Perennials from seed

Do these perennials/tender perennials bloom the first year if started from seed?
columbine
Datura
coral bells
corkscrew vine
Stephanotis floribunda
mallow/french hollyhock
Allium cernuum
lupine
daisy
verbena

Hi z5g, the columbine will not flower till next spring. Here is a link you my be interested in http://www.thegardenhelper.com/Aquilegia.htm

Datura you will get summer blooms this year.

Not sure about the others, I think the lupine takes 2 growing seasons also.

Did you get the RR today?

Chris

No, I didn't! waaaaa!!!! Now I won't get it until Tuesday. :-( Thanks for the link...I'll check it out. Tamara

I responded on your other thread too but I'll post here as well in case anyone else was interested...I'm pretty sure Stephanotis takes a couple years to bloom.

I did get blooms the first year on Vigna caracalla seeds that I started inside in Feb., and I had late blooms on a couple of datura that I started inside also. I got blooms last summer from some Malva sylvestris (mallow) that I had wintersowed last year. Verbena might bloom the first year depending on the variety. According to my experience with them, the columbine, lupine, and daisy will probably not bloom until their second year.

zone5girl, I started Aquilegia x hybrida Origami Red & White last year on Feb 23 & it started blooming Aug 22.

broots....interesting about the Aquilegia x hybrida Origami Red & White have to add to my wish list for 2008 Thanks

You know, I think I did read the other day in a seed catalog that the "Origami" series will bloom their first year from seed... I don't know if they require an indoor start to do so, however... broots, did you start yours inside?

I wintersowed mine, so hopefully I will get some late summer blooms too. Thanks for the info! Tamara

critterologist, yes I did start mine indoors, prechilled the seed in the fridge for 5 days & then surface sowed.

http://www.swallowtailgardenseeds.com/perennials/columbine.html

ladygardener1, the Origami have nice large blooms.

zone5girl, I'm sure you will have blooms too.

Yes, most aquilegia bloom in the second year, but, as critter said, M. sylvestris will bloom the first year, if started early indoors. It does not winter over well for me, but I treat it as an annual. As for lupine, it seems I had blooms from the Gallery series late in the first year, when started indoors. The same was also true for Verbena bonariensis. This one has even wintered over in Seward.

In my zone 6 (last frost date in April), the Verbena bonariensis and Malva sylvestris gave me blooms the first year (toward the end of summer) from seed that I had wintersowed... I also wintersowed the lupine, which may be why I didn't see blooms from it the first year (and it didn't make it through its first winter, not sure why, but I'll try it again this year).

Lupine are iffy for me, too. They tend to rot if it gets too wet in late summer. However, if they get through the first winter, they seem to do fine. Gallery is the only lupine cultivar that has bloomed the first year for me, no matter how early I start them. I really love the malva mauritiana. I have no luck with hollyhocks because they are biennial and don't usually surive the first winter. The malvas bloom the first summer, much like lavatera or malope.

My problem with hollyhocks is that the rabbits consider them an especially choice salad tidbit! Maybe I need to put a few in pots and move them into the garden when they're bigger and less palatable.

I'm glad to know that "wet" can be the problem with lupines... I think I'll try starting a few more and see how they do planted along the back of the garden with my irises (tends to be a little drier back there, as it's at the top of a small rise, and I don't have soaker hose down for them).

My problem may be that most of the lupines I deal with are first year plants in pots. We can get some heavy rains here, so the crowns can be in standing water at times. I'm just guessing on this. I do know that they sometimes rot at the soil line.

I wintersowed a few lupine seeds this afternoon, so we'll see how they do! Thanks for your input. :-)

I touch up the surface of my lupine seeds with an emery board, and I have good luck with germination. Lupine seeds seem to be viable for several years, probably due to their hard shell.

Hey everybody! Is this where the cool kids hang out?

Lupine and another plant called Red Hot Poker (sorry for the non-Latin) both need their leaves pulled up to cover the crown in late fall here. It's not the cold that gets 'em, but our very rainy falls and winters and early springs. I have also done with with foxglove and also hollyhocks in previous years when I've had big perennial gardens. The thing is, *sometimes* the plants will make it okay without doing this, but I always have better luck with them when I tie them up.

