vermicomposting

Does anyone harvest there compost in the winter or do you think it would be too stressful for the worms as they are not as astive and do not eat as much in the winter??

fieldsems, getting compost of the bin in the winter certainly won't hurt the worms. If it's a "hot" pile, they get closer to the source of the warmth, otherwise they just go deeper in the ground under the frozen area. I don't know if they get less active in the winter, I know my pile keeps right on working, as long as I can keep materials added to it.
You live in a area that has pretty mild winters, so I would think you would have a longer growing season to take advantage of.

fieldsems...I harvest spent media (worm casings) from the top of my indoor worm compost bins regularly, and store the spent media in a 30 gallon plastic trash barrel. It's full by spring, ready to be processed into germination and potting mixes. I use a hand trowel to scrape off the top 1/2-inch of material before feeding my worms. I use a blender with 1-2 cups of aquarium syphoned water (DG'er recommendation) to blend the peelings into an emulsion which I burry in a trench with some new media (peat moss soaked overnight in warm water and dried out using a four-inch aquarium net to remove most of the water). I have four 20 to 30 gallon plastic bins and each spring I dump the two oldest bins into my outdoor compost bins, and start two new ones.

About once a month I completely mix the top two-thirds of each bin to avoid compaction, and about once a quarter I completely mix the whole bin. My vermiculture methods may be different from most, but I don't notice any problems with the worms being 'disturbed' from mixing. These red wigglers are healthy, fat, long (up to 5" in lenght), and generally pregnant. In the spring when my insulated attached garage temperatures heat up above 60 degrees F, the bins are loaded with midget worms.

One thing I do recommend is that before using spent worm media in germination mixes, I heat it in a small oven at @ 220 degrees F for half an hour or more. I then grade the cooled media through a 1/4-inch screen. The heat process as I understand it helps reduce problems from plant viruses, as well as cutting down on rogue tomato seeds.

morgan

Mraider3,

Thank you for considering me knowledgeable about the worms in my little compost bin, but I must admit that everything I know came from other DGers! That's the beauty of belonging to this great neighborhood. Neighbor helping neighbor. I'm sure there are others very much more and most deserving of the title of "Uber!"

I am truly honored, and humbled.

Linda

P.S. Thanks for the banana peel idea. They're in for a new treat - Banana Splits!

Thanks so much for your advise this is our first winter

Good one Linda...I appreciate the laugh. I totally agree on the subject of DG knowledge...I just told someone else the same thing.

I searched the web for about thirty minutes a day looking for information on setting up my new garden. In just a couple of months of crusing various DG threads for new ideas and techniquies I have surpassed nearly three years of web browsing. The down side to this place is it's addictive...I can't get enough. I have coppied your thread postings a number of times...so THANK YOU LINDA!

morgan

P.S. I'm on my way to some of that great microwave corn...another new addiction...thank you very much!

You tried the microwave corn???!!!! HURRAY!!!!!

ok y'all this has been on my mind alot and I think about it and ponder how what and where to do this all ...yes I am talking worms.
I know santa ( my folks) are sending me the money to order a small green house for my present so I could probably set it up in there so Dh doesn't go nuts on me in the house or garage.
I know we have plenty of coffee grounds as Dh drinks it every day, I have some newspapers from work and can get more if I just remember to go over to the spa and get them and I have access to getting stuff like potato peels carrot peels etc from the restaurant when we prepare stuff.
I have a rubbermaid tub that is no longer in use that I could use to start with I think......now my question is can I go and just buy fishing worms to get started as my cash flow is limited right now but I do want to do things that will help in having stuff for spring to work in the sand and clay so I can have a garden and improve the flower beds along with the compost piles we have out back.

I would love to order from fieldsems but I can't until I get some stuff caught up ...I never dreamed getting poison ivy when we moved here would send me to the doctor twice and cause such a problem.

