New to composting - does this composter look worthwhile??

Hi everyone. I think I'm going to try my hand at composting this year. Truthfully, I get a little overwhelmed when I try to read up on the subject, so I think I want to start simple...

I'm thinking of getting the bin described and pictured below. It's fairly pricey, though, so I am interested in any feedback on whether this is a waste of money or worthwhile?? Thanks for your help!

The World’s Only Continuous/Tumbling Composter
These hybrid composters combine the speed of a batch composter with the ease and steady output of a bin system. The Compost Factories are easy-turning, fast-cooking composters that let you add waste every day, and harvest the finished compost at any time. Like many revolutionary ideas, the concept is brilliantly simple: as yard waste breaks down, it moves to the back of the main drum and as the composter fills, material enters a smaller inner drum for final “aging”. This two-stage process happens automatically as you rotate the drum, and the finished compost is automatically discharged out the exit port.

Here's a picture of how it supposedly works...

I do not know, but it makes since to me. Up there you might see if they have black as I hear that black holds or absorbs sun heat better. How much is it and where are you looking at? I may want one too. I know that I did not answer your question, hopefully someone knowledgable will. Thanks, Mike

Mike - this is from Gardner's Supply located in Burlington, VT. Link below. The cost is $350 for the smaller one (48 gallons), $450 for the larger (88 gallons). Pretty steep considering you can just make a pile...but I don't want to be turning a pile by hand - I'd rather be planting something than turning compost :o) It doesn't appear to come in black. I have a fairly shaded yard though so I don't know how much black would help.

http://www.gardeners.com/Compost-Factory/default/StandardCatalog.20706.35-616RS.cpd

I know what you mean about turning by hand. I fractured my back about five years ago. I have a small backhoe earthforce ef1, similar to the bobcat b100 but no longer in manufacture. There is a quarter horse ranch about a half mile from me. Last year I rented a dump trailer and brung in a bunch of manure mixed with sawdust. We have a small landscape business also an dump leaves and have access to grass clippings but am concerned about the weeds in the clippings and the horse manure(even though their pasture appears to have less weeds than mine). I do not think my compost pile gets hot enough to kill the seeds and with that comtraction you found would surely get hot enough here in Texas. Some of those composters say they have the compost ready in 2 weeks. It seems like the advantage of this one is the extra chamber to let the ready stuff in while the other stuff stays in the other chamber. I hope that someone with experience finds your thread because I am not sure my wife would let me buy this. Sorry for being so long winded. Take care, Mike

No one who has had one on DG yet has had any great results with a composter that is in an enclosed space. All of them hold in the moisture and create an anaerobic environment thus producing dog manure not compost. The sales pitch is always that it speeds up the composting process and has a unique way to make it quicker or easier. I would save my money and lay it on the ground and wait the 2 months that it would take in the summer to cook in NH. Want to speed it up? Chip and shred the pieces your are putting in. Tumblers are a great soil mixer and hardly a composter.

When we moved into our house 4 1/2 yrs ago, it was built on "hardpan". We have spent the last few years digging up rock, tree branches, etc and trying to soften the soil. The week we moved in, it rained the entire week!!!! We watched helplessly as alot of our top soil got washed away. We're on the top of a hill and most of our top soil landed at the bottom. I'm sure those neighbors must have loved that!!! We have tried to rebuild the lawns and create flower beds.
I am nowhere near satisfied with what I have and it's still an ongoing process. So we began composting immediately. We bought two of the black compost bins from Garden Supply. (I can see that the price has gone up since we bought them). It has air holes on the side for ventilation and holes on the top to let water drip in during rain storms and melting snow. We have them in full sun and the black builds up more heat. Every once in awhile, my husband dumps a few cans of cheap beer in during warmer weather to help speed up the process. We add the usual stuff (grass clippings, pine needles, vegetable scraps, coffee grounds). We leave a pitch fork stuck in the ground next to each bin. Every time we add something, we give it a turn. If it hasn't rained, I'll water it. We have been able to get a complete batch every 4-6 months. I have a wonderful batch ready for spring planting.
I considered buying the same composter but I just couldn't justify the price. Check out the Master Gardener "Jerry Baker". He's got some great advice about composting using something as simple as a garbage can.

http://compost-twin.com/factorystore.asp

I'm skeptical, especially at that price. All for compostng, but you could buy lots of stuff in bags for that.

