Base of stem can't hold up baby plants

I have baby campanula and dianthus plants in 2-inch pots that are flopping over (not all specimens but a handful). When I look carefully, the stems are thinner just at the surface and underneath the soil, but the stems above ground look good - they are certainly thicker. There is no discoloration, even at the base of the stems, and the plants have healthy leaves. They have been 1-2" under lights since germination.

I have been careful not to overwater and when I do water, always from below.
When I repotted, I buried the stems up to the cotyledons.

Can anyone shed any light what is happening and how I might remedy the situation?

Thanks.

I'm afraid that you've described damp-off. It's a fungal disease that makes the base of the plant stem contract like that. There is no fix or cure if that's what it is.

Can you post a picture? I hate to say for sure until I get a bit more info....it's heartbreaking to have.

First picture: Campanula Medium Canterbury Bells in 2-inch pot

Dianthus

Tall ageratum.

What should I do? Thanks for the input!

Soil looks a bit on the to wet side, maybe add a bit more soil at the base of the plants, and hold off on the water for a few days.

Recently, I did just that. Or, at least I thought so. I let the pots dry out completely and then watered yesterday from below.

I'm afraid it's damp-off...sorry. It's heartbreaking...and I've been in your shoes....only with 300+ tomato plants...*sigh*...

You can baby and coddle the little plants, but in the end, you'll work yourself silly and they'll just get worse...it's not reversible.

You're best off to put the effort into new seedlings. The soil looks wet...it may be that you just watered, but it's saturated at the moment.

Get sterile seed starting mix...do not reuse what's in the containers...and if you reuse these containers wash thoroughly in a bleach solution. 1 cup bleach to 1 gallon of water.

Thanks, Melody. I had used a seed-started medium in a sterilized container and then transfered to 2-inch pots with a transplant mix. It's possible I forgot to sterilize some of the 2-inch pots -- Would that explain why only some of the plants have the problem? How much does a fan help? (I put one on yesterday in hopes of keeping the rest of the litter healthy).

About watering: When they are quite dry, I have been letting the pots sit in water for about 20 minutes at which point they are saturated. I discard the extra water and put the plants back under the lights. Is there a better way?

The non-sterile pots can explain it...especially if all are not infected. If they had showed symptoms before transplant, we'd had to find another culprit...but I think the 2" pots hold the fungus, from the way you've described the situation.

Water draining from the infected pots back into the tray can infect the healthy pots....remove the offending ones at once. And use a new tray...or bleach the old one.

The watering routine sounds fine though. I don't think you did anything wrong there. Add a tablespoon of Hydrogen Peroxide to a gallon of water when you water now...should help keep the healthy plants from getting it.

Keep the fan on like you are doing and since you're on Long Island, there are pretty days that you can give them some hardening off time...just don't put them in the sun for the first few days or it will burn the leaves.

Thanks again, Melody. I will bleach the tray today so that I can keep using it and I will buy some h. peroxide. I imagine the damage to the healthy plants - if any - has already been done, no? How frustrating!

Could transplanting stems deeply also contribute to damping off or is that unlikely?

No, the depth of the stems will not make any difference....I don't think you did anything wrong there either.

The fungus is probably in all the pots by now, but your plants look like they may be getting big enough now to have a bit of resistance...(resistance, not immunity)

I'd take precautions...and plant them outside at the earliest opportunity...even if that means you'd have to cover them on a few nights.

Thanks for the help. I'll follow your instructions and hope for the best!

You're welcome....I've just been in your shoes, and know the feeling so well. Wish I'd had DG many moons ago when I was learning about all of this.......

There would be fewer casualties from my efforts......I'm responsible for many deaths, I'm afraid.

Peckhaus, using sterile potting soil doesn't mean it's been sterilized. you have to do that yourself. I put my seedling soiless mix in a 1 gal ziploc bag 3/4 full and add 1 few drops baby shampoo or dish soap to 1 1/2 cups water, add this to soil. microwave for 13 min check internal temp over 180f is what you need to kill the bad bugs. using this method I have never had damping off or fungus gnats. I got lazy last spring and didn't sterilize some of my soil and ended up with gnats. I got what i deserved because I knew that right way to do it, and didn't. good luck. Jim

Hostajim,

Do you also sterilize the soil you use at the time of transplanting -- or just the seedling soiless mix?

Thanks for the tip.

I'm not sure I agree with the other posters. I think that is the root and the knot is just the crown of the plant. On the Ageratum & Dianthus, it looks to me as if you did not actually plant is as deep as the cotyledons, although I guess I don't know for sure that those leaves on the bottom are leaves or seed leaves. It just needs 1/2 inch of soilless mix added to cover it up. That's what I would do, and have done. My Dichondra 'Silver Falls' looked just like that and I had others, too, I just can't remember them.

Suzy

Peckhaus, if I'm potting up to larger size pot, and it still is in seedling stage and growing under lights in my basement or greenhouse, I do. I'm finding that good plant hygene is a key to success. I wash and dip in bleach, all my containers before I reuse them. I dip my pruners in alcohol between prunings. Jim

Thanks. I've been sterilizing at certain stages, but it sounds like I could be more thorough.

Very informative thread. Thanks all.

Karin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's been three days, are they dead?

Suzy

LOL! Maybe they are just starved for good lighting.

