19 degrees this weekend

It is forecast to be down to 19 degrees this weekend. I have just started to see some germinationin my containers. Will this cold hurt them? Should I bring them indoors? This is my first year for wsing ( as you experienced people can probably quess.LOL) and I don't know what I should do with them. Thanks, Lou

I'm as new as you are at wintersowing, dispatcher, plus - my thermometer is not being as adventurous as yours is. But, if it's poppies that have germinated, I'll bet they'll be fine out there. As for the rest, since your seedlings are so close to the beginnings of germination, I'll bet they won't notice what the thermometer is up to. Are the tops still on and not too vented?

Yes, the tops are still on all of them. They are about half annuals and half perennials. Thanks, Lou

Since I have not been through this part of the wintersowing experience before, plus am a self-proclaimed "fusspot", my uneducated instinct would be to throw a tarp over the containers at night.

Would love to hear what the experts have to say about this.

Here, temps are forecast to be 19 Thurs night, 16 Friday night and 20 Saturday night. If the "fusspot" in me wins out over the curious cat in me, I will throw a tarp over my topless containers, and put a sheet between the plastic of the tarp and the open containers that would provide a little more cushioning insulation against possible frost. A paperbag between a 30-gal trash bag and containers would do the same thing. I can't say right now whether the fusspot will put back the tops.

Let's post the results, Dispatcher, one way or the other. I've got extra seed...

right now, most of mine are topless, but i've got the tops in the garage
I'll be leaving out everything except my morning glories - just because i dont want to lose anymore (a few have died) Though the remainder of my containers are on my covered front porch, out of the elements - except for the temps.... but ours will not be as cold as yours... they are guessing 20's for here.... *just checked weather.com* and it looks like 21 for Fri and 20 for Sat, with next Tuesday back to 40's over night and 50's during the day... so about 5 days of cold.

The much needed rain in my area starting tonight will usher in the colder temps. So, the Mid-Atlantic is going from a high of 70 degrees today to around 51 tonight. Then the temps will steadily get colder from Thursday through the early part of next week. Even with the day time temps hovering around 50, the temps at night will be in the high 20's - low 30's. Mother Nature isn't quit done with Winter yet....

If my MG's sprout before the cold descends on my area, I'll leave them out during the day and move them to my unheated garage at night. That's all the pampering they're getting from me! The rest of my seedlings will have to fend for themselves.

I moved all of mine into my unheated garage last night, as we were supposted to have stoms with very high winds.....which never materialized.....so I will bring them back out this morning. This is my first year also at WSing; and I have many seedlings. I wondered if covering them up would be enough to survive temps down in the low 20's, as predicted for the next week in NW Ohio.

Our temps are in the low 20s at night now and will be for the next week so I brought all my containers into our unheated garage yesterday afternoon. I have about 80% germination, some seedlings are 2-3 inches tall. I've left the clear plastic tops on all of the aluminum pans but the jugs have never had lids on them. I can't bring myself to take the chance my little babies might die in the freezing temps. Do any of you experienced WSers know if seedlings will die from the cold even with lids on the containers? Maybe I'll try putting just one out for the night. Keeping fingers crossed.

here are my "sad" sunflowers. They didnt look this bad this morning.... by 2pm, they felt like wilted lettuce... so I brought them in.

Sad little sunflowers; I hope your perk up! I just covered my up with blankets (already in the garage). There are so many that are doing so well 2-3 inches; I couldn't stand to leave them outside at night when it is 20 degrees. I may try to take them out tomorrow if the sun shines.

I hope my guys make it. They are on my deck. I put them all close together, then covered them with the burlap I had from the winter. I sure hope that's enough! I would just die if they all die. I might have to add a blanket.
What does anyone think.............?

Hey Y'all. I started a thread up there ^ (or maybe now it's down there v) about this very same thing. By the time I got home from work I figured the damage was already done, so it's all up to Ma Nature now. My fingers are crossed for all of us.

La

I hope all my babys survive, I woke up this morning and poked my head out just long enough to snap a picture, Was so hoping we wouldn't be getting any more snow, my containers still have the lids on them so I hope its enough to protect the ones that have sprouted. I got most of the flowers in the yard covered with leaves and mulch before the weather took another nose dive :(

tc, I don't know what it is about clay pots, but when I use them my plants start dying in them so I use plastic pots.