I would not waste the money on the commercial compost bin. From other people's experiences (its great to learn from others on forums like) its my understanding that the "compost machines" tend to be less forgiving and are not as simple as just piling it up and letting it rot.

I would suggest that you start a compost pile without a bin. If you need some enclosure to protect the pile from pets, my dogs tend to dig in the pile if its not fenced in, for starters, I would suggest a chicken wire or hardware cloth fence staked in a circle.

Personally, my bin is fence panels, hinged together with hardware cloth stapled inside. The hinges allow me to open up one or two sides, the hardware cloth keeps things from straying outside the fence panels. The fence panels are not mandatory....

The most experienced composters, who love to give wry advice, hang out at www.themicroherd.com

you mean there is another world out there, besides Dave's Garden?????

Thank you for the feedback. I will definitely have to reconsider...not too hard with that price tag!

I don't have get full sun anywhere. Partial sun (3 hours) is the best I get - and I wouldn't consider putting a compost pile in the middle of my only sunny bed! Will I still have success with a pile?

Sun helps but not that necessary. You can read on how to heat up the piles to get them going. Once going they are fine. I live in a colder area than you and I produce compost every 2 months in the summer and get another one from fall through winter and its ready by early June. I use a 3 pile system.

SongsofJoy, you might want to check out this article, and see if it would work for you, we love the cold method, very easy, and you can compost your waste as you get it. http://www.texasstar.org/index.php?pg=composting
Josephine.

Songs,

My compost is in the shade -- FULL shade. Last summer I joined DG and found my way here to the soil & composting forum where they were talking about 60 days for finished compost (as opposed to the 12 month "leave it sit" leafmold compost I had been doing for a couple decades.

I was able to achieve that "60-day" compost in my full shade compost heap without turning or anything. Just mixing the greens and browns together before I added them to the pile gave me a hot pile. Worked great. Mr. Clean was very impressed. I used his magic elixir a couple times. Soferdig can tell you more....I got the idea from him.

Suzy

http://cleanairgardening.com/compostingbin1.html

This is what I use -- I have two of them. Turning the pile is SO easy when you can just lift the bin up and put it over there, then shovel the stuff back into it. I'm one of the ones that the compost tumbler did NOT work for. As Sofer says, it's great for mixing dirt. Not to say it won't work -- as carbo has had success! But they no longer put air holes on the sides of the one I got and it was a MESS!!!

Sofir-cool system. We have the lazy man compost over here-just a pile at the back of the yard. When I was in college, I used an old chicken cage (or coop) for composting-open around all sides, and I'd just turn the thing over to turn it! Found it for free.

I have what brigidlily has- the county gave them to promote use. It is a good system for me. Also one more solid bin with a lid on top door on the bottom of one side( maybe earthmachine?), but haven't gotten the compost to work itself enough to actually dig out from the door like they say you can. still a layer of dry leaves etc around the sides. but I think it does improve my process. still move it and refill, like brigidlily. Keeps it neater and more contained than open piles, not that open piles offend me in any way. I want to hold onto all my preciousssss leaves, once I've actually gone to the trouble of raking them.
Tropicanna- that sounds great too esp for free. Gotta love scrounging-reusing.

Every time you turn the pile, especially after freezing it becomes very broken down and also more mixed with greens and browns. Why is everyone so worried about turning a pile. It takes me less time to turn my piles than to plant a tree. Most of my first pile is large pieces and chipped and shredded stuff but by the 2nd pile the only structure is pine needles and small sticks. In the spring I have a tendency to have energy and chip and shred but in the fall I just pile it up let it freeze and as soon as thawed I toss it to the left to start the cook in march. Ready in June. Then I have 1 in July for garden expantion, and lastly one in October for top dressing for winter. If it isn't completly broken down I still lay it on the beds to continue to decompose for spring growth.

You know, all the dissing that goes on about the tumblers, and mine works great! If I'm paying attention and turn it a lot during the summer when the sun is on it and have a nice balance of green and brown (with Dr. Earth Compost Starter too), I have friable compost in three weeks. Not two, as advertised, but three which I still think is pretty good. I have it in the shade this winter and am pretty much treating it like a sit and wait compost pile and it still seems to be working great. I hire a handyman periodically to help with heavy things and he helped me move it a couple of weeks ago. He wanted to see inside and I was happily surprised at how beautiful it was getting with no tumbling and no sun. Mine is the large CompostTumbler.

