Straw Bale Gardening - 2007 - (part 6)

Thanks Jeanette.
I am experimenting with different plants now.
I will post pic's on the progress as time goes by.
I'm in zone 9b. We can plant most of the year.


thanks for the info

Jeanette: you're right about the cattle panels, if you can get them locally; they would work ALOT better than that rolled-up concrete wire I used, especially for short rows.

I wanted to put Chesapeake's comment from Part 5 in a "quote box" so it would make more sense, but couldn't figure out the directions in the FAQ section on how to do that. I know it's probably easy to do.

For the new members of our thread, have you put your marker on our map?

Go to this link: http://www.frappr.com/strawbalegardeners

Kent

Kent

Would 4x5 fence wire sometimes known as dog wire work as trellis? That is what I am planning to use. I would think it was firmli attatched to the posts with wire it would be fine. It's not heavy or hard to work with.

Kent - you have D-mail.

Cajun: 10-4 on the dog wire, or anything that will support the weight of the tomatoes you're planning to grow.

Anything with a hole large enough for your hand & tomato works best so you can work from either side, but that's more for convenience.

johnson: got the dmail; thanks again

Kent

I was going to try something this year, using my hay bales that had fallen apart from last year. I was going to purchase some cheap plastic boxes, about the size of earth boxes, drill holes in the bottom for drainage, and stuff the hay in them and plant. I am going to try at least a couple to see how that would work, so you wouldn't have to buy new hay bales.

Chiele, That will be interesting. Be sure you get enough holes for drainage. The water goes right thru the straw. Be sure to take pictures and keep us posted.

Jeanette

things are staring to sprout.

dont know how clear this pic is going to come out
but here is the beginning of my experiment with flowers.

I forgot whats in here but I know I have some daisies
maybe some sweat pea. don't know what else. I just through a
bunch of seeds on the bales with some soil to see what would happen.

time will tell.

GG!! That is so exciting! Those bigger ones sure do look like Nasturtiums. Do you know if they are trailing or the regular plants? So fun!

Jeanette

Dont know ,
LOL

just tossed them in and forgot about them.
kinda like a pot luck surprise. LOL

Jnette, I agree - GG's sprouts look like nasturtiums to me too (I have some w/sown sprouts that look just like those!)

Hmmm, somehow I missed this forum when considering new garden plot ideas, but I'm going to keep an eye on this. I like the sounds of it!

~Sunny

another pic

Yup, Nasturtiums. LOL I love them.

The season is young Sunny. Plenty of time to make up your mind. Wish we were closer to planting time like you guys are. I do like the different seasons, but when I look out at over a foot of snow on the ground and realize it probably will still be there for another 3 or 4 months it is kind of depressing.

Jeanette

You should try wintersowing Jnette - it keeps the hands in the dirt a bit over the winter and we have lots of people from your zone doing it this year. This is my first real year growing flowers from seed and I'm very excited!

I may try one or two bales, but I've already bought the Mel's mix components and gotten the wood to build the SFG's this year; DH would probably keel over, as I'm already hard pressed to show how home grown is cheaper than store bought on this initial investment of amendments, seed and such :) Since SFG is long lasting, I am trying to keep him focused on the fact that it's just an initial layout, which will last several years except for seed. He's sold on the more nutritional aspect at least, and the better taste after our initial baby garden last year.

But I really like reading what everyone has done; I'm making my way through the older threads as time permits.

Happy Friday!

~Sunny

Jnette, Yuck
Im from NY so I know the feeling.
Spoke to my daughterin NY last night and she told me it was 8degrees out.I dont miss it.

I love living in the south and will never go back. EVER . LOL

Sunny: Happy Friday to you too. = )

Ok Sunny, What forum are they wintersowing on? Please tell me what Mels Mix is? Components? and SFGs are? I need something MORE to spend money on. LOL

Believe me, the straawbale gardening is probably the cheapest gardening project I have ever done.

Jeanette

I just found you guys today. Looking good. As an experiment I grew lettuce on a couple of bales 2-3 years ago. Worked fine. This spring I may put a few bales in my greenhouse to grow salad greens.

Earlic2, that really looks good. Love the frog. That is a super idea to keep the bales together. Using the boards.

