Took lids off, and now some seedlings are dead (?).

Yesterday, it was up to 70 and the containers were getting very hot inside so I took the lids off. Most still looked good this morning, but the larkspur container looks as if there were nothing in there. To clarify, the larkspur seeds had JUST started germinating...there weren't even any cotyledons yet. Same thing with another container. The lupines look less than thrilled as well (they are drooping). I still have at least 10 more containers to plant...should I plant them without containers and then use row covers if it gets chilly? Tamara

When did you last water them?

No need for row covers because they have been wintersown and they are already hardy.

How cold did it get last night? I generally put the lids back on during chilly nights... I may be babying them unnecessarily, but I figure they need a little period of adjustment between having the lid on all the time and off full-time, sort of like hardening off indoor seedlings but less so.

Shirley, she was talking about using row covers vs. covers on containers not yet sown... I would continue to use covered containers, just like you were wintersowing... provide afternoon shade if possible (helps keep them from cooking), and open the containers on hot days, but cover them at night, especially if temps go down to the low 30's or colder.

I never did water them because they had condensation on the lid, so I thought the medium must still be moist. I did water the container today, just in case some that hadn't germinated yet still have a chance. Duh, I just reread what I wrote...I *meant* to say that since I am not going to cover them with the lids, should I put on row covers on chilly nights (last night was warm, so I know that wasn't the problem)? I'm with critter...better safe than sorry! Tamara

Tamara,

I vote no cover for the Lupine and Larkspur; both of those are completely cold hardy. They are cold hardy even if the seed had been sown inside, as long as the regular hardening off rules had been followed. I think it is way more likely they expired from heat or too much water or even possibly too much sun, too fast, if that's possible. Kind of a sunburn.

I had some ws'd Lupines die from damp off...but you can see them lying on the soil, at least for a couple days. I have already planted out both my Larkspurs (a week ago) and my Lupines (what was left of them after the ones died from damp off, today). We are due to get frost mid next week and I am not worried at all.

Now, let me ask you one more question -- have you really, really examined the pots/containers they were in? Brought them up to eye level? I noticed it was hard for me to see seedlings at that stage if the sun was high in the sky because they cast no shadows and since there were no leaves, there was no contrasting color. Does that make sense?

Suzy

You'd laugh if you could see me, Suzy! At least 3 times a day I squat down and stick my head in the containers! lol I know the neighbors must think I'm nuts (the containers are on my front porch), but I don't care. I think it was probably too much direct sun. I've moved all the containers now to part sun. Some larkspur in a different container came up today with no problems. Tamara

This message was edited Mar 30, 2007 9:05 AM

LOL! Me too! I worry that my butt resembles one of those plywood signs some people have in their gardens that look like a fat lady bent over weeding -- so attractive. My best feature. NOT! LOL!

Larkspur, Lupine and also Texas Bluebonets and Delphiniums ...not necessarily the big fancy delphs, but the different species ones -- can all be tricky on the light...it's as if they are sort of woodland plants that like a very sunny patch in the woods. I doubt that's true for all parts of the country, but I found it to be true at my place. ...and that's what most of my garden is -- a sunny patch in the woods.

Aren't Sweet Peas in the same family? It is my first time growing them, but I am putting them in full sun (or as full as I can make it.)

Suzy

Out of the 20 or so sweet pea seeds I sowed, only 1 germinated. The rest got moldy. I'm going to try again, because I really, really want to grow them. Tamara

Have you tried the coffee filter method with the Swet Peas?

You soak them in warm water for 24 hours and then put the SP in a wet, not soaking, but wet, coffee filter and put them in a cheap sandwich bag. You can see through the filter to know if they germinate. Oh, and you do this in the house not outside. The germination is about 75%, so don't expect 100%.

Suzy

I haven't tried it with those seeds, but I will do that this weekend. thanks for the tip! Tamara

That's really interesting about the sweet peas. I sowed three little rows in a milk jug and got only ONE. I got mine from Valueseeds - anyone else?