I purchased these two composters about ten years ago at a local gardening show for about $35.00 each They have ventilation slots on all sides and a sliding door for compost removal. They are made from recycled plastic and have two lids on top for loading the material. For better access the complete top is also removable. The lids are designed to catch a little rainwater for the addition of moisture.They are probably available elswhere although the cost may have increased. The composters work great!

I'm not sure we're dissing the tumblers and bins, exactly, it's just that , for me, any of the bins and tumblers are just too small. Think of a VW Beetle sized pile. Now how many tumblers would I have to buy?

Once having said that, I live in a neighborhood where everybody seems to have a pile off in the corner of the yard. My pile backs up to my neighbor's pile of huge limbs that are bigger than most people's trees. The neighborhood is heavily wooded and we all have mature plantings. Others of us (in the soil/composting forum) live out in the boonies or maybe have acres and acres. BUT I have seen a lot of pictures of gardens where there are no trees to speak of, certainly nothing taller than the surrounding houses. There are no fences and it is very open. I can see that it wouldn't be in keeping with the neighborhood to have a big old VW sized pile of dead leaves and grass clippings, so for those people a bin or tumbler is the way to go because it is neater and cleaner looking, not because it is worth the money. LOL!

Probably the best way to answer the question -- Should I get this? -- is to ask how big a property the person has and how much garden refuse they throw away in the trash that they could compost instead. So, Songs, how big is your property and how much garden refule do you throw away that you could compost instead? Would the tumbler pictured be big enough for your needs? Do you need something nice and compact, or would a pile, or two or three, work?

Suzy





This message was edited Feb 3, 2007 11:58 PM

Costco usually has a similar design in the spring for $35 - $40. I have one and it works fine.

Rocco, I have two of those also. They were my first bins (I now also use rubbermaid garbage cans). I see these black bins offered for about $70 to $90 now. I bought mine about five years ago and paid about $60, I think. They are small, and don't heat up much and take awhile to produce, and also are hard to turn, but I'm happy with them overall, since I need to keep my piles neat and contained.

Stellapathic, you said something that made me laugh. Despite all the "dissing" as you say, of tumblers, I would LOVE to have one! I wish I could afford a double ComposTumbler, and also have been eyeing for some time the same one that SongsOfJoy started off this thread with.

This past summer I called about a classified ad I saw for a ComposTumbler for $90. The woman said it had been taken immediately, and that she must've gotten 100 phone calls! So I guess I'm not the only one who wants one!

Dee

Suzy, I have a little less than 1/2 acre. It is mostly shaded and woodsy, so I would be able to create a spot for a pile without causing an eyesore in the neighborhood, but it would be in complete shade. Over the next couple years, I plan to turn just about every inch of my yard into gardens. Because I have mostly shade and woodland type gardens, most of my plants require richer soil - so I suspect my compost need will outgrow what a tumbler can produce eventually. I guess I just wanted to start small and easy because my only experience with composting was, as a child, having to make the nightly foray into a scary dark corner of the yard to dump the dinner waste LOL. I don't recall my parents ever doing anything with their pile - it was just a place for scraps. So all that is to say, I don't really know much about composting - when I do try to educate myself, I get a bit overwhelmed - browns, greens, worm castings, etc... that's all new to me. I thought you just dumped scraps and voila - compost. I guess that's not quite how it works, huh?

As for your second question: I don't know how much compostable yard waste I will have. The vast majority of my trees are oak. Are oak leaves good for composting, or are they too acidic? I only have a small section of lawn and my husband likes to mulch the grass and leave it there when he mows. So I won't have grass clippings either. It's just the two of us, so we don't produce a huge amount of kitchen waste. I am guessing that I will have to scrounge around, beg and steal (just kidding!) for compostable waste - another reason I wanted to start small.