Connie

Connie,

those are Peat pots.

but they perked up in about 2 hrs of being in the house... my MG's too, but some did die.
about 2/3 of my containers are still out on my front porch, huddled together, though they are at least out of the wind -- some are only 0.25" tall, so i think they should be ok, when i peeked at them about 6.30 this morning, they still looked good. (I think they are all perennials) I have the other 1/3 of my containers in my unheated sun room.... it gets cold in there, but not as cold as outside... that is where i had the MG's that all wilted and a few died.

it's 28 right now, but sunny -- so the ones on the porch will get some sun today at least....but our coldest weather has not gotten here yet... Fri & sat i think.

Seedlings are still sprouting here and am keeping track of dates of sowing and germination - hope everyone else is taking enough notes that we can share the results of how well our sprouts survive these coming lows. Mine are all either winter-hardy perennials in our zone or hardy annuals - I haven't sowed any tender annuals yet outdoors.

Nikki, I'm like you - I just have questions right now. I hesitate to bring in my sprouts and expose them to warm indoor temps (but none of them are frost tender anyway). Do you have any sprouts other than hardy perennials or hardy annuals like snapdragons, centaurea, or poppies? If not, I would gamble on leaving your sprouts outside with their tops back on and a tarp thrown over - unless you have somewhere like an unheated garage. (I can't find the reference, but I once read that petunias will keep blooming in the fall down to 27*F.)

I'm wondering if the harshest test of the wintersowing method might be this "in-between-time" down-swing of temps to annuals not particularly fond of cold temperatures that have already sprouted. Will anyone be able to leave out a pot or two of that sort of thing just to see what happens? I see some have sprouts of morning glories and sunflowers - has anyone tried others, too?

In the local woods, a relative of impatiens - Jewelweed - has germinated. The ones I saw just had the first 2 leaves called cotyledons which are embryonic leaves but not "true" leaves. Even if they freeze, though, Mother Nature has another survival trick up her sleeves that has to do with not all members of a species behaving exactly the same. For jewelweed, that means that not all seeds will germinate at the same time; so that if these seedlings get frost killed, there will be more germinating over the next few days and possibly weeks. Well, Darwin articulated this phenomen into a theory call "variation of the species" - here's the whole book free and online: http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/results

I left two of my containers out last night in low-20 degree temps. This morning they are looking frozen but still upright. All of my other containers (67) are in the unheated garage in front of a window that gets some light. I'm keeping a diary of my WS experience, dates of planting and germination and now life-saving measures.

I brought two WS plants into my basement where I'm growing tomato seeds under grow lights (a Love in a Mist which is about 4" tall and a Bachelor Button which is about 5" tall). I potted them up to peat pots and they are doing well. I'm hoping they won't lose their vigor now that they're warmer. I'll set them outside again as soon as the temps get back up above freezing.

I also planted some jewelweed in a shady flowerbed in February specifically to mix a remedy for poison ivy which I am highly allergic to. I thought I saw some sprouts a few weeks ago, but they could have been weeds, not sure. I planted alot of seed though so if they freeze and die more should germinate as you (Bluespiral) stated in your post.

There were so many plants growing and doing well in my garden before all this cold weather. My tulips and daffodils look terrible, Walker's low collapsed on itself, and lilies look shocked. I'm disheartened.

Di

Don't be disheartened, Peachykeen. Mother Nature is just throwing a curve ball at us. This cold weather won't last too much longer.

I've left all my containers exactly where they've been. The ones that have germinated have their tops off. I haven't thrown a tarp on them yet. (No frost this morning). They'll just have to fend for themselves! If some of them are weakened or die off because of the cold temps, then I don't want them in my garden any way. Remember, Mother Nature is culling them for us. Other seeds will sprout, but only the hardiest ones will be planted out in my garden.

My problem is the ones that are already planted out in my garden. I will just have to see what happens. I have quite a few things already moved. I can just hear my father now, "Always wait until after Easter in Alabama!" But some of my seedlings were getting so big I was afraid root development was going to be hampered if I didn't plant them out. I know I will be restarting some morning glories and hyacinth bean vine, and fortunately, I have extra seed...

I just checked on my 3 containers of Cosmos... they were all wilty too. and since i didn't want to possibly lose ALL of them, i brought them in too.... all my other seedlings look fine.... possibly because they are smaller??
all the ones that were not doing well were the larger/taller seedlings.... well, they also are annuals.

I'll have to make note to sow them later in the spring i guess.

Shirley is my guru, so if she's not putting on tops and tarp, then I won't either - for tonight, at least. I have to say that curiosity has the best of me. I expect sprouts of the following winter-hardy sages to be fine after tonight:

S. cyanescens
S. dorrii
S. jurisicii
S. transylvanica

But I will be curious about the following sages that normally die back with autumn frosts:

S. coccinea alba
S. farinacea

Tomorrow morning should be vewwwwwy interesting.