As I've said in previous posts, the seeds I WS in Jan/Feb haven't germinated nearly as well as the ones sown in late Feb/March. Sweet peas were one of those batches done very early on, so I will make up some more containers now to see what the difference in germination is, if any. Also, I think my soil was too wet before, as the seeds got moldy. This time, the soil will be just moist, with no lid. I'll post the results. Tamara

I always thought Sweet peas were easy to grow, even to direct sow. At least I used to be able to grow them. This year there is a SP imp in the house. I remember at one point saying to myself "STOP buying sweet peas right now!" Now I don't know where any of them are. I sowed some I found from 2003. Leap of faith.

xxxxx, Carrie

sometimes the leap of faith is little longer than others ;0)

I also REALLY love sweet peas. The ones I sowed outside have not germinated - but I suspect they have rotted.

I sowed 108 inside - and about 1/2 rotted. So - these are not as easy as we have been led to believe.

The ones that germinated are the old-fashion forms of sweet peas. These have smaller flowers than the Spencers, but are reknowed for fragrance. And, as it turns out, are easiest for rookies.

Currently, the SPs are about 4" tall in their paper pots - and will have to be planted out soon - probably next week. Let's hope they only face light frosts in April :-)

Seandor,

You can direct sow sweet peas "as soon as ground can be worked", ie frost doesn't bother them. No worries, as my DD would say.

xxx, Carrie

When I take the lids of flats indoors, I prop the lid for a day before removing it, getting the seedlings used to the new environment. I would think this might be a good idea for wintersown plants, as well. The breeze could even damage small seedlings who have never experienced nature first hand.

WZ, I think that's a good point... in fact, don't the directions on the WS.org site say something about gradually enlarging the vent holes and them removing the lid? I don't think you're meant to remove that extra protection in one fell swoop.

I wouldn't hesitate to remove the top in one fell swoop if temps suddenly got into the 60s or 70s as mentioned in the first post of this thread. At those temps any containers in direct sun, even for a very short time, can overheat to the point of instant death. With nice gradual increases in daily temps enlarging the holes is the way to go, though. I enlarged the holes several weeks ago in all containers, but the temps in the 70s the last few days my containers are completely open. I will close them again later in the week when lows will be in the low to mid 20s. Those with plants big enough to be in contact with the sides or tops of the jugs will go into the garage.

Karen

Yeah, but even with daytime temps nice and warm I'd put the lids back on at night once or twice... and cracking the lid open or enlarging the vent will (IMO) let enough heat escape without shocking the seedlings by sudden exposure to too much sun, wind, etc...

I wasn't patient enough for that. ;-) I just cut the lids off and threw them out. With 3 little boys to take care and a DH that will NOT watch them so I can do gardening stuff, I have to do things quick-like. ;-) Tamara

i've taken lids off, but didnt toss them yet... they are in my garage in case i need them again (like maybe this week)

My DH keeps asking when he can get the front porch back.... he wants to put the table and chairs back out again... but 've got it covered with containers that i keep moving around due to the weather.

LOL your poor DH, tcs!!

xxx, C.

tcs: Your front porch won't stay covered with containers much longer. Your DH will be admiring your beautiful blooms & plants this Summer and thanking you for not spending a lot of $$ at nurseries!

Promise, Shirley??? (having doubts again...)

xxx, Carrie

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you and looking forward to seeing pictures of your sprouts & blooms!

>>Your DH will be admiring your beautiful blooms & plants this Summer and thanking you for not spending a lot of $$ at nurseries!


Well, i did hear him showing his mom all my seedlings yesterday... he almost sounded "proud" of me for doing it.
He's been home lately (3 weeks) due to medical reasons, not working. (going to DR's, tests and crap)
But the other day he was like "life of a housewife" as i'm putzin' with all my WS stuff.