Peckhaus, sometimes you have to cut your losses, do you have more seed you can germinate? toss the other stuff and try again. one thing I've learned is to only germinate what I need to grow that way if it doesn't work I have more seed to try again. so many of the packets you get have way to many seeds. and who needs 100 tomato plants? good luck, Jim

I have the exact same problem with 4 or 5 out of 20 dianthus seedlings. I did start the seeds shallow with only a sprinkle of vermiculite on the seeds. Yesterday I added more ProMix, put them closer to a bank of 4 lights and they are a little better tonight. Not leggy and not flopping over. There was some green mold on the surface but I've had that with 48 tomato and 24 pepper plants to no ill effect. All my pots are new, I used only Pro-mix and everything has been grown in the same conditions (same room) over the last 8 weeks. Broccoli rabe, peppers, tomatoes, catnip, sculpit and Tom Thumb peas have all been healthy. Are carnations more suspectable to damping off? Should I let them dry out completely before watering? Keep the lights on 24 hours?


The cultivar is Fenbow Nutmeg Clove. Had 100% germination which was good as there were only 20 seeds in a rather expensive package. Like to keep them going no matter what as Thompson & Morgan informs me they are sold out. If these carnations go, anyone know where to buy more seeds? They are an old cultivar but T&M seems to have an exclusive on them.


This message was edited Apr 5, 2007 2:45 AM

If you're seeing green stuff on the soil, it means you've got things too wet. It's great that you haven't had problems yet, but you're putting yourself at higher risk of problems if you've got too much moisture around so I would cut back on the watering a bit. You don't want them to dry out either, but I would definitely wait a little longer between waterings than you have been.

David_Paul,

Most of my dianthus are leggy and floppy, too -- but not all. Some even look a tad wilted. I may have started them too early? I added a bit more soil around the base of the stem recently and they're doing better. I've had them very close under lights and have been careful not to overwater. They seem to dry out quickly, though. I suppose I will try to plant them into the ground as soon as possible. Anyone have tips on growing dianthus?

I agree with ecrane, plus I think Dianthus prefers soil on the drier side, anyway.

I still don't think the photos above are damping off, but we haven't heard from peckhaus to see if they're still alive. Damp off happens very fast. You look at the seedlings and notice it, and before you know it, they are flopped over & dead.

I'm not familiar with the variety of Dianthus you're talking about, but a lot of them flop in the garden as youngsers -- it's just the way they grow. My advice is just get the root covered, all the root, and leave them alone under really bright light for a while to dry out. I vote yes for leaving the lights on for 24 hours.

The green moss isn't the kiss of death, as you've already figured out. I have it on a lot of my seedlings which I believe is from buying Miracle Grow that was stored outside all winter. Either that, or a bad batch from the plant. Once your seedlings get to a certain size it's less of a threat, but I still wish I didn't have it. I noticed that when it gets dry, it gets brown, but then as soon as I water again, it becomes green again. I've been sort of scuffing the top of it and that helps a great deal, but of course I have to be so careful not to scuff up the seedlings along with it.

Suzy

Nope, my dianthus isn't dead. Just floppy and a tad wilty...

Peckhaus . . .I've looked around for tips on growing Dianthus and haven't found a lot. Any links anyone?

This is my first year. If Fenbow Nutmeg Clove looks good, I may concentrate on that. Or another heirloom. Want to have a 14 X 18 or so plot of nothing but carnations. Need to know about dividing, cuttings, how to overwinter in pots etc. Please let me know if you find anything. Have ordered "Carnations and Pinks" by Pamela McGeorge and Keith Hammett. Would like to find the definitive book on the subject. Anyone know?

Illoquin...thanks for the information. Plants are looking better this afternoon. They are drying out under the lights. Perhaps all will make it.

This message was edited Apr 5, 2007 2:22 PM

My perennial dianthis in zone 7a planted outdoors as seed last fall are flowering already.
An annual one I bought last fall survived the winter and is blooming profusely now.They are pretty sturdy plants when direct sown outdoors.

David, I've done cutting of Dianthus, and they're easy. just cut them and dip in rooting hormones, and stick them in 50/50 Vermic. and Perliite. bottom heat helps. I think I got about 100% rooting. lol, Jim

Question for hostajim1:

Regarding your microwave soil sterilization process, is there an alternate technique to achieve the same results if a person doesn't have a microwave? [I've had microwave ovens, but after the last one broke I decided not to replace it.]

blue_ cherry, you can bake the medium in the oven until the temp reads 180f. the reason I do the micro is it doesn't take as long 13min approx. for a 1 gal bag 3/4 full. I still get some dirt smells but not as bad as it would be in the oven. maybe you could find one at a garage sale? but then again you have to use what you have. the main thing is to get the bad bugs out before you use it. I have never had damping off or other stuff, after heating it. lol, Jim

Thanks for the helpful feedback, Jim. I will experiment with this alternate technique when I next need some de-bugified planting medium! I have to admit to being a bit reckless, a good deal of the time--partly because I usually don't start out 'assuming' I'll have results--even though most of the time I do have positive results. For me, germinating seeds is an endless learning process, and to see what's happening with the seeds--particularly the big ones--I (as gently as I can) disturb them a lot because I like to gauge the timeframe of the sprouting process. Once I see that a big seed has, or is beginning to show a 'tail', then I usually leave it in peace. In the early days of my botany fixation I did 'do-in' some seeds in this fashion, BUT, the upside is that I learned some stuff---so I don't consider it a loss--and I'm a 'try try again' person!

April

April, here's a hint that I figured out a long time ago, don't germinate all of your available seeds. just how many, plus a little extra, plants that you need. then if you don't get your expected results, you can try again. but the main thing in propagation is having everything sterile or clean. then you won't have seedling falling over. sometimes I hate washing containers, and other utensils but it's worth it in the long run. Jim