Jeanette

Those boards really are a good idea. We had a couple of bales of hay that were baled damp and ended up with mold so i broke them up in the square I put my bales in. Last year's bales have turned to dirt. I will put this year's bales on top of it and they will be nice and tall. Less bending. Good deal!!!

Hi, Kent and friends: I am expanding my vegetable garden a bit this year. I have a successful raised bed garden, but instead of adding another row of raised bed, I want to use three bales of straw. Problem is, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what to plant in the raised bed and what to plant in the straw. My question is, what vegetable would be best grown in the straw? I grow tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, cantaloupe, cucumbers, broccoli, onions, lettuce, carrots, beets, beans, peas - the basics. Thank you for your help!

Kimberly

This message was edited Feb 6, 2007 2:37 PM

Kimberly,

I think tomatoes will do best, perhaps even peppers. I had excellent luck last year with tomatoes but didn't try peppers. The root crops don't fare as well as above ground crops. If you plant tomatoes, make sure you have a good support system, they get pretty tall!

Red

It turns out I can't get wheat straw this season. The only things available are rice straw, grass hay, and alfalfa. Is any one of those better than the other?

Oh, and reading back several posts, why would any of these be treated with a herbicide? If it is destined for animal food, I would think it should be free of anything that might be detrimental to their health, right?

Thank you in advance.

I had much better success with grass bales than straw bales.

I'm doing straw bales for the first time this year. I plan to start with peas (petit pois, sugar pod, sugar snap, and edible pea vine). I expect them to be finished about the time that I'm ready to plant out peppers, tomatoes (det), cukes, and zucchini.

I think anything that is not a root vegetable should do well in the strawbales. Root vegetables being the potatoes, onions, carrots, and beets.

Cajun did you have any problems with the grass sprouting seeds? I think that is interesting. Out of the 3 Patricia named I would have said the Rice straw would be best. But, I have never tried the others. You might even try one bale of whichever you decide NOT to go with. That would be an interesting experiment.

Jeanette

Jnette

I didn't have much sprouting in either but less in the grass. I had many more of these little mushroom things that would sprout up overnight and wilt in the morning. But I didn't even have an abundance of these. They were in the grass bales.

I have finally finished reading all these 6 parts (it sure took a while but was worth it) and must say I was truly fascinated by all the input. I am convinced this is something I must try. I will go completely organic and use the bloodmeal as the starter. I have some ideas about other organic fertilizers to try as well which would include fish emulsion, kelp meal, and worm castings. In the regular garden and EB's I include a solution of Epsom salts at 2 tbs per qt of water when the eggplants, peppers and tomatoes produce flowers. It supposedly helps them set fruit and I do believe it works. I always include a handful in my tomato holes as well although I see that Caroline does not recommend that. I also like the idea of including some soil when one plants in the bales. I was also wondering if something like a large old Rubbermaid laundry basket could be used to contain the straw. The bales I have available to buy are small and would fit in one.
Two questions: For those of you who use EB's as well, how did the straw bale method compare to using Earthboxes in term of production?
Kent: What variety of of okra did you plant? I always plant some every year but have never seen anything like your pictures. Of course, here in NE PA (Zone 6A) I cannot expect the same results but yours were awesome.
Thanks for starting this thread. It has been enormously educational.

Why would you bother enclosing the bales --- especially with a manmade object that you'd have to put holes in to boot? You're only adding labor, cost & plastic.

I'm considering taking one of my bales and placing it in an old porcelain bath tub. As the bale gradually disintegrates I'd have a place to plant potatoes next year...

Guess what you guys!! Whatever works. If that is what you want to do, do it. I personally like just sticking a bale of straw out there and using it for something. I don't want to strain my mind or my back. I think that is the reason for using the strawbales. No hoe, no weeds, no something else. Kent, help!! Can't remember your verse. LOL Must be "no work".

Jeanette

Whew, lots of activity in the past few days. Afternoon/night shift this week and sleeping late has kept me away. Let's see if I can catch up.

Kimberly: welcome aboard. Tomatoes, peppers, cukes, squash, and okra did well with me for the past 2 years. Plan on staking anything with a stem, that doesn't run, and definitely consider a trellis system if you're going to plant alot of tomatoes. Based on my experience and what others have written from last year, it looks like anything growing ABOVE the bale has a good success rate once you get your watering & feeding schedule worked out.