Honey, you don't have to buy any worms. You put that compost together and they'll come visit you. Not a problem and lucky gurl, nice present, you must have been, very, very good. grin

Mibus,

It depends on what kind of worms you want. If you want worms to do composting of table scraps etc. in a worm bin, you need Epigeic worms (eisenia fetida). These live in the top 10 inches or so of the duff layer and eat the microbes that decay the garbage. They tolerate being close together and will breed in a worm bin. They operate at a temperature more or less consistent with human comfort level. These are also called manure worms. This site http://www.happydranch.com/10.html is one of the best for overall education regarding worm composting and what you may find in your worm bin other than worms. Great photos! It also has worms and supplies but like you, I like to buy from DG'rs when possible. Read anything you can find written by Kelly Slocum. She is a scientist who specializes in worm composting to deal with waste on a commercial scale. there is a ton of misinformation on the internet so it's good to find the scientist experts to see what is known for sure and then adapt it to what works for you.
Anecic worms are the outside kind that build permanent vertical burrows that they leave and return to with decaying plant matter. They do not do well crowded together in a worm bin. It will be too crowded and likely too hot.

If you build a compost pile outside and keep it moist, worms will come and work on it for you. I wouldn't advise putting those worms in a worm bin. While you MIGHT end up with the right kind of worms (especially if you start with some manure), more likely you will not and they will die of stress and you will have no composting worms.

Perhaps you could also ask Santa for a batch of worms (how romantic!) and the book "Worms Eat My Garbage" by Mary Appelhoff- the wizardess of worms. http://www.wormwoman.com/acatalog/Wormwoman_catalog_Worms_Eat_My_Garbage_3.html
Sadly, she died a year or two ago but she introduced the masses to worm composting. Here is a list of books on the subject- you can probably find some in your local library. At least the Appelhoff book.
http://tinyurl.com/2q9lyq

Well, if I don't feel like and idiot! Sorry, it was late last night when I "chimed in". Wrong composting thread........LOL
I find I'm spending more and more time on here and later and sometimes that's not always a good thing. The brain seems to do lights out some times. LOL

LOL doccat5 ..if you noticed I posted at 11pm so your not the only one up late instead of in bed, but then I am on dial up and I find it better later in the evening to stay on and not get kicked off...doesn't help me get up at 5am to go drive a bus but I too spend more time here at DG surfing through things.

margaran..THANKS for all the info!!!!!!
we do have two outside piles but they are mostly of leaves, grass, some cardboard and yard trimmings from trimming back some bushes...although hubby did take the bokashi pile and put it in the middle of one and covered it ...bokashi info can be found at emamercia.com
It is taking kitchen waste ...more then just peelings and such and "pickling" it as they call it...Told ya I wnat to have stsuff to use this coming spring to get started on gardens and improving the ground. LOL

margaran,
Thanks for the detailed info. I didn't know there were two different kinds of worms.

Great links too. Mibus, I can't get the site you mentioned to work. Bokashi is something I've never heard of before.

Dean try this one
http://www.emamerica.com/data/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=185&Itemid=226
it is listed under
Household....
Compost....
Food Waste Recycling (Bokashi)

Thanks, Mibus!

Your welcome!! :))

Here is another source for EM culture. If you buy a bag of Bokashi bran (compost starter) and you like it, you can make you own in large batches. The site has directions on how to make your own Bokashi bran (cheaper if you make it yourself).
http://www.scdworld.net/category_s/1.htm

I buried a batch of Bokashi fermented kitched scraps in my raised bed and caused an earthworm stampede. I had just used the garden fork to turn the soil, so some worms were near the surface. Never new they could move so quickly as they stretched and scooted across the top of the soil and then dove down into the area when I had just buried the contents of my Bokashi bucket.

I brew up batches of Activated EM now and use that both in the watering can, the worm bin and as a foliar spray.

What a great thread we've got going! Too long to load for those on dial-up so let's continue here http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/795297/

wow someone else that is using the Bokashi composting cool..I was afraid people thought I was nuts when I tried explaining it LOL

& what's wrong with being nuts? haha

Hey, hey, some of us are seriously paranoid on here. You know who you are! grin

OH nothing wrong with being nuts
I alway told my bus kids when thy would ask where we were going if I had to take a detour that I was going nuts and I was taking them with me...LOL

Add me to your Worm Farm Owner list. LOL

Before I purchased my worms, I read a book from a library, "Worms eat my garbage". It's a great book for beginners like myself that didn't know much about Vermicomposting. I had no clue how to feed my worms, but I do now after I read that book and had some learning and trial and error along the way.

My worms are happy and they lived in my basement during the winter time. I just might leave them there all year around since they're not in my way. I just bring the food to them, put some shredded newspaper clips, and leave them for awhile. When I needed some soil, I know just where to go. I LOVE my WORMS! I wished I knew this when I was younger. LOL.

