Blowing on or brushing seedlings...which is better?

This is my first year starting seeds indoor under florescent lights. I've heard that it's good to lightly brush your hands across them to make the stems more sturdy. Can I just lightly blow on them once a day? Should I use a fan instead? TIA, Tamara

Wow. Thats a little over the top. The benifits are so small its really not worth worrying about. The main thing is that the get enough air circulation to ensure disease and fungus doesn't get on them.
that would be just by ensuring propagators have air vents or just in the open air.

Hope that helps

Mike

Also grow on the dry side-you will get better roots and stronger stems. You would be surprised how dry the seedlings can take it, and what great roots there are.

I agree, don't worry about it. But I must admit that I do breath on my seedlings, The CO2 must be good for them, right. I alway check on my seedling at least once a day.

I won't be starting anything for a few weeks, but it always get hard this time of year. So I spend time catching up on my notes and seed starting supplies, I should place my germination soil order soon.

I'm having trouble waiting, too. I have my seed order in and awaiting my seeds. DH is almost done with the seedling table. Just needs to finish up some wiring. This will be my first year with a serious try at starting seeds. Last year I started a few pumpkins and gourds in a tray, I did get a few plants from that. Also, I rooted Ornamental Sweet Potatoes that went very well. This weekend I did Red Bud Trees, Last fall I collected seed pods from my tree, and stored them on my porch for several months. This weekend I tried several different approaches, soaked some in orange juice, nicked some with a file, and just planted some as they were. Put them outside in milk jugs and will wait and see what I get if anything.
Holly

Keep your fluorescent lights just above your seedlings to keep them stocky. I breath on my plant leaves too. A fan wouldn't hurt to keep stale air moving.

DH is building me shelving and it's my first year to get serious too. I always do tomatoes and peppers, but barely had window room for all of them when they got big. I'm excited!!!

Sally

Surely you spray your seedlings with warm/tepid water for humidity?
That will do more good than 'blowing'.

Taramark, do you need to do that if you water from the bottom? They are all in peat pots in a large waterproof tray. I pour warm water into the tray until it's about 1" high and then just let the pots absorb the water. Should I also be misting? Tamara

zonegirl, I would not be misting the seedlings. I only mist the seeds until they germinate. Also, make sure that the seedlings are getting a chance to dry out some before watering.

Thanks, tigerlily! If you don't mind my asking...did you go to school for horticulture (or something similar)? I am always impressed by how much you know. Tamara

Thanks Tamara-no I was an English Lit major!! 17th century at that lol

I just am a commercial grower-specifically I am a wholesale annual bedding plant grower. I had a nursery when we lived in Hawaii and when we moved here, I got into the annuals. Tropicals and annuals and perennials I can do-most shrubs and trees-forget it!

Well, the Music Majors mist the seedlings because the humidity
is so low in the house. They thrive.

taramark...that was funny! Unfortunately, my years as a commercial grower far outnumber my years in college-why is it, the older you get, the faster time goes by???

Anyway, the reason I say don't mist the seedlings is because humidity is your worst enemy in growing seedlings-and annuals. Humidity brings on fungus that your seedlings are susceptible to-like rhizoctonia (damping off-where the stems just seem to melt and fall over). One of the hardest jobs in growing is when to water. Everyone who grows commercially will tell you the same. Over the years though, I have learned that letting the plants dry out, and keeping them on the dry side is the best thing you can do for them. It cuts down on fungus and promotes healthy roots. Not so dry that your plants are constantly wilting-but where the soil is dryer more than it is wet. I never water in the evening/late afternoon anymore. I have learned to let the plant stay really dry over the night and water first thing in the morning and resist the temptation to water right away. I treat the seedlings the same way-my concern is always going to be good root growth-because when you have the roots-the foliage will grow, and when you have good root growth, you can fertilize with a higher ppm.

In the grhouse-I don't want humidity. If it is too humid in there, then I turn the fans on ( they are set at 78) to clean out the humidity.

In writing this-and other posts that I have written-it is not my intention to come across as a "know it all". Just to share my growing knowledge, in the hopes that it will prevent others from making mistakes that I have made in the past-

Tigerlily,

I appreciate and compliment you on your fine knowledge.

I understand fungi, root growth, and all the valid points you explain.

Perhaps it is the difference in the climates in which we live, but I have never
had any problems with fungi, root growth, or damping off.

To each his own.