Patricia: I agree with Jeanette, if you have the time and space, experiment with all three, but I only have experience with wheat & oat straw. Cajun says grass. The rice straw bale intrigues me. Never seen one of those.

Regarding the herbicides, I can only relay that I was warned by my local ag-extension agent to ask the supplier if the bale source had been treated or not. Also, my supplier of wheat straw told me some of his fellow growers did treat their fields with a herbicide to cut down on the weeds. My guy only treats his fields with ammonium nitrate fertilizer. I'm not sure about the pros/cons of treating grasses and alfalfa bales. No experience there.

gardadore: My okra were Clemson Spineless.

I wouldn't use any soil to "chink" the plants. You don't want to transfer any soil-borne diseases, bacteria, pests, etc. into the bale. Use a commercial potting mix-type additive. One of the advantages I've seen so far with bale gardening is the 2 disease-free and almost totally pest-free seasons I've had so far.

A word of caution on the rubber maid laundry basket idea. It is going to be very heavy.

Way back in the early threads there was short discussion about an English author who grew plants/vegetables in "wads" of straw. He would take 1/3 of a bale and put it in a small container and had success with that method.

I mentioned taking that same idea and use a square, plastic milk-crate type container with a "wad" of straw that would be easier to move if mobility was a consideration.

Also, there was the guy who lived in an apt. complex who put his bales in a wagon. Kept them behind his apt during the night and pulled them around the front into the empty parking spaces to get sun during the day.

Jeanette: "No weeding, no hoeing, no tilling!" :-)

Kent

Bobby: forgot to mention that my mother has been growing flowers in a porcelain tub for over 30 years. The tub used to be a watering trough for my horses.

KR

I'm thinking about doing this.
A little while back I posted that intended to do a bale garden this spring, but then found out I have cancer, and can't do much heavy work, or lifting.
I was going to have the garden over at the farm, 16 miles away, but now have decided to try this-
I'm thinking about putting four bales in a square (or however many it takes to make it) and leave some of the center open. I'm thinking I could put some loose hay, leaves, kitchen scraps, in the center and let that compost.
That would help keep the bale garden fed and moist. I have to be conservative with water here because we are on a shallow well that does go dry in times of low rain. Also the place I'm planning on putting them is on a concrete slab, so do you think I should put down plastic first, to keep the moisture from wicking into concrete pad?

Lady, so sorry about the cancer. Hope it can be taken care of.

Maybe you could get someone to place the bales once you decide what to do. What is the cement pad used for? I don't know about leaving the center open and just throwing garbage in there. First of all you would have to have an area on one bale with low growing so you could reach the compost in the middle to stir it up etc. Even compost needs air.

As far as the plastic goes, I think it depends on what the cement is for. And where would the run-off go? Guess I'm not being very helpful. Maybe someone else could answer yours and my questions?

Jeanette

Lady, also sorry to hear of your health trouble, hope you beat it and continuing to garden can be a great mood lifter. Actually strawbales can be used for compost bins up to 8' sq. I believe so your idea should be workable, actually I'm thinking of borrowing it! Just make sure you follow the rules for good compost to keep it from stinking. (No meat, grease etc) The concrete MIGHT be a problem for larger plants with deep root systems, I havent tried the strawbales yet so I don't know how likely it is that the plants roots go through the straw and into the ground, maybe the experienced folks could help you with that but IMHO I would give it try anyway if that is the only spot you have. Smaller plants like peppers and cukes, beans etc. should be fine. The only place it could be a foreseeeable problem might be things like corn or those whopper tomato plants I see some of these folks getting, your plants might not get as big if the roots cant expand into the soil below. But I say go for it, especially if that is the only spot you got!
Julie

Thanks, Kent, for clarifying about adding soil. I had amended potting soil in mind because as you rightly point out we don't want to add unwanted pests to the bales! The laundry basket I plan to use (it's an old one with broken handles) is not heavy since it has lattice-work open-cut sides which I thought would add ventilation. I wouldn't have to make any holes since about an inch from the bottom the openings begin so water can flow out. I only thought of it for holding the bale together and didn't plan to move it once in place. It'll be an experiment.
I have planted Clemson Spineless but they never went over 2 feet! Now I'm inspired to try it in the bales!
Lady's idea of adding compost materials is interesting. I think, too, it could work if started early. I would suggest covering the kitchen scraps with something like peat moss or even a potting soil or mix. Maybe one could put a layer of peat moss before adding the kitchen scraps, then another cover layer on top. Mice and other animals will go after exposed vegetable scraps and covering them with peat moss plus the loose hay and/or leaves should help smother any odors. Lots of great ideas to think about in this bitter weather!