Never toooo old to learn new things. Give it a try. It's very easy and just imagine all that food waste goes to the worm for our garden and not to a landfill.

Linda

Ohhh creadman I may have to look ya up this summer when we come back up to Belvidere as get some tips from ya.
mine are having ups and downs on being happy but I know last time I looked which was Sunday I had some nice fat ones in there but it seems I also find some stringy ones that are dead.
they are getting mostly coffee with some torn up banana peels, orange rinds, and other peelings when I have them.

Gonna have to find the library around here and see if they have that book to read too.

Phyllis

Mibus2...coffee grounds as I have been told by commercial worm farmers have no food value. I have seen numberous DG thread comments of people using their coffee grounds even for a media. Just think about it, how much weight can You gain by drinking coffee? I'm pretty sure I will get busted for this comment, but I just had to chime in.

umm I don't drink coffee so I don't gain any weight from it.....smells good but tastes nasty no matter what ya do to it LOL

hey busted or not I can use all the help I can get if I want to get this place to "shine" in growing gardens of any kind here with all the sand and clay it has been left to be over run with weeds so it is gonna take work to get things going

Mibus2...Join you on the coffee taste...I drink it strictly for the effect. I just looked up an old thread on the NPK atributes of coffee grounds, and read another Hyperlinked article on Star Bucks coffee grounds recently posted in this forum. My opinion is coffee grounds are best served as addition to your compost pile which is where my excess goes. I do however use it as an addition to my hot pepper potting-up mix. (Spent worm media: soaked peat moss with excess water removed: grated and aged horse manure compost: coffee grounds. Ratio of 2:3:1:1 respectively.) So far the potted hot pepper seedlings are doing well with no ill affects from the coffee grounds as a fertilizer source.

I hadn't heard that coffee grounds were supposed to provide nutrition for the worms as much as for the plants. Worms have differing nutritional requirements from humans, so what makes a worm fat wouldn't necessarily translate to what makes a human fat, even if we both like molasses. LOL!
I would consider coffee grounds in the worm bin as a substitution for something like shredded newspaper or coir bedding It provides a moist media for the worms to wiggle around in and covers the plant/kitchen scraps that are buring in it to reduce odors or flies.

Worms eat the mold that grows on the coffee grounds. The worms don't actually eat any of the stuff we throw in there, they eat the mold that grows on it.

Maggie

...which is why we want to give them the best quality mould we can grow! LOL!

Is anyone aware of any controlled studies on the difference in the nutritive value to the garden of vermicompost produced by worms fed a specialty diet compared to worms fed "potluck"? As in whatever is in my fridge? I'd be willing to rachet it up a notch if there was an end benefit but I started this as a way to not waste so I just give them whatever. You guys are much more devoted worm wranglers.

Maggie

I haven't check for any worm nutrition studies, but I do know that I get bigger, more robust worms if I ferment (Bokashi method) the kitchen scraps first.

Maggie...you're opening up a can of worms here...I too have been curious about the possibliity of introducing something into the vermiculture bins from those store bought banana, or orange, or grapefruit peelings. What did they spray them with??? Did that guy picking them wash his hands after going to the bathroom...or what about that guy who was messing with the fruit before you bought it??? For a while there I was heating my spent worm median in an oven before using it as a germination mix. Then I used hydrogen peroxide. Finally I just said what the heck and planted the seed. Worms have been doing their thing for so long I can't imagine there is a whole lot we can do to improve the process.

Vermiculture sort of reminds me of modern day conventional wastewater treatment...which is little more than natures way of treating waste, except it's in a more confined space. Isn't that what we are really doing here. Making the best form of combined space for one of natures best means of treating waste?

You bet MRaider, I love a good discussion ;-) I saw a research study somewhere that demonstrated that the worms can detoxify even bacteria like salmonella that are harmful to people. In India, they are using worms to detoxify ground soaked with chemical byproducts of manufacturing http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/10/22/eco.about.worms/index.html#cnnSTCText
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2396435
http://www.yelmworms.com/Jim%20Jensen's%20report.htm

GW
Intuitively; bigger, fatter worms would make bigger, fatter poop. But what if they just use up all the good stuff and the waste product is equivalent to that of skinny worms? One of these days, when my garden is more together, Id like to learn how to do that Bokashi. From previous chat , it seems that the Bokashi is good for the garden without being processed by the worms? Is that correct? I plead ignorance here. My goal is to live a little lighter and to feed my garden. Does processing Bokashi through the worm gut just use up more nutritive value from the end product and bulk up the worm? Or does the worm processing the Bokashi nutrients make the poop even more highly concentrated than skinny worm poop? I think how I feed the worms depends on my goal. RedHen ,on another board, raises them to sell. In that case, or for fishing, or just raising them as a hobby like fish; I can certainly understand wanting bigger worms. For myself, I just want poop :-).