Corinne

I didn't know about keeping the seedling on the dry side. Ya learn something every day here on Dave's Garden

Hmmm... And across the pond comercially we install mist units with electronic leaves to ensure that everything is allways damp and has 90% humidity!
I think its a reginal thing depending on the climate etc.
We too don't have many damping off problems or mildew etc.

A bit like some countries like holland grow using liquid feeds where as in england we love using slow release stuff.


Mike

No problems here either. I do mist my seedlings, and keep the germination soil damp. Had one episode with damping off, that was when I first started and used some potting soil I had laying around. That was my first lesson learned the hard way.

And Mike I love the slow release stuff ! Hate messing with the mixing mess.

In the garden i use tonnes of Blood fish and Bone. It lasts all season and i get great results. But stick to what works for you. Its often the best way.

Hey Tamara- in our area I'd only mist until they germinate for most species. Sure, you can have a few stragglers that don't germinate and could probably keep up the misting for a few days but after that your could be inviting problems. I cut back on misting (there are some exceptions) to like zip nadda zilch as soon as I have around 50% germination lest I end up with damping off issues. When I am germinating seeds indoors under metal halides, I frequently use the tray method because of the species I work with but I always use oscillating fans regardless of what I am germinating. I find this helps considerably with damping off issues. There are many ways to increase the relative humidity around a seedling and misting is but one means by which this can be done although it isn't generally in the best interests of a seed sown indoors under artificial lighting to keep up misting after a certain point regardless of what species one is working with.

Regarding commercial growers on this side of the pond, misting seems to depend upon what stage they are in. In other words, has the seed germinated or not. Seems as if once the plant has its first true leaves, the growers I know here stop misting. I know a few growers on the other side of the pond and they are in fact all misting because I've visited their greenhouses but they're well beyond the germination phase and are all dealing with mature perennials and quite a few are growing tropicals. We're not talking the germination stage but a plant that is well established. I don't do too well with tropicals myself so I certainly appreciate those who fare well with them.

I grow threatened and endangered species. I tend to keep the growing medium on the dry side such as that which was described by Tigger above but then that's what works for me. I have to be very careful with some of my seed because I've got one shot at it most of the time. If in doubt, err on the side of dryness unless you are dealing with an aquatic or wetland species. Those are the species I generally grow utilizing the tray method.

Organics; such as bone meal, blood meal, and fish emulsions don't generally last an entire season on this side of the pond but perhaps they do on the other side of the pond. Regarding the use of slow release fertilizers... what size pot do people put them in when they use them and how can one control the ppm using an SRF regardless of what size pot one is using? I suppose SRFs are ok for some perennials and definitely for woodies but I don't think SRFs are great for fast growing annuals.

Tigerlily, I prefer a know it all who knows! I'd rather learn from someone experienced, and you sound just fine!

Yup billyporter, that's what I was thinking myself being as how I grow successfully subscribing to similar practices as her. I'll take her English Lit degree and all but I sure would like to see her quoting John Donne to her crops. Now, that would be fun. Tigger should quote some 17th century prose for me and my plants. Tape record what she whips off the top of her head and I can stick her tape in a recorder down by my seedlings and lets see how they do then. I'll even turn up the volume a little bit so my plants can hear over the din of the fans. Oh Tigger... come out come out where ever you are. It's time to plaaaaaaaaaay.

Equilibrium, you may have something there. You know, they proved plants prefer classical to rock and roll, tho distorted, they are very similar. I think plants would like a reading, but would miss the carbon dioxide the tape wouldn't provide :))

Well, we could all hover around my seedlings sitting Indian style listening to her 17th century prose and we could all blow on them in unison if we didn't fall asleep bored out of our gourds first?

ROTFL!!!! I'm like Tom Sawyer. I can't sit still for very long. You're likely to wake up and catch me weeding or picking up sticks for you!

You can get antsy over by my house any day! A fearless weeder, eh? You're my kind of gal.

Oops, I think we scared the Tigger off. Here kitty kitty, here kitty kitty.

Maybe tigerlilly is right. Some plants need high humidity, for example Anthurium, so maybe other varieties enjoy a little splash in the face occasionally (It helps me sometimes, too). As for blowing or brushing, I use a small fan to keep air circulation going on my tomato and pepper seedlings (see photo). I do not talk to them, but I am careful when tending to them to think pure positive thoughts about how healthy they look and how good and tasty they will be some day. Also, for tomatoes and peppers, I bottom water only. Butr for my Anthuriums, I mist frequently.