Maybe i'll put him to work in the flower beds when the weather breaks.... then he will see what i can get accomplished in a days time..... not just watching TV, eating BonBons. LOL.

So -- yea -- I will be saving a lot of $$ this year, especially since i have to "watch" what i spend now.
but my beds will be beautiful this year.

I haven't taken the lids off yet and am I glad. The temperature is 17º this morning. A week ago Monday it was 81º. By the way this year I am going to flip the lids back and not cut them off so I can reuse them next year. I read about doing this and weighing the lid down with a stone. That sounds much easier than cutting a whole bunch more next year. In the past I have gone from lid on to cutting the lid off without any steps in between.

Zen, I also heard of holding 'em open with a clothespin. No way I'm gonna go through all that sawing and poking again. (she says now, with only what look like beansprouts for all her trouble)

xxx, Carrie

Carrie,
I like the clothespin idea. I will look for some when I go to Target this morning. I am glad you posted this before I left.

Question for zenpotter... do you have germination? and have your seedlings survived the subzero temps? what sort of containers are you using? Thanks for your reply as I'm new to WSing.

Di

I set mine out on the porch in 11x20" holeless flats with clear plastic dome lids. I stack the flats, weighing down the top dome lid so it will not blow away. Periodically, as the weather warms, I go out with a mister of water and spray the surface of the starter trays and inside the dome lid, if they are beginning to look a bit dry. When they start to germinate in the warmth of spring, I raise the lids slightly. When all the snow clears out of the way and frost isn't likely, I put them out on the table behind the greenhouse, but use flats with holes in case it rains. Some of them spend the whole summer back there... especially those with irratic germination. I can reuse the flats and dome lids year after year.

I think I may have lost what had sprouted...it was pretty cold here last night.

It's supposed to get cold here the next few nights... I am thinking that I will move my WS containers up against the house, possibly even into the garage for any that are newly sprouting...

I know, I baby them too much! But it won't hurt them to get a little extra protection, as long as I don't bring them inside for a week and reverse the hardening-off they're doing naturally.

What had sprouted, Jasmerr?

xxx, Carrie

Di,
I do have some sprouts. Last year I saw the first ones on April 11th. I use mostly milk jugs, but I do have a few large cottage cheese containers with baggies over them. I prefer the milk jugs and have decided to save the ones from this year plus add more for next year so I use just the milk ones. I bought some clip type clothes pins today to hold them open so I don't have to cut the tops off. If I remember right I didn't take any tops off until late April last year and then only the ones that were getting to the top of the jugs.

I haven't had any lost to the cold yet, knock on wood. I checded a little while ago and they look ok.

Critter, I actually moved mine inside! I put some on my fridge and some under lights in the basement. I also put some inside my neighbor's glass enclosed porch. The only ones I kept outside are the ones that have no sprouts yet. Tamara

Tamara: How do you have room in your fridge??? Don't bring the germinated seedlings indoors because it will weaken their stems. Just keep them outside & move them closer to your house for more protection. If need be, you can cover them at night with a weighted down plastic tarp. Or if you have room in an unheated garage, that's good too. This cold spell will only last a couple of days...not forever!

I start a lot of seeds every spring, and I usually use Tom Clothiers Germination Database. For those 'difficult' germinators, such as: Sow at 20ºC (68ºF), if no germ. in 4 wks, move to -4 to +4ºC (24-39ºF) for 4 wks and Sow at 18-22ºC (64-71ºF) for 2-4 wks, move to -6 to -7ºC (19-21ºF) for 4-6 wks, move to 5-12ºC (41-53ºF) for germination, I start them indoors using the last frost date for my area as a timeline, then set them out on the porch in their domed flats after they've been indoors under lights for 2-4 weeks. From that point on, nature takes care of it. Of course, trying to judge when the temp will be right out on the porch to set them out is a bit iffy. Generally, though, I've had good luck. If I stuck seed trays in the freezer or refrigerator, they'd get tipped over for sure.