Thanks for all your input. I appreciate it!

edited for spelling

This message was edited Feb 4, 2007 1:26 PM

Hi again songs. I have heard that after things are composted that they end up with a neutral PH, but again wait for someone more experienced than I to answer that too acidic question. I was thinking that if you were going to eventually turn most of the yard into garden that you might leave alot of the leaves where they lie and just rake up enough so that it does not smother your grass and when your husband mows the grass the greens and browns should compost naturaly where they lie. The leaves that he does rake, he could stockpile and gradually mix some grass clippings and kitchen scraps with. You have plenty of browns and I have read somewhere, maybe in this post, that coffee grounds count as greens. I go to starbucks when I pass one and get their used grounds. Some of them have said that they are not keeping them in the winter (could let them know you want them), but others have large amounts because most small gardeners are not doing anything in the winter, so you could probably get some from starbucks when you are in town. I have 5.5 acres and no trees other than what I have planted the last 3 years. I have been trying to stockpile leaves (with no care as to what kind) from our small landscaping business and other landscapers have seen our piles and and asked about dumping theirs here so that in the spring and summer I can mix grass clippings with the stockpiled leaves. I also have plenty of horse pastures around me to get manure from. I would like to let the piles set for a year or two to have a better chance of killing any weed seeds, but I have been thinking about a composter also to speed some up and to be sure it gets hot enough to kill the weed seeds and then I could use that small amout around some of the plants and trees. I have a small backhoe to mix my piles with which are probably about 4' high and 10' in diameter. I get nothing but sun all day here but I hope to eventually have some shade. There I go getting long-winded again. Mike

Composting is just what you describe as a child doing. Put it there an it will be. When you start getting large amounts you will have to take the lessons from the small pile and use them with future composting plans. Just read this on occasion and you will find the ideas for what you need to find. Enjoy Songs of Joy!

Songs: Oak leaves make great compost and I use a lot of them, and some folks on this forum collect hundreds of bags of them to compost. They take a little longer to compost than some others but mulching or shredding to a smaller size will speed that up considerably. I also mulch all of my planting beds with them in fall.

My husband likes to mulch all clippings into the lawn, too. We compromise on that and he'll collect a few strips of clippings each time to add to the compost. This is plenty to keep it going. Most go into the lawn. I use a leaf vacuum to collect and shred some leaves before he mows, and some go back into the lawn. I also collect all kinds of leaves from neighbors and hoard them, shredded, in large plastic garbage cans, for future compost needs.

Heat for compost comes primarily from the biological process within the compost, not from the sun. You can place your bin or pile in shade and have it will heat well if it's managed well. If it's not managed well (re: C:N ratio, moisture, turning) it won't heat well in sun or shade. But it will rot eventually anyway.

Karen

One other point that I forgot to mention. Sofer says turning a pile is no big deal and he does it in no time. I don't doubt that but he's probably a young, healthy, muscular guy. My 56 year old husband can flip my whole compost bin contents in 5 minutes without too much effort.

It is, however a big deal for me, a small woman in my mid 50s. It probably takes me 1/2 hour to do and I'm working hard! I do it, not too often, but I do enjoy it. Weird, I know.

Last spring and summer I was very ill for months. I had a neuropathy in one leg which caused me to fall, resulting in a severe ankle sprain. Add to that 4 surgeries (3 abdominal) in 4 months, I was a mess. Compost was the last thing on our minds and it didn't get turned in those months. Around fall I bought a Biostack bin which I was actually able to turn more readily, and when I turned it it was already broken down far more than I would have expected. The only attention it had gotten was occasional grass clippings and leaves thrown on top with no mixing or turning.

Bottom line: if you're small, female, older, and/or have physical limitations, turning a pile can indeed be very difficult at least, impossible for some. Take these things into consideration in deciding what method to use. For some a cold pile is all they can manage, but it the end you do get some compost with little effort. For others a large scale operation, well managed with large, frequent amounts of compost is easy as pie. But there is some form that is good for you and you will find it as you progress. Rotting organic matter is not rocket science unless you want it to be.

Another easy method is sheet composting. You can find information on it by searching "lasagna gardening", "sheet composting", or "interbay mulch". No turning required. Even just mulching your beds with organic materials will work, just not as well or as fast.

Most of us who follow compost forums, are obviously individuals who are actually interested in it and enjoy the process. Some are certifiable compost wackos, and proud of it! Just jump in and give it a try and you'll be happy that you did. For problems encountered or trouble shooting there's usually someone here who can help.

Karen

karen, you and I had the same summer except for the neuropathy and ankle sprain. My three surgeries were all abdominal, and I felt like I spent the whole summer either in the hosp. or recuperating. Certainly wasn't interested in turning a compost pile. Finally everything was back in place and working okay. So hopefully I will have a better summer. And besides I am close to 81 years old.

