One Man's Yard

I finally pulled myself together enough to go out and document the damages. Let's get the real ugly ones out of the way first. This is a Caryota gigas and a Wodyetia bifurcata. I hold out no hope...

Moving on... Let's look at a Caryota urens just 3 ft from my house (call me a fool but the thing survived!)



This message was edited Feb 7, 2007 8:57 AM

This smaller one down by the sidewalk ain't so perty...

Let's see how the kentias did. This is my 3-trunked multi. Each trunk has 2 long healthy looking spears.

Here are 2 singled trunked ones. My kentias looked okay a week after the freeze, and then took a bit of a dive. They'll recover. (The freeze also killed my nasturtium goundcover)

ouch!! Man Terry, I feel sorry for you. Hopefully it will keep getting warmer to prevent any more damage!!

Here's a Dypsis lutescens, also planted close to my house. Maybe the freeze thinned it out for me. All I have to do is prune the brown ones off.

You guys had enough? Almost done. Time to check out my king palms. This one in front of my house is pretty sad. The high winds we had the week before the freeze thrashed it, and then Mr. Freeze came along and blasted it. I'm pretty sure it will come back.

This message was edited Feb 7, 2007 5:43 PM

I'm pretty sure this king is an "illawara" type. It is equally exposed to wind and cold, but fared a bit better.

That's enough for this thread. I took photos of almost 30 palms, mostly to document their (hopeful) recovery. I have a number of palms that sailed through undamaged.

This message was edited Feb 7, 2007 9:33 AM

Wow terry you have had alot of damage there! I didnt even plant them and its hurts me to look at them. For me this weather event was sobering as I want my palms to look beautiful all the time. Palms just seem to take longer to recover from leaf damage. I guess we both -along with many others- have had "survival of the fittest" tests in our yards this winter. Hopefully the information about damages can help others better understand the risks of growing different species of palms in our respective climates.

This message was edited Feb 7, 2007 11:34 AM

You did sustain a lot of damage didn't ya? No wonder the wifey was asking you "how come our yard looks so bad?" Here's hoping that the ones that will recover will recover quickly.

One thing my gf and I were wondering is, if a palm survives a cold winter like this and become healthy again, will it withstand cold better next time? In other words, if the cold weather doesn't kill it, will the cold make it more cold hardy?

Don't worry about your nasturtiums. Mine always die off every winter, just to return in the spring. We usually just cut them back when they turn yellow. I'm surprised you still had nasturtiums growing this time of year, to tell you the truth. Are you sure we're talking about the same plant here? I'm attaching a pic of what comes up in my yard every spring without planting. They're beautiful when in full bloom but make a huge yellow, tangled mess when they expire.

Thanks Deez, DesertPalm and Fronds for the condolescenses. You can see why I was loathe to photograph them. Except for the first gigas and foxtail I expect a comeback. I have heard that surviving a severe freeze makes kings hardier for a freeze NEXT year (but not THIS year). No desire to test that theory. Next year I'm wrapping entire palms in frostcloth and running the pool heater for the duration.

Yep, those are my nasturtiums. They actually were going downhill with all the Santa Anas and 2 subfreezing nights in November-December.

Condolescenses? Is that when a condolence kind of glows? LOL
I was talking about next year... the question is if this year's cold weather makes them hardier for the next winter's frost. I realize that a tree that is hurting now and trying to recover would undoubtedly be less able to deal with sub-freezing temps, should a new frost hit this February.

I think my typo comes from writing Dypsis LUTESCENS. I guess I have a couple more photos to share. Brace yourself...

Roystonea regia (my poor baby!)

"Please Terry, we can't take anymore!"

Not just yet... Archontophoenix alexandra (a goner for sure)

I think the royal has a chance at making it. It's spear is only brown at the tip, and the rest is a healthy green. It gives me at least 4 leaves a year. At least it's petiols/rachis are green, which is more than can be said for the alexander.

Terry...You know how hard hit I was on my foxtails, and to my surprise alot of them even looking dead like are starting to move a spear here and there. Don't dig up the foxtail yet it may just pull through. My large one looks to be in the same shape as yours but I am giving all mine until May to show growth before trashing them....

Nothing's coming out of the ground until end of summer.