Mike-are you saying that you are a commercial grower? what crops do you grow? I would be interested to hear about what crops you grow that can take that amt of humidity and constantly wet soil and do well-are you growing tropicals or annuals?

Greenhouses are some of the most controlled environments-there isn't anything that you can't control in them thru one means or another. In other words, once you step into a grhouse-it shouldn't matter what country you are in-so when you say that it is a regional thing and climates....that confuses me-it shouldn't matter.

That is interesting to hear about using slow release versus liquid fert when growing a crop-again though-what crop are we talking about? When growing annuals-I can't imagine how you could forgo the liquid feed. How do you adjust the ppm that the plant gets as it grows? You can't feed the same amt of ppm to a seedling or young plant as you can to a older annual, or you will burn the leaves. How much slow release do you put in when you transplant seedlings, and what is your EC reading after a week or so? How does the seedling get the fert fast when you are using a slow release? How do you distribute the slow release evenly so that you don't have uneven salt amts?
I have been using some slow release in some gallon containers, but I would love some more info on this. I have always used liquid feed ( as most commercial growers here in the States do with annuals) so that you can adjust the ppm as the plant grows, and also the PH thru the type of fert that you use ( basic or acidic fert)
What slow release do you use-sulfur coated or poly? With poly-the temps of the soil have to be around 70 degrees, and I just did a soil temp in one of the grhouses and it was 60 degrees-but sulfur coated lowers the PH, as much as a point, but it releases at 45 degree.

Also, if you are using slow release in the grhouse for small plants, why would you use organic ferts that don't last long and have small macro numbers outside, when slow releases would be great out there?

Hiya,
You ask if i grow commercially. This is our website, (not very fancy but we don't do internet business) www.crowders.co.uk
Its a large place mostly dealing in Hardy nursery stock for the amenity trade i run the Retail side so trade with exterior nurseries. Sorry i no longer get my hands dirty so don't know exact figures for nutrients etc. I travel buying plants each year to trade looking for new saleable lines.
I visit nursery companies in germany Italy etc.
Every country and nursery does things differently.
Moulds and mildews also depend on the ph of your water and how many chems in it!

Hope that helps

Mike

That is really a neat website. So much history and the business has been in the family for a couple hundred years. You rarely see that type of history on this side of the pond. How awesome is that! I read the page about what your company was like during the 1940's and knew exactly why they flipped to food production- fruit trees. That got my attention right away as I have a small orchard here of about 30 trees- don’t laugh! I’m not in the nursery business!

Amenity trade is mostly plants for parks and other large areas, correct? So you probably grow out a lot of woodies, right? I am particularly fond of woodies myself. I tried to look at the plants your company offered but your website said "coming soon" in those areas. Looks as if you must have a decent sized retail operation that offers all kinds of goodies. Are you a buyer for that end of the business too or just plants? I think I'd like to be a buyer for a nursery particularly if it had a gift shop or a garden center and was offering bird baths and such. Well, either that or the activities director for a cruise ship would be nice but I don't suppose those jobs are all that available and then there would be the problem of who would take care of our kids while I was gone for weeks at a time.

I've got some personal friends over on your side of the pond but they are all small growers dealing in herbaceous perennials that they propagate themselves and none of them have a garden center or gift shop associated with their businesses. They're not buyers like you because their operations are too small. Nothing large scale and certainly no trees and shrubs like what you must have because they simply don't have the space. I'm more of a tree gal like you because I'm dealing with large open spaces on my property. After seeing the website, I do believe I have a better understanding of how you are using SRFs and that makes more sense to me now. I use SFRs in the pots of the woodies I propagate too.

And Mike, "Sorry i no longer get my hands dirty"- hang around all of US long enough and we will change that! There is no way you can keep those fingernails clean for long around a place like this. You must garden a little bit just for yourself at your own home? You've got goodies in your frig! I saw them in another thread!

Ah you got me there, i get my hands dirty at home as its why i got into the business. Plants are my passion!
I do alot of buying for the retail side, we have gifts infact i'm at the Nec in Birmingham on wednesday looking at gifts and 2 of the girls went yesterday. I'll be looking for food items this year as we recently opened a farm shop selling fresh veg and frozen stuff too. We do furniture and all the other gardening stuff. Also have a coffee shop. I'm thinking of opening a Golf shop sometime but it needs a bit of though.

I have a job vacancy at the moment for someone who will run the online shop and the website if anyone is interested. hehe Might be a bit far to travel though. I wrote the website for the "everything for your garden" side, so sorry for the lack of spelling! lol

Yeah Amenity mainly means boring. lol The nursery grows millions of Hawthorn plants for hedging and motorways etc. The do have the odd interesting bit. Like this year i was surprised to see they had grown Davidii involucrata it can be hard to find over here some times.

