on another site... most of mine have many additional viable buds left and some even leaved under their tarps from the heat...I also think the idea of sap freezing solid at mid to upper 20 degree zone is a bit far fetched ...my open watergardens only had a bit of scattered ice on them one night and that was when it got down to around 20... there is sap in the tree all winter when it gets much colder although it is running now ...maybe in the ends of branches but I think that is a bit of a stretch that it would freeze solid in the main trunk or large branches...and then to damage the cambian layer to boot is pure speculation ...I'm not saying it is not possible but I think HIGHLY unlikely ...Time will tell but I think most of our trees will do ok especially older esablished ones ...your ebay grafts may be another matter??? David

As a side not I looked at my 5 ft scolpedrifolum today ...It was left uncovered except for two nights and days ..including the one 20degree night (5 nights uncovered at mid to upper 20's and days around 30!!!!!!) ...I didn't cover it at first because after the first "unexpected" night it was toast all totally wilted ...well today with tarp off it had literally hundreds of new good looking NEW leaves on it most likely from the tarp covering heat during the past two days.. the sieryu also had some new leaves ...I can'r speak for long term effect but I think many are being overly pessimistic ...David

OK not to monopolize this thread BUT My current NON expert advise is to wait a couple of days to remove dead leaves if you plan to do so ...wait until they are crispy and dry ...I just experimented a bit and you will likely throw out the baby with the bath water if you do NOW while just limp since it is REALLY easy to disturb and destroy any viable stuff ...on the few I experimented with that currently were crispy dry it was a breeze with a cupped hand gently removing them...and I also saw bunches of new stuff which should show up on all in a couple of days I might have wiped them out if I'd clear cut the droopy stuff...do what you widsh but IMHO this is the safest way...and what I plan to do ...one or two sunny days should do the trick ... David

Well it ain't over yet for us here. Today is still too cold to work outside high of 43. Tomorrow is supposed to be warmer but rainy. Then we get two good days (highs in lower 50's and 60's). Then, bam. Another round of sharply colder weather with nightime temps below freezing again and another chance of snow. Call me "Desperate for Spring" here in the NC mountains.

Yeah I'm not sure about the sap freezing either...but it did get to 21 outside in low open areas. I guess this would be less likely because of the dry weather we've had as well (less water to dilute the sap, which would raise the freezing temperature closer to that of pure water).

Things definetely look rough right now though as there is about 6 to 8 inches of dead new growth on most JMs that I've seen (mostly 'bloodgoods' and red laceleafs). I'm confident that they will come back but the growth will be severly stunted I would imagine. The trees used alot of energy reserves to get that much new growth. And I guess you can forget getting any seeds off of them this year since I seriously doubt they would flower again.

But anyway, I moved all of my babies (all in pots) back outside today and they look fine with the exception of a large 'tamukeyama' which may have suffered some damage.

you are right, mattlwfowler. There is all probability that the growth will be pretty stunted for the rest of the year. That's what happened here in 2002 when we got a 4-day freeze and ice event. Even worse than now, believe it or not. All came back okay, but I noticed the leaves on affected trees were MUCH smaller than they usually were.

In 2002, about one week before the bad weather event, an old-timer here said to me, "Hit's a dark of the shade. Hit's a'gonna get real cold." Boy was he right. I asked him later what exactly he meant by "It's a dark of the shade," as I always thought of shade as "dark" and was trying to figure out exactly how he calculated all this. He was never able to explain it to me. When I said, "but it's always dark in the shade," he said, "Nope. Hit's a different kind of dark."

I live in the North Georgia mountains near Dahlonega and a JM I planted in December experienced frost damage. I was kind of depressed since the new leaf growth before the frost was vibrant and had that vivid purple/red color. Now they look like wilted moss hanging from a cypress tree.

However, the above responses give me hope that it will recuperate. Great thread!

Thank you for forums like this.

The info given by Matt regarding the cambium freezing is very good. The way it was explained to me is because the tree is actively growing now, which it really isn't in the winter, and the tree is THIN BARKED, then you might sustain damage. Usually the damage won't be noticeable for a couple of months, but if you see bark starting to split on the trunk, it would probably be caused by the freeze, at exactly the wrong time of the year.

It doesn't necessarily mean you will lose the tree, but the tree would then be subject ot outside problems that can enter the tree through the split.