I think that is the reason for all of the activity Kent. Spring is in the air, even tho it is so bitterly cold in a lot of places. Cabin fever, seed catalogs, you name it, it gets people started.

Jeanette

Hi folks, it's been a while since I've posted - but I'm still here and very happy with the strawbale gardening!

Gwendalou, I'm the one in Redwood City who got last year's straw from the dear folks at Pastorino's - and while we may add in a few more bales this year, it looks like most of our bales, while well-rotted, still have plenty of goodness and "oomph" left in them!
We still have a couple sets of chard that are doing well with the cut-and-come-again mode; still tasty and they haven't bolted, so what's not to love -
We added in various greens, spinach, romaine, tat soy (that's a smaller, green cousin to bok choy), some kohlrabi, and we've also got some potatoes in, as well as some volunteers from last year's lettuces!

the surprise of this spring is that slugs have figured out how to get up the partially-decomposed bales -- along with other folks who are tempted to see what's underneath last year's bales, I'm thinking if we add in a few more bales, I'll stack them up and stuff the older straw on top of the newer bales.

Stacking bales: we had put ours with the long-way sides together; it's not too much reaching to lean in from either side. Three make a close to square "unit" - we also did a five-bale row and an eight-bale row, and were happy with all our results.

What we plan to do Differently this year: Lise and I are definitely joining the chorus of "put up Really Sturdy tomato wire fencing/trellising BEFORE you plant -- like hmstyl, last year, as our tomatos grew, and grew, so did our staking, as one after another set of wood and then metal poles were leaned on by our exuberant vines! We had all heirloom delights, and all were indeterminate, which means "every tip is happy to be a growing, vining tip" -- I'm also determined to be brave about suckering a little bit (more) this year; which means pruning to fewer growing vines, in the theory that there'll be more energy into producing the fruits than all those vines, vines, exuberant vines.

On getting bales in the fall and storing them: brilliant idea; we had some concerns about perhaps needing to move, and didn't ask the pumpkin-sellers after Hallowe'en, from whom we very likely could have hauled several away free.

GuardanGirl, don't fret too much about paying "too much" per bale; I think as to this forum we paid the most per bale last year, and even then worked out and figured it was much less than the costs would be of bringing in soil amendments to our landlady's assiduously-ignored-for-years adobe plot. The soil here, a few feet below sea-level, just a few blocks (and the 101 freeway) in from the SF Bay, is that good gloppy kind of clay-mud folks use for making cob -- so planting above it both works REALLY well, and we'll leave behind us a goodly amount of happily amended soil, as well as enjoying getting to garden in this lovely huge yard.

Ladypcer, welcome to DG and this forum! Gardening makes a splendid metaphor as well as activity for dealing with life and death healing times - the blood orange tree that we got 3+ years ago as a 17-year celebration of Lise's breast cancer surgery and survival, blossomed and bore oranges for us this past season for the first time. Getting in some bales as raised beds you plant right into could be just exactly the right kind of low-impact garden for you in this coming year. Here's to your vibrant health, and to warm and real connections with this growing, struggling, thriving Community.

Kent, I love the T-shirt!

Blessings of the season all around,
Ruth Temple

Ruth!! What a wonderful letter to all of us. And such inspiration!! It sounds like you have it all.

Thank you for such a nice contribution.

Jeanette

OMI!!!
Im so glad to have found this thread. When I have time I'll meanderthru the parts 1-4 to get some answers/inspiration.
I have a couple questions that hopefully havent been expounded upon :

I had considered making portable raised beds this year anyhow, becuase I live where I have very little sun and what sun I have is jealously guarded over by the trees who live no more than 50 feet away at the most. Their roots have invaded every attempt Ive made for beds thus far.
Has anyone had any experience with outwitting greedy oak,poplar and hickory?(Im not asking too much-I havent asked how to keep teh deer at bay also!! LOL)

and - I was wondering when I read about sprouting being a nuisance... could you not "solarize" liek you would a patch of ground with clear plastic to sprout and decay any existing seeds?

Ya'll are FAB!! :D
Nin

I may just have to try this method-