I do have 7 different compost piles and movable drum compposter. They are all covered with about 10 inches of frozen snow now and have been since mid-Nov. Luckily I garden on/in 5 1/2 acres of space. So no problem with hiding compost piles.

Donna

rutholive: How wonderful that you can still garden and compost. I sure hope I can do the same at your age. Not many folks your age will even venture near a computer, either. Good for you!

Wishinging you a wonderful summer, good health, and happy composting!

Karen

Yes kqcrna I am a buff muscular young, Type 1 diabetic, 54year old, arthriticly inclined, dude. I have to have projects to keep me moving to prevent all of those issues from overcoming the reality of the facts. Compost turning is a good aerobic activity that gives me a boost of energy to enjoy the life of diabetes. Donna you need to stay away from surgeons. Once they cut they keep it up and mess something else up so their other surgeon can have the next cut. LOL

Yep, I agree. I think when this guy did my knee surgery, he put a little "planned obsolescence" in there so he'd be guaranteed another operation at some point. I plan to disappoint him.

Sofer: You seem to be suggesting that we are physically equal? Because you are diabetic you think you and I have the same muscle mass? Strength? I am 54, female, 5'3", 140 lb., in the past year had 4 surgeries of which 3 were abdominal, plus a nephrostomy , a leg neuropathy which is still present, an ankle sprain in April which is still unstable and black and blue. If you think arthritis is painful (yes I have arthritis) pray that you never have a liver resection or prolonged neuropathy which prevents you from even supporting your own body weight. If you're not stronger than both me and rutholive you'd better stop avoiding those doctors as you are recommending to Donna. Yes, turning compost is great exercise and I hope that I will be able to continue to do so.

Maybe I was too wordy but I was trying to point out that
1.turning a pile can indeed be difficult or impossible for some people but that even cold, unturned compost happens and
2. there is a method of composting for everyone.

Now I'll shut up, and I'm sure that you are all thankful.

Karen

Karen, thanks so much for the information. I can't really blame my reluctance to turn compost to physical limitations. I'm 33, strong and healthy (but some days I do feel twice my age LOL). I guess I just don't want to spend a lot of time tending a compost pile. I already have a lot of work cut out for me in landscaping my yard, so I was looking for an easier solution. But, if I know myself, I will most likely join the crew of certifiable compost wackos and, like you, might end up enjoying the task of turning compost! Hope this year is better for you, healthwise. That's a lot to overcome in one year! Keep up the good work.

Rutholive - you are my hero! I can only hope I will be up to gardening and composting when I'm 81!!

Christina

Songs -- Looks like you've been getting some good advice.

Before I joined DG last summer, I never turned a compost pile and I've had one for over 25 years. I just added to the top and took from the bottom. Because it was mostly leaves and sticks -- oh, some kitchen waste, but mostly leaves -- I could use it before it was totally composted.

Oddly enough turning the pile has nothing to do with strength for me -- it was more frustration. I would just get all kinds of things stuck on my manure fork each time I got a forkful, and it was frustrating having to pull them off the times before the next forkful.

If you're going to be re doing (reclaiming) your backyard, you can change the compost pile from point A to Point B, always keeping ahead of your garden plans. Then you know the soil in each area will be very nice -- it would have had a cpost pile on it for a year or two!

If you have more leaves that greens, get some used coffee grounds! Great stuff! Heavy stuff, BTW, so plan on stopping in to your source frequently. In lieu of that, try horse manure. Seems that if there is no Starbucks around there ought to be horses. :))

Suzy

Thanks and good luck to you Christina. And you don't have to flip the compost very often. Also, consider lasagna gardening. It's definitely the easiest way to go.

Karen

Thanks everybody.

I don't turn my compost. I just start a new pile and use the old one when it is ready, But I can do that easily. No one lives near me and I have lots of room. I have posted photos of my compost area before, but in case there is someone watching this thread who hasn't seen them here is one from last year.

Donna

You have to be quiet Donna. There are 2 DGers now in Tonasket. One just started 2 weeks ago. I forget the name. Did she contact you yet?

Donna: Nice compost set-up. And the view beyond looks breathtaking.

I've only been to Washington once but our travels were pretty much limited to the Olympic Peninsula. It might have been the prettiest place I've ever seen. I hope someday to get back and explore more of the state.

Karen