Some people don't agree with what i do because they prefer to deal with small specialist nurseries, i like going to those but they can't offer te service that i can. We offer a day out for the family not just plants, the plants make up a part of what we do but not all.

To be able to employ good plant trained staff you need a business that is all year round. I have met a few people on here that dont understand the business side of garden centres. Shame really as they could have some good imput into the trade if they got involved.

Speak soon

Mike

Pretty funny actually. So, no vacancy on a cruise ship as an activities coordinator? What's this world coming to!

Actually, I'll be on your side of the pond this summer. My husband and the kids want to go back to tour the Cutty Sark and visit a military and a few wax museums and then they want to go on a few ghost tours with family friends of ours who have a flat in London and then I'm planning on disappearing to Kew. I think their kids might be coming back with us for holiday but I'm not sure yet.

You wouldn't want me working for you. I talk back (ask my husband) and am absolutely worthless when it comes to computers. I could just see your entire site going down if I was hired- ha ha ha, trust me here... I am very bad with computers. I'm decent with plants though and those "amenity species" you refer to as boring are a favorite staple of mine in a landscape with Quercus spp. and Crataegus mollis being all time favorites but I could rattle of at least a hundred more woodies that are favorites because I love so many. I can assure you that the only plus to me would be that I am a seasoned veteran with a credit card in that I know how to use it when visiting online nurseries and garden centers (ask my husband because he gets the bills these days).

Poor husband heheh

Kew is great but its a long way from here. I love the new house they have, can't remmeber the name. If you do come over try to get to the Eden project in Cornwall. Its a long way from london but really worth the trip especially if you have kids.

Ghost tours! heheh I'm sure the uk could provide plenty of that. Most of my neighbours could have died years ago but they forgot to lie down! lol
I dont find amenity spaces boring just the rows and rows of nursery plants like Hedera hibernica in the millions! Not so bad once there planted in somewhere nice.

Thank God for Credit cards heheh.
Luckily i never have any debt on it though.

Mike

Wow Mike, your link is impressive. I think I've seen your refrigerator too! It amazes me that we're so far apart and you grow everything Iowa grows. Cool!

I don't know that we'll have time but the Eden Project looks interesting.

Yes, credit cards are my "friend", particularly when the bill goes to my husband. Rows and rows of Hedera hibernica would make me go nuts too. That plants is invasive over here. What else does your nursery grow other than woodies?

Hi Billy,
I like growing stuff thats a little different to normal here, i do have plenty of boring normal stuff too.
The thing with plants are is that often they are the same thing but having different parentage they have large differences. Our nursery grows for instance Hawthorn but it has large differences in where the seed has come from. They try and match the area of the country its going to ensure it grows better. So even stuff we both have might be different enough to be interesting!
Eq, Honestly make the time if you possibly can.
Hmm you want me to list everything they grow! lol
They have a container nursery growing Ornamental trees, Fruit trees, 2-3 ltr shrubs and a few climbers, Some larger specimen shrubs in various sizes, conifers/pines etc and some herbaceous lines.
Also a transplant nursery with small hedging plants like thorn beech etc
And a field grown tree nursery for large trees ranging from Acers at 3-4 meters tall to Ulmus at a few feet tall.

The guys there grow a large range but its never enough so we trade with lots of other nurseries to plug gaps in orders for large projects becoming a one stop shop!

Well thats the idea anyway. lol

Credit cards are a real plague over here, I think they are used differently in the US though.

Mike

That is so interesting Mike. I didn't know that. I love to see the differences we all have with gardens and gardening practices.

I rarely use a credit card myself.

Sorry just looked at my reply ..... god i waffle on! lol

ROTFL!!!! Not a problem!!!

Hi Mike-thanks for replying! I thought you were the grower-thats why I was asking all the questions...sorry! I think I understand the operation that you guys have going on there though-its woodies ( shrubs and trees) that you are growing, and they are propagated under misting systems! I think we were talking apples and oranges lol I was talking about annual seedlings -much more susceptable to a fungus with excess humidity. Two totally different plants and growing methods. I have often wished that I was growing woodies as they are much easier to grow! Although annuals are a much faster crop-guess its a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence lol

Also, nursery growers do add slow release fert to the soil when growing woodies, so that makes sense to me. Great operation you guys have there!!