Brooke

Thanks for everyone’s replies. I have way more enthusiasm for JM’s than I do knowledge or experience. This freeze was a first and was quite scary. One week later I am upbeat and hopefully won’t lose any trees. I wanted to pass along a lesson I learned in case it might help someone in the future: if you cover your trees up at night, remove the cover in the morning after the temp has risen above freezing, even if you expect another freeze the next night. I made the mistake of leaving them covered for two days in black trash bags, given that the weather was windy with highs in the 40’s between freeze nights. The day after the 2nd night by the time I got home from work it was sunny and in the upper 50’s. When I lifted the bags, the entire foliage was wilted, wet, hot and smelled rotten. Fortunately I was only able to do this with my smallest trees, which have sustained much more damage than my uncovered trees. We will see if any die. Maybe everyone else has sense enough not to do this, but I had to learn the hard way. Enclosed are pictures of my once-lovely “filigree” and even more devastated “kiyo hime”

kiyo hime-could pass for collard greens

Ouch :(

Yeah, you can leave something like cheesecloth or a thin fabric over them because there is some ventilation. Plastic is a poor option (especially black) because it creates a super greenhouse environment inside. So then the trees go from 20s up into the 70s or 80s, and needless to say they don't like that.

I think thin fabric or cheeze cloth is good for frosts but for this freeze i don't think it would do much good... removing the cover is the best bet ...I used tarps got a bunch of thinner ones for .99 eacg 5'x7 ' not really big enough for some had to double up they aren't quite as hot house as heavy plastic...But I still had some 'composting' out of lazyness but we had very little day sun and it was so stinkin cold I didn't want to remove them and to keep takeing off and putting on 60+ tarps is too much work even to an addict like me!!. I learned long ago to getr those black plastic covers off as soon as temps are 32 in the morn from my late frost gardening days I used 200ft rools 20 ft wide what a chore i have toasted my sweet potatoes in the fall several times trying to extend the season ...Sorry Jon I did post either here or at garden web tio REMOVE the cover at 32 especially if sunny you must have missed it yah it doubles your misery to freeze 'em and then toast them ....David

This message was edited Apr 14, 2007 4:27 PM

I know I'm chiming in late, but I'm in the same boat. Fortunately, I have an unheated greenhouse full of one-gallons that made it through with very, very minor cosmetic damage to the trees on the outer edge. My JM trees in the landscape are a totally different story.

To add to the discussion, our county extension agent has been sending out notes to the nurseries and landscapers in the area saying to keep a close eye out for insects and fungus that will take advantage of the stressed trees this year. So, stock up on some insecticidal soap and fungicide. He recommended the fungicide, Phyton 27 (Copper Sulphate Pentahydrate), to the trade, but I'm not sure it's available to the general public.
Kelly, PendulousPlants.Com

Oh, Kelly I hope that your inventory recovers. Phyton 27 is available to the public on the internet.

I would imagine phyton 27 is also available at most nurseries, however I could be wrong. Our nursery carries it as well as others but I haven't had much experience with others.

Sigh. It is snowing here today. Get a load of our local forecast:

"...Temperatures were steady this morning but began to crash around noon. Rain showers will change to snow showers between now and 4 PM from west to east and top to bottom. A bit of hail and a rumble of thunder is not out of the question through mid afternoon. Snow showers will continue tonight and end Monday morning...by Monday morning 1"-4" will be common...with mountaintops getting 6"+.

Another major effect from this storm will be an extended period of strong winds. This afternoon expect NW winds to increase to 25-35 mph with gusts to 60 mph; that continues through Monday into early Tuesday. Gusts Monday may top 65 mph."

Geez. Enough already.

I read the comments about phyton 27, but in a previous forum some of you thought it was unnecessary for the HOME gardener for ROUTINE use. Are you more in favor of using it after freeze damage?

It is VERY expensive I wouldn't use it as a preventative if I were you but if you see some questionable activities like blackening areas or other fungal stuff it may be useful...my opinion ( for what it's worth ) the LESS you do to these plants in this condition the better...and take a watchful waiting approach keeping a very close eye on them til fall ...but thats just me there are plenty of other cheaper fungicides and just plain copper sulfate be careful with anything that has captain ..use on leaves when the temps are above i believe 70 can burn 'em to a crisp your plants will be stressed but not necesarily more prone to disease or fungus since yours are will established and older I'd be more watchful of new smaller stuff..just my opinion though . ...David

your opinion makes sense and is kind of what I wanted to hear. I will follow your advice. One's instinct is to take a "don't just stand there, do something" approach when mother nature usually knows best.