Puzzling dilemma ....

This is going to sound really strange, but I have found what looks like caterpillar poop two days in a row right under a large shade loving Penta. (White flowers.) And my Penta leaves are pretty ate up!

Now what gets me about this mystery is the SIZE of the poop. It's larger than any droppings from any cat I have ever raised. I looked today and yesterday on the Penta to try to find a cat. But I don't know what it is I am looking for. And I couldn't find anything.

Does anyone know what butterfly or moth species might be use Penta for a host plant?

And here's a photo of the droppings so you can see how large they are.

Whatever it is ..... it's gotta be a BIG cat!!!

Do you get tomato worms down there?

threegardeners - I don't know what tomatoe worms are. I don't grow tomatoes in my yard and I live in a residential neighborhood, not an agricultural farm area. Would these worms eat Penta leaves?

They are a cat that like tomatoes...can be 6 inches long...they might like pentas...they love my nicotine...they turn into a hummingbird moth I believe

From my experience with tomato worms -- I'm thinking you're talking about hornworms -- they'd have done a LOT more damage to the plant. They eat the entire leaf, then go on to the next.

http://davesgarden.com/bf/showimage/426/
this is it here

I have seen them do damage like she has shown....they don't always, in my experience, eat an entire leaf...I once counted 35 of them in my nicotine patch....but I have seen only one at times as well

This message was edited Apr 4, 2007 5:11 PM

Here's another -- http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/527256/

There are 2 kinds, one with a red horn and one with a black horn (which are totally harmless) but they do the same kind of damage.

Edited to say, just my experience and I'm sure you're right. It depends on the situation. But they're voracious.

This message was edited Apr 4, 2007 4:12 PM

Oh my gosh! The thread that brigidlily listed shows a cat on QueenB's finger that is HUGE!!!! I will look again to see if I can't find something that looks like that on my Penta. I do see the Moths that I mistake for hummers in my yard. So perhaps it is a Horn worm or something similar. I don't mind it eating my plant, I was just hoping to figure out what would leave droppings that LARGE!

Thanks threegardeners and brigidlily!!! I appreciate your help in trying to determine what cat I might have. Thank you!!! :-) :-)

If you disturb them, you can hear them...they make a loud clicking noise...hope you have them....I love those moths

Well guess what ...................... I found this little cat on my Penta! Though I think the one that left the poop was much, much bigger!!!!

I am soooooooooo EXCITED!!!! Whoo hoo!

Here's a photo. Sorry it is not a better shot. But you can kind of see what it looks like. Now I need a definite ID for this creature. Anyone care to guess?

looks like a hornworm...I've seen em all different sizes

Do you get Pluto Sphinx Moths there? They use pentas as a larval host too. They also use Firebush (Hamelia patens) - which is great because I have hedges of that lining both sides of my driveway.

I think Tersa Sphinx use pentas also. Will have to check Wagner's book.

~ Cat

This message was edited Apr 4, 2007 5:28 PM

This cat looks like it has 2 eye spots at the front of it. I think I have seen this one in a photo. When it is bigger, it looks like a "green" snake head. I can not remember what the name is for the life of me.

Cat - I think you've had them in the past.

This message was edited Apr 4, 2007 6:38 PM

Probably a Tersa.

http://melanys.tripod.com/Sphinx.htm

http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/239

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/butterfly/msg0913594319638.html?4

I was going to say you have a horse in your garden lol.
I agree, looks like a Tersa, the green form.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bugguide.net/images/cache/JKWRRQ9R7QDQN0Q0P000W0DR90DRE0S0G03QM0TQZQVRYKVRG000W0DRIQL0P000SQL060K0U000IQS00Q3RN0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bugguide.net/node/view/3651&h=373&w=560&sz=26&hl=en&start=5&tbnid=qvaDwVncPhFN-M:&tbnh=89&tbnw=133&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtersa%2Bsphinx%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DDNUS,DNUS:2006-36,DNUS:en

Thanks to y'all, I have a species of moth that I can now ID!!!!

It is definitely the Tersa Sphinx Moth. I was able to ID it from Rox's link photo. It looks EXACTLY like the one in the photo!!! :-) :-) Thanks, Roxanne!!!

This is really amazing that I have plants that I was not expecting to be host plants in my gardens! So Nasturtiums and Pentas are host plants! I would have never guessed them to be! So there ya go Butterfly and Moth gardeners ..... two more plants that you might consider adding to your gardens!!!!

I just love these kind of surprises!!!! :-)

I just found an interesting site about them:
http://www.birds-n-garden.com/tersa_sphinx_hummingbird_moths.html

Aww Becky how cute!! Congrats!