Maggie

My experience, don't use orange peels. It's too acidic for them and they will try and crawl out of your bin. If you are using coffee grounds, make sure its not toooooooo wet. Too much water in the coffee ground can drown your worms. I would spread them out a bit and not put it in there all at once. They LOVE veggies, such as salads, cabbages, cucumbers, celery, banana peels, apples, grapes, carrots, etc. If you put them in the microwave and softened it up, it will help break down faster for the worms to eat their meal. Make sure it's cool off or cold before giving it to them. You sure don't want to cook your worms. LOL Also, use shredded newspaper it will help absorb some of the excessive fluid in the bin, and toilet paper and paper towel rolls. It will also mold on it for the worms to feast.

Linda

Maggie, the Bokashi doesn't need to go into a worm bin. It is customarily buried in the ground, where the "wild worms" finish it off in place. Bokashi is the fermented food waste. It isn't really broken down into soil yet. The worms do that. I just find it convenient to empty my Bokashi bucket into a tray in my Wriggly Wranch. When I just added straight kitchen scraps mixed with the worm bedding, it took longer for the worms to break everything down. When I started fermenting the food scraps into Bokashi first, the worms finished it off faster, and I discovered a much larger population of worms in the bin. Since I haven't added any additional worms to the bin, I'm interpreting the larger size of the current worms to the better nutrition from the Bokashi step. Bigger worms probably eat more, so they chow through the scraps better.

Hmm,

Don't mean to be a pill but I'm in the medical field so I get all weird about measurable stuff. It seems to me from what you say that more worms are more impressive than fatter worms. I'm so looking forward to looking at this issue. I'm thinking more poop baby;-)!!!.

So VERY glad you entered into the debate,

Warm regards,

Maggie

Maggie, I'm also in the medical field. I come from the school of "treat the patient, not the lab test". I look at the measurable tests as routine info that may help me determine the solution needed, but I focus on the person, or in this case, the worm, in front of me.

I stopped taking notes on how many weeks were required for the worms to chow through a full tray of kitchen scraps with and without the Bokashi technique after the first few trials. The worms in the tray are larger and more plentiful when I fill it with Bokashi versus filling it with straight kitchen scraps. I did not feel a need to weigh and measure for my small worm bin. If I had a larger worm operation and/or sold casings or "worm juice", then I would of course keep tighter records. If you decide to conduct a more formal trial, please do keep us informed! :-)

Larger worms can eat more than smaller worms. A higher worm density means the scraps are processed more quickly. With the Bokashi fermentation process, the EM microbes pre-digest the kitchen scraps so that the material is assimilated more completely. There are very few pieces left when I sift the worm casings. Without the Bokashi "pre-cycle", there are usually pieces left to toss back into the tray.

GW- do you have a rough idea if you are getting more poop? Like you, the person is more important than the lab work but it certainly helps sort things out sometimes. My end goal is more poop. If fatter worms will do that, I'm all for it. Less residue is nice for sure but no big deal for me. How much time do you spend on the Bokashi? How much space does it take up? One thing I like about the worms is I just dump it and presto, they process it. Can I just skip the worms and switch to Bokashi?

Thanks,

Maggie

Maggie, you may want to peruse the Bokashi & EM threads to read others experiences with the method.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/796403/

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/821756/

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/802294/

One of the reasons I like the worm castings is that I want to build a strong beneficial community in the rhizosphere of my garden. I think having the probiotic culture of the EM/Bokashi makes for better quality worm castings. The Bokashi process is more convenient for me, since I can use a larger bucket in the kitchen and not need to empty every day. The EM culture keeps the kitchen scraps from getting stinky.
I can fill a tray in the Wriggly Wranch now and not worry about overwhelming my population. They eagerly crawl up to the newly filled tray and chow down.