I have 3 of these shelf/greenhouse things. I think I might put them out on my back deck (south facing) and I can unzip/zip when needed. When things are covered like this or like your milk jugs... how do they get watered? Not rain I'd guess. It doesn't seem like anything would need to be covered after initial germination. Nature doesn't shield seedlings...
I think your three shelves would serve as a wonderful mini greenhouse if you covered them with large plastic tarps. Once the seeds have germinated you could remove the tarp and save it for the next year's wsing.
What do you have in the way of covering that you zip or unzip? Sounds like you have a great plan!
Deborah♥
We're so far south, you don't need to cover your frame until things start sprouting and that may be March and April. The whole idea of WSing is to expose seeds to the elements, warm spells and cold spells. Speeds germination of seeds that need to be stratified. Don't sow the seeds until January. Last year our winter was not cold enough to properly do WSing. I had things spouting way too soon. This winter has been cooler so far and we should be good to go in January. It's easy to get carried away and plant too many seeds. I still have some coneflower and butterfly bush seedlings in their original WS containers from last year. Take the plastic cover off your frame and store it out of sunlight. UV rays will cause the plastic to break down. That way it will be still good when you need it.
You can cut vertical slits in the top part of your milk jug and that will allow water and air to get to your seeds. We usually have enough rain during the winter months but you still might need to check you containers. The deeper your soil, the less you will have to water. You're gonna love WSing.
Digs
This message was edited Dec 6, 2006 1:49 PM
Thanks Digs! So I guess early germination isn't the goal? Why does everyone else cover theirs?
Deborah, these things come with a 'tent' like clear plastic cover that zips up the front. It makes it humid and warm in there in a hurry, just like a greenhouse. They don't hold heat outside though like a regular greenhouse because it is just clear plastic.
Ecobioangie,
You do not want the seeds to sprout early unless you have a greenhouse or space under grow lights to grow them out. I cover mine to keep the pesky squirrels from planting oak trees in my pots. Birds also will scratch around and eat you seeds and make a mess. The cover keeps rain from beating down too much on your soil and washing your seeds away, also. Since you live a little farther north than me, your seeds should get the cold treatment they need.
Digs
I just use the gallon water jugs with the tops off. I sow the seeds, close the containers back up, put them outside and forget about them.
Do you think if I sow them and cover them to keep birds out that they will germinate too early?
Sow your seeds in January if you think they will germinate too early. It really depends on what type of seeds your talking about. Don't forget, your seeds won't all germinate at the same time. Or sow some of the seeds, but reserve some 'just in case'.
ecobioangie: If in your "tents" your plants will have to be watered. Out in the open you shouldn't have to worry about that until the weather warms in spring. One other issue might be wind. I don't know how windy it might be in your area. It's always a problem for me. A few days ago my porch swing actually blew off my porch and landed in my neighbor's yard! It's a big heavy composite wood/plastic thing. On the news they said we had 66 mph winds. So a mini greenhouse like yours would be blown right over in my yard. You might have to really anchor it, but, again, it might not be an issue for you.
Karen
ecobioangie,
Overheating is our problem in the winter for WSing. Since we don't have snow cover, our containers have to be shaded and out of direct sun. Your little seeds will cook otherwise. You could put them under your azaleas or other evergreen shrubs. They'll get plenty of light. Just monitor the water if we have a dry spell. Folks up north have to worry about watering more because their precipitation is frozen, not wet. Sometimes our containers become water logged. Never had a problem with damping off, however. Guess the cold temps keep it in check.
Digs
Digs,
People up North DON'T need to worry about watering as much as gardeners in the South, because precipitation comes in different forms, either wet or frozen. If it rains, you won't need to water your containers if you received enough precip and if you received snow or ice, they act like protective blankets. When the sun shines on the snow or ice, they will begin to drip, thus providing moisture for your containers. Plus, if your container's soil is already frozen, then it already has enough moisture in it!
If they become water logged, then you need to poke more drainage holes in the container. It's a very easy fix.
Damping off is never a problem when you wintersow because of the constant fluctuations in temperature, which make your seedlings VERY hardy.
If your problem is overheating, then place your containers in an easterly location where they will only receive the morning sun.
Hope this helps.
I have several of those greehouse shelf thingies, and I use them mainly in March-April for cool growing of things that plant out early. And overwintering some sensitive things like baby roses. EVen in the dead of winter I have top open them up when the temps get above 40 -- the sun is very intense here, and can COOK anything under plastic even in January or February.
Shirley1md,
Thanks for the lesson in northern climates. Hope I didn't offend. I certainly did not mean to. Sometimes it rains for days here in the winter and it's difficult to find a soilless mixture that doesn't contain peat. So the soil stays wet even if you have good drainage. I have to tell you that I don't envy you your winters. January and February are our coldest months and that's all I can stand. By the end of February, I'm so antsy to get out and plant somethiing, I miserable. Wintersowing helps me get through those dreary months.