Here's a photo I took of both the green and brown Tersa cats. Have no idea what the plant is they were on...but there was about six cats on it. Something native is all I can remember :o) This is not in my yard but at a local butterfly park.

~ Cat

This message was edited Apr 5, 2007 10:06 PM

Oh Cat~~

2-too cute!

Cat - Yes! Looks very much like the one I found on my Penta plant. I think the larger cat may have already gone underground to turn into a chrysalis.

Do you know why they turn a certain color during the cat stage? They are very cool looking, IMHO!!!

Thanks for sharing those pics, Cat! :-) Amazing how they look to warding off predators! Their markings make them look like a snake or something less desirable to birds or wasps! :-)

I took a photo of the Tersa Spinx Moth cat tonight. He's gotten considerably larger and he turned brown in color! I love the eye spots on his back! Does anyone know how long/large they get before the chrysalis stage?

Another interesting thing about this cat is that I have not seen any shed old instar skin left behind and have not seen him going into the next instar stage. This cat is a bit different than what I normally raise. But I love new challenges!!!

Cuteness!!

:-) Good job Becky!

Take a look at this BIG boy!!! He is the coolest caterpillar I have ever raised! He's heavy, he's big (almost the size of my finger), and he's got some great markings on his body!!! My class and a number of other classes that have seen him think he rules in the cat world! LOL!

Here's another photo!

Front view of this cat!

He's very cool and handsome! I don't know about the time before he pupates, but the Hawk Moth can fly up to 25 mph!

Teenage morpho ninja cats!! lol. (Right at last stage....teenager.)
And its a REAL metomorphosis, not an imaginary (mutant) one. They go behind a veil to do it...Maybe this is one thing science will never be able to copy.... That's why I love what we do so much..... Resurrecting..Complete change..these are real to us!



Wonderful shots Becky!!~

Great photos! It's turning into a big bugger :o) Seems like it will be ready to pupate any day now. Put some shredded paper towels or dried leaves into your cat cage or put a small box of soil (fairly dry - not soggy at all). When the caterpillar is ready it will start silking the paper towels together to make a nest...after a day or two take a peek. Once it has completely turned into a cocoon you can just lay it under a couple of small pieces of paper towels. Nothing too heavy...the moth will need to crawl out when it emerges. If you decide to put in a dish or small box of soil the caterpillar will bury itself and pupate. After a day or two you can gently move the soil around to find the cocoon. You can add a drop or two of water to the paper towels each day or to the soil to retain moisture. Just a couple of drops - don't soak them :o) Excess moisture can breed bacteria and mold.

Will take about 8-10 days for it to emerge from the cocoon. Depends on your weather. If it's too cold it will probably take longer.

Had a large chunk of wet floral foam in a cat cage holding branches of the larval host plant. A caterpillar bore right through the wet floral foam! Freakiest thing. It made several tunnels before it decided to come back out and pupate under the shredded paper towels. Looked like a maze when I cut the floral foam apart. :o)

~ Cat

Well, I added some sand to the cage and some more fresh leaves. It wasn't interested in burying itself in the sand. It instead kind of wrapped the leaves around itself with some silk threads and is now changing. It's gotten a little shorter and fatter. I thought that was interesting that it wasn't interested in the sand at all.

Yeah, sometimes they don't like soil at all. I find cocoon under the mulch and under the leaves that gather around my firebush hedges. The paper towels and leaves work better in my opinion. Don't have to worry about critters in the soil or bacteria etc.

Keep us posted :o)

~ Cat

This Five-Spotted Hawkmoth (Manduca Quinquemaculata) emerged earlier this week. As you can tell by the standard size brick it's on...it was a big 'un ;o) It has five sets of yellow spots on the body :o)

He's a beaut! Love those Hawkmoths, don't they look like jet fighter planes?

The hornworm cat I had last year dug into a pot of dirt to pupate.

Cat - That moth is gorgeous! Love those spots. I agree with Rox that they look like a jet! lol

Karen - Is that the same species of cat that I have? It kind of looks like it. Great photo. I wished my camera had a macro lense on it.

I am hoping the cat is a chrysalis soon. I will post a photo of what it looks like at that stage. He's a big boy! That's for sure! lol My family says that he is "ugly badddddd!" I think he's cute in an ugly sort of way! Ya know .... he's got a face that only a mother could love. :-)

Great stuff you all!! I am really enjoying this thread Becky!

Here is another: It was a tomato hornworm

Ladies!
Great info and pictures!
~Adrienne

That big ole' moth caterpillar FINALLY became a chrysalis today after about 2-3 days of just laying there like it was dead. It's a big chrysalis!!!

This is the upside of the chrysalis.

This is what it looks like on the bottom of the chyrsalis. The small pile next to it is the shedded skin as it morphed. Pretty wild looking, huh?!!!