Shirley, do you have sprouts of morning glories? Would like to know which species, if possible.

Lizren, do you have anything you can invert over the seedlings you planted out in the open ground that are not known to be cold hardy? I'm thinking cardboard boxes, big pickle jars, large pots, etc. - anchored down. Those woven polyester floating row covers have different insulating capacities, but anything like that might help. And then there's tarps...and sheets...and newspaper anchored down, etc. I bet you won't need to do this with poppies.

Peachykeen, I have sprouts of bachelor's button and love in a mist. I sowed them in those booty-bag contraptions that are tied around water bottles - http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Loot_Bag_Tents.html . The one problem I've had with them so far that I have not had with the milk jugs or qt-size yogurt containers is that algae forms in them, whereas it is not a problem in the other containers. But so far, the seedlings look fine. I better do a better job of sterilizing the germinating medium next year. Anyhoo, if mine are all right after these temps reach their lowest, then we can strike these 2 plants off the pamper list.

You know what would be a good idea for a sticky at the beginning of this forum? A list of hardy annuals - these are the ones that can take a few frosts, unlike more tender ones like cosmos, zinnia, annual sunflower, certain morning glory species, etc. It would be one less thing for us newbies (and future ones) to worry about, if we knew which ones were hardy annuals. I'll try to post a list of hardy annuals later on tonight.

Quoted from Shirley:

"They'll just have to fend for themselves! If some of them are weakened or die off because of the cold temps, then I don't want them in my garden any way. Remember, Mother Nature is culling them for us. Other seeds will sprout, but only the hardiest ones will be planted out in my garden."

That's Darwin's "natural selection" at work - the only things we lack right now are lab coats lol

I did not do this!!! My DH carried all my wintersowing containers into the house this evening, because we are expecting a freeze of about 26F - after a high yesterday of 80+, today 56F. Now I think it is too late to take them back out. The house will be at 62 over night.

Any thoughts? More of the same coldness expected tomorrow and day after tomorrow.

I hope this is not going to throw a wrench into my best laid plans

we are supposed to hit 19°tonight, 21 tomorrow, then 25... and slowly warming from then on.
so hopefully all the seedlings i have outside will survive the next 2 days.

Yes, it's a link to a page at Garden Web:

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/wtrsow/2002091746008623.html

There is a big difference between 29 degrees and 24 degrees. Or 20. Or 19. Or 18. Or 17. Big, BIG difference. Althought the plants on Trudi's list of HAs can take some degree of cold, I doubt more than a handful can go down into the teens once they've germinated.

(I just added all those numbers because the local weather stations are predicintg record lows down to 16 and 17 Friday and Sat nights and the former 5-day cold snap lasting into the beginning of next week. I sure hope they are wrong!)

Suzy

It may be a binary situation for the sprouts, as in frozen or not, able to withstand freezing or not, et cetera... I wonder if a seedling can tell the difference between 16 and 26? Not literally but you get the idea.
?

some of the containers on my porch, that do not have lids... i poked the soil and it is not frozen... just cold. and the sprouts in there are about .25" or so... and they don't seem effected - though i have not been out to check them yet this morning.

I checked on my containers, and all was well with the exception of a cosmos. and i mean just 1. that was the only seedling in the container (the container was one from 3 types of popcorn, so there are 3 different seed types)

the partition with the cosmos, had 1 seedling and hopefully all the other seeds are OK, and no moldy/rotted and may still germinate. the other 2 partitions have babys breath and coreopsis -- which still looked OK.

i think the worst is over.

The worst is yet to come for us- lows in the teens tonight and tomorrow night. Most of my jugs are now happily in the garage. I have some tenders sprouted- several types of zinnia (sown 3/31, germinated in 2 days), some climbing nasties which got too big for a lid long ago (about 3 in tall now), any many things just too big for a lid (melampodium). So I think these HAVE to be in the garage as there's no other choice. About 15 or 20 are still outside- some of these haven't germinated yet and some have very, very, tiny sprouts.

I'm not thrilled about these flowers all camping out in my parking space in the garage. I'm having to park my car in the driveway and was out there scraping frost from my windshield at 6:10 a.m. today to go to work.

Karen

Things did not look well inside my jugs today :(

Lala: Maybe they'll perk up later when it warms up, don't pitch them yet. Some might have a little frost damage like brown, burned-looking leaves and they can recover from that. But I think if they're mushy, they're history. I had some lupines last year that froze and just turned to a mushy slimy mess.

How cold did it get? They predicted the teens here last night but it was 26 when I first looked at the weather this morning. I don't think it got as cold here as it was supposed to.