2 weeks ago I marked each spear where it emerges. Every spear shows 0.5-1.0 inches of growth in that time, except the A. alexander and C. gigas. I know you love 'em, but the only way I'm trying a foxtail again is in a large pot so I can drag it in the house when needed. My living room ceiling is 17ft, so that could go on for years.

A question : are most of your palms totally dormant during winter in So Cal ? And a second one, which is the growing period of the year over there? Obviously spring and summer, but when does it start and when does it end? Oh, and a last one! Are there any palms that keep growing even in winter time? Thanks :)

This message was edited Feb 8, 2007 9:38 AM

Good question. Last winter my royal pushed out a complete new spear from November to February. My kentias slow down but keep the leaves coming. I think palms here just slow down, which I guess is "dormant" compared to summer. Summer with heat and a little more humidity is when they grow fastest. I've read ceroxylons keep growing through the winter, and C. ventricosum is hardy to 20-22F. It's one I have to get.

Most palms grow so slow here in So Cal, it's not always easy to tell when a palm is 'dormant'... they just grow even slower. I have to put a black Sharpie mark on the spike sometimes just to confirm a palm is even growing. Still, most Acrhontophoenix will grow through the winter and they got hit super hard, while my Dypsis ambositraes don't grow an inch in the winter, and they got killed, too. Not sure activity makes a lot of difference in terms of cold hardiness. Bismarckias don't do anything in the winter, and they are fine, while Parajubaeas and Ceroxylons keep on like there is no such time of year and they are fine, too.

I see... Well, you are blessed with quite high daytime temperatures during winter, which we lack in my country. As a result, palms' growth is literally put on a halt here between November and early April, since our highs are kept in the 50-60F area for most of this time of the year. This of course applies to the very limited variety of species that are available (and commonly grown) here, which are washingtonias, canary palms, date palms, european fan palms, trachys and, recently, queen palms. All these simply stop to grow for about 4-5 months every year. So, how the above mentioned palms perform in your place, in terms of winter-growth?

I have never noticed any of those going 'dormant' in our winters... but as I said, they are slow plants here. You really have to pay attention to notice any growth. ONe year I did track growth around the year using the marking pen on the spike technique and didn't notice any slow down in either Wahsingtonias or TRachycarpus... some queens slowed a tad, while others sped up (that's our wet season). Haven't tracked a Date palm yet, but Canary island dates don't seem to notice what time of year it is, or even care about the rainfal much.

It seems than 70F is a sort of borderline for general palm growth...When we past this temperature and move upwards, which happens around the end of March, everything wakes up and start to grow again. But as far as I understand, this is a common winter daytime high for you, that's why most palms keep growing in So Cal, even if a bit slower. Unfortunatelly, our winter highs of 55 - 60F are simply not warm enough for constant growth. So, bad news for me : if a palm is slow over there, it should be double slow around here...but I still believe that my area is fairly good for palm cultivation, since it enjoys long, hot summers and almost frostless winters. I guess I just have to be VERY patient...:)

P.S. : I think I know now the reason why most of our washingtonias and canaries are remarkably shorter than the huge California palms I've seen in many photos. In our climate, they just miss 5 months' growth every year...

This message was edited Feb 8, 2007 7:56 PM

My attempt to describe our climate:

Feb-April : Mix of marine and continental influence. Temps range from 40-70F
May-July : Marine Influence (medium humidity). Temps range from 50-75F
Aug-Oct : Mix of marine and continental influence. Temps range from 60-85F
Nov-Jan : Continental influence (extremely low humidity). Temps range from 30-80F

I put that down for you to see how Athens compares. I do think everything grows faster from April to November, while our lows are higher than 50F.

Our climate should be something like this :

Jan-mid March : 30/35 - 60F (medium to high humidity)
mid March - early May : 45 - 75F (medium humidity)
mid May - mid Sep : 65 -100F (low humidity)
mid Sep - Oct : 55-85F (low humidity)
Nov : 45 - 70F (medium humidity)
Dec : 35 - 55/60F (medium to high humidity)

Definitely lower highs between Nov. - March., then quite similar during summer and most of fall. Interesting comparison. Thanks osideterry!