I got the idea from the WFF catalog in the 1970s-early 80s who indiated it was the only way they could grow Red Hot Poker and Lupines in Connecticut.. ..and maybe Delphiniums? Gawd! I can't remember! It will look like a pony tail of leaves going straight up, but it always leans off to one side after a week or less, that's ok. You can use a bit of that thick hairy twine to tie them up, but it is sort of hard for one person to do -- two is better if you can get a hand. For some reason, I can't think of the words I want today -- that thick hairy twine has a name, but it is eluding me. I think it's a premonition of old age. (Hardee har har on the premonition part of that last statement!)

You untie them when the new growth starts, but it's not a critial timing issue -- just when you get around to it in the spring. I used to use a bow so I could just pull one end and that was the end of it.

Suzy

Suzy, that's a great tip! Thanks.

And yes, this IS where the cool kids hang out -- now that you're here! ;-)

Susy thank you for the tip on lupines.I grew them in Michigan but almost gave up here, and they are my 2nd favorite perenial. Cinda

Oh, I love those Lupines, too, G-Gus, but they sure take up a lot of real estate when they are full-grown!
My perennial bed where I used to grow them is now the master bedroom from a house addition. I have simply run out of much of my full-sun exposure and have had to rethink the "footprint" of the flowers and veggies requiring full sun.

Critter good to see you! I haven't spent too much time in the perennials forum because I wanted to only have annuals this year. I got rid of all my big ole perennials last year in an attempt to have a clean slate for an ever-blooming, so colorful it hurts your eyes, annual garden. Then I got caught up in exchanges & swaps and have sown 225 milk jugs -- you guessed it -- of perennials! 60% of them are for shade, and that's ok. It's the ones requiring full sun that are going to drive me crazy in the spring. Not sure how it's going to shake out, but it was just so much darn fun!

Suzy

225!!!!! Oh gosh... if you haven't posted yet on the "what I've sowed so far" thread in the WS forum, you have to go over and brag on that number! Way to go!!

I thought of you this afternoon as I was misting the surface of my hellebore pots... one problem with that sand on top is that it's hard to tell when the potting mix has dried out too much... I'm trying to go by weight and avoid getting it too wet... How are you handling that? Maybe I should just give the pots a good bottom-watering drink every couple of weeks and let the moisture work its way up via capillary action.

Oh, Critter, I am an idiot for sowing that many! I don't even want people to know! LOL!

Take a look at my DG Journal if you want to see what I've been up to.

I am so confused. Why on earth were you misting your hellebore seeds? Aren't they tucked away? Mine are in pots..I forget the size because I haven't seen them since I put them in the refrigerator, but maybe 4" pots? They are each enclosed in a sealed ziploc bag sitting on the shelf inside the door in a dedicated plant refrigerator and I didn't plan on even looking at them until I pull the dahlias out.

I can't remember, but I think each bag offered 1- 1 1/2 inches of headroom, so I guess if any of them were over achievers they'd just germinate inside the pots with the bag over them.

I thought you said yours were in the garage? I don't know -- misting out in the cold garage sounds like a lot of work to me. If I didn't have a refrigerator, I would put the pots with the ziploc in a basket or something and put them outside or in the garage.

Suzy

Cover the pots.... oh, that does sound like a good idea! Sheesh. *slaps forehead* I'd have covered them if I put them in the fridge or if I'd wintersowed them! I'll have to stick my finger down into one pot to be sure there's some moisture reaching the seeds (hope I don't jab a seed and push it down to never never land), and if it seems about the right amount of moisture, I'll bag the pots. I sure should've bagged them when I first potted them up -- the moisture level was just right then, I'm sure!

LOL!

Or you could put them in a tray of water for a 1/2 hour and then remove them from the tray, put a ziploc bag over the top and secure it to the sides with a rubber band so it's open on the bottom. Then they could still drain, get air, etc.

Suzy

Good thought about foxglove. I have lousy luck wintering them over here. That might be the answer. I've trimmed them in the fall before, and i usually cover them with mulch and plastic, but pony tails might be a great idea... how about adding some poodle skirts and bobby sox?

I decided the moisture level was good, so I slapped some press 'n seal on top, leaving a tiny gap on one side... when they start to sprout, they'll get light & bottom watering as you suggested... I even put wicks in the pots, so I'm ready!