Good luck and let us know how they fare.

Karen

I haven't checked my four outdoor containers yet this morning... it's 17 degrees... too dang cold! The garage is a toasty 40 degrees though so the rest of the bunch are doing fine.

Do frozen tulip buds ever recover? Maybe that's a question for another thread.

Di

Clementine, I don't think a night (or two) of house temps will undo their cold-hardiness... they just can't come inside for a week and then go back out without a hardening-off process.

I don't think it's been as cold here as some of the predictions, either, but my WS containers seem fine in their new location (on the patio, against the south-facing foundation -- more sheltered, plus they get any stored heat from the concrete of the pation & foundation).

Di, if the tulip buds aren't mush, you might still see something from them I think, although it's hard to say if the blooms were damaged inside the sepals or not... my fingers are crossed!

Those in my garage are still in an unheated area- I'd bet the temp is only in the 30s. Big advantage is no biting wind. But I was freezing out in the garage checking on them early this a.m. I looked really good too- hair sticking straight up, polartec jammies and a polartec robe that's so think I look like a fuzzy bear. And the polartec ankle-high slippers really add a nice finishing touch. Anyway, I was still cold in the garage so the seedlings aren't exactly warm, either, but they look happy. When it warms up some I'll open the garage doors to give them some sunshine (if the sun cooperates)

Karen

Critterologist - Report from NC - yesterday we put all the containers out into the sun in the morning, then back in late at night.

But last night we had SNOW - I have lived in NC for over 30 years and have never seen snow here at this time of the year. Temps went only to 30 here. But it is very windy. Nonetheless, the seedlings are all outside again, except for tomatoes, which I put on a window sill. I go out on the prorch every hour to check and talk to them. They look ok so far.

We expect at least two more freezing nights, possibly three. I will report back how my "garden" came through this.

Talk about Mother Nature throwing a monkey wrench at all of us with these freezing temps, but this is only TEMPORARY! It will pass!!

I have about 60 ws containers still sitting on my deck outside (which faces East) and the only containers I moved to my unheated garage were my sprouted Tomatoes.

Yes, covering the containers with lids, a tarp, plastic, old sheets, blankets are all ways to protect the sprouting foliage. Placing the containers along a South or West wall near your house is also a very good idea during this cold snap. However, I disagree about moving them inside to a heated house. Not only is this a lot of work, but why do you want to weaken their stems? Do you want hardy or weak plants in your garden? Don't you want Mother Nature to do the culling for you? I want plants that can take anything that Mother Nature throws at them. I'm not talking about tropicals, but everything else needs to be able to withstand the cold & freezing temps for a few days or I'm not planting and growing it in my garden.....just my 2 cents worth.

Blue: I last checked my containers Friday evening and my Japanese MG's haven't sprouted yet. Those seeds are waiting for the soil inside the container to warm up to around 60 degrees. Then they will sprout and grow rapidly.

This message was edited Apr 7, 2007 4:52 PM

Shirley: What's you temperature today in Md?

>>I disagree about moving them inside to a heated house

Shirley,

i understand what you are saying -- and i did lose a few plants (including all my babys breath)
but i was not going to lose 40 morning glories in one fell swoop -- plus they were all my seeds.

I did grab another huge pack of seeds at Menards tonight.... it's a mix pack of annuals and perennials that attract birds -- but it included more babys breath... so i will have to live with that.

Terese

Terese: Hang in there, the cold snap is almost over for us. It's supposed to get to around 42 here today, Sun and Mon nights still below freezing, though. Then this weather mess will be over, hopefully for you too. We're supposed to get some sun today, too, and I'll be glad just to see it again. This weather is just too bizarre. It was 78 and sunny in Seattle on Friday, but it's snowing in Texas and much of the south is freezing.

My experience in the past, both with WS and direct sowing, is that very tiny seedlings fare a lot better than bigger ones in the cold. Maybe it was just a fluke, we'll see. Quite a few people on the GW forum have lost stuff, too.

Karen

Checked this morning - everything seems to have survived on my front porch, though all were covered, and while the temperatures were below freezing, they were not in the teens.

the temps here are supposed to warm up a tad too. Surprisingly, last night it was 31/32° when i went to bed, and i got up at 6am, and it's 30°.
so it certainly did not get as cold as they were predicting... it's cloudy, that probably helped.

today we too are supposed to be partly sunny and 42, low 27, and by Tuesday, low of 37.

But the 10 day -- so far, they are guessing no higher than 50.... but who knows.

here is a pic of my major casualty -- My babys breath.
looks like a possibility of 2 survivors.