Digs
Digs,
No need to apologize, you didn't offend anyone. We're all learning together. Each gardening zone comes with its own unique challenges. Some get a lot of heat, some a lot cold, some a lot of precip and others get very little. We just have to adjust our wintersowing to what works best in our micro-climate.
If you get a lot of rain during the Winter months, you obviously will need good draining containers. Have you tried adding perlite or vermiculite to your soil to keep it from getting to compacted? Do you think this would help or not?
Yes, January & February can be very cold months, but thank goodness for wintersowing, which keeps us all sane!
OMG, I spit my Coke all over my keyboard... keeps us all SANE??? ROTFLMAO!
Suzy
yeah, I wondered about that too...
Well, how about saner (sp?) than we would be if it were NOT for wintersowing our seeds? So sorry to hear about your keyboard...a very sticky situation! :~)
Ya'll just keep me in stitches LOL
Well it doesn't sound like I need to worry about a cover at all then! The shelves might be useful to keep things from taking over too much space, but I might be fine just sitting the containers on the ground. Oh well, no matter what you do, everyone's got their own chili receipe! lol
You won't believe this, but I still don't understand something: If you use 1 gal milk jugs for your wsing, do you put the cap back on after sowing? If so, for how long, i.e. do you take it off, say in March or when it gets above 40? So - if the cap is on, I can understand why you would cut slits in the "shoulder" of the jug, i.e. for natural watering (rain/snow).
But if you don't put the cap back on, i.e. the jug is open at the top, why have ths slits?
I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere, but some of our threads are so long now and sometimes not quite on topic, that I just had to ask you here.
Clementine: As long as you don't use the cap (I don't) additional slits are not necessary until the weather warms in spring. But then with a jug full of baby seedlings I find it hard to just poke a new hole without jostling the whole thing and disturbing the babies. I guess I'm just clumsy. But if a small slit already exists it's quicker and easier to just stick a knife or scissors in the slit and twist .
But these slits are not needed as long as the jugs are not capped.
No need to apologize. We all come here to share ideas.
Karen
Shirley1md,
So glad I didn't lose a DG friend. My apoplogies to anyone else that my post might have offended and they were too nice to confront me. I might try mixing in some perlite in my potting mix this year. Thanks for the advice.
Digs
Digs: Offended? You mean about northerners having to water in winter? I don't see why anyone would feel offended; I didn't. However, I was feeling a little zone envy. Sitting here in sw Ohio, current 21 degree temps out there, dusting of snow this morning. Yep, zone envy for sure.
People on this forum are friendly!
Karen
Digs: Not to worry! Like Karen said, we're all friendly on this forum! Hope the perlite helps the excessive moisture situation.
Clementine: Welcome to the Wintersowing Forum! One thing to remember when wintersowing, 'take your tops off your jugs'! Now, I hope I didn't offend anyone! :~0
Y'all make me feel so relieved! You might not have to be too zone envious over the next few days. We are going to get a taste of what it's like up your way. Had to turn on the heat in the GH and put comforters on the small hoophouse. Gotta keep my brug cuttings happy. It's cold enough to seriously think about WSing now.
Digs
20 degrees in Atlanta this morning. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!! This is February weather! It will be warm again though I bet, so I'd wait!
That's one degree colder than here!
Went out this afternoon to do a little clean up in some containers and the soil in the pots were still frozen at 4 pm. I'm not used to this! Had a scare also this morning when I looked out and saw the comforters had blown off my small hoophouse. Went out in my pjs and a coat to recover it. When I surveyed the damage later, it looked like I might be able to salvage most of what was in it. There was frost in the GH, too. Thank goodness I had covered most of what was in there with row covers and sheets. Today, I put another layer of plastic on both the GH and the hoophouse. Hope this works. If not, I'll be wintersowing seeds in there.
Digs
Digs: Hope your plants in your hoophouse are okay. Covering plants with row covers, sheets and even burlap helps to prevent the tender foliage from getting nipped by frost. Hope you decide to try wintersowing seeds outside (out in the open) too.
Oh, I will be WSing outside. The cold does play havoc with my gardening plans but it's necessary for some seeds to spout. I have seeds from my Chinese fringetree that I hope will germinate this year. Last year, the seeds did nothing but I have seedlings that have come up under the tree so I know WSing should work. I think the stuff in the little hoophouse will be fine. If I lose some stuff, it will just give me a bigger incentive to WS more seeds.
Digs
I have to jump in as a Northerner. I leave the covers off the milk jugs and just set them outside. Here is a photo of mine last winter.
Here is a before the snow photo. They aren't all planted yet on this one.
Wow, zen, love the patio.
Brenda
Angie, I wintersowed thousands of seeds last year and here's my two cents for your chilli recipie in our zone.. They need to be uncovered much much more than covered in our zone. I had mine covered and they were too hot and thank goodness I noticed sooner than later. I did lose some for the drying out. Also, once they do start to germinate and we are going to have a hard freeze, that's when you want to cover... And from experience if you cover them with a plastic sheet as I did, and the freezing plastic touches the plant, it will get zapped.. I had moon vines get zapped by touching the