P.S. : My royal and king palm seedlings appear quite happy potted outdoors (and proteced by the building) till now. I wonder why these palms are still uknown to the local market. It seems they could be very succesfull in our climate. But then again, locals still consider kentias to be exclusively indoor plants, even if they can obviously perform excellently in most of city's parks and gardens. Oh well.

So getting back to my question a few posts ago, does this year's cold weather make the trees and plants that survive it hardier for the next year's frost?

You know the old saying,
"That which does not kill you makes you stronger..."
does that hold true in the plant world for next winter?

no way.. if anything, only makes them weaker... too bad.

I think palm bob is right, that a devastating cold shock to a plant doesnt make it stronger. Perhaps over a number of generations some species might adapt to become more cold hardy, but that might take longer than our lifetimes. My lesson from this winter was that species that are "borderline" tolerant of local weather represent risks that are worth it for the diversity, but I will not grow a large number of borderline species anymore as I expect this hard freeze will occur again. Any new borderline palm I plant will have excellent wind cover and be close to the house. I have the ideal spot picked out and when the hard freeze is forecast, I will erect a plastic sheet fence that bounds these species with a wall of the house for extra wind block and retained heat. And yes, my pool heater will work overtime next time to limit damage in general.

I think in my case, I have a Wody that made it through okay, with just the loss of the oldest, most weathered frond and some small brown spots on the healthy leaves. Overal it came thru with flying colors.

I was just wondering in this case, where it did get mighty cold but not enough to cause serious damage, if was "conditioned" somehow to withstand cold weather next year. My gf thinks it will, based on her life on a farm in Oregon when she was a child. I guess we'll see what happens next winter. It's still February so we may not be out of the woods yet with these unusual chills.

Hi Basilio,

you´re problem sounds similiar to mine. People only grow what they see at their neighbours place. Nurseries only sell what people ask for which is the same. Vicious circle. I try to collect different palms from whereever I can in this country and finally found some rare ones. It´s a mission but it´s worth because it´s fun. Will certainly loose some of them in the next years but the ones which suvive will give my garden a unique look. My long term perspective is that our climate will get warmer which is good for most them. Hopefully we won´t get a drought soon since most of them like water quite a lot ;-)

sorry Terry. I am hoping most of my palms and cycads survided multiple freezes here in Texas. My Fishtail is a gonner for sure. I love them but this is the third that has died. I shall not plant another one in its place. My cycads all seem solid with just a couple of exceptions BUT all plants were covered 100% in a sheet of ice (we had freezing rain) so I will not know the extent of the damage for some time. Good luck with your garden.

George in San Antonio

i'm just curious if anyone used the copper fungicide method of drenching their freeze-damaged palms? anytime there is a freeze in florida, the old-timers taught me to apply it asap after the freeze and before too if there is time.

I'm on my third week of treating my palms with Daconil. I've heard palms tend to die from secondary disease and fungus as much as the sheer cold. The brittle leaf bases crack and opportunistic microorganisms get in their.

do you have the book, "Betrock's Guide to Landscape Palms"? there is an excellent page devoted to cold protection and treating cold-damaged palms. if you don't, i would be more than happy to copy it here for you. it does mention being careful with over-treatment due to copper phytotoxicity. i don't post in the palms forum very often but have been lurking here quite a bit since the horrible weather hit california. i'm so sorry for all of your losses.

Terry-what fungus are you hoping to avoid by treating with the Daconil? Just curious about what fungus palms get that would be treated with Daconil?

Daconil treats a number of diseases and fungi. I use it because it's the only thing available at Lowes, and because a number of palm nurseries recommended it, including JungleMusic in Encinitas.

I have Betrocks Guide, and that page on cold protection, damage and treatment is helpful. I'd rather not have to worry about over-doing it with copper fungicides, so I'm using Daconil. I've heard that in a pinch you can use hydrogen peroxide.

I haven't pulled out any mushy spears (thank God!) and am just spraying the area where the spikes emerge. It can't hurt, and I might save one.

i hope you can save many! just a fyi, if you ever do decide to buy the copper, bonide makes one and you can buy it on line if a nursery doesn't carry it. http://www.planetnatural.com/site/liquid-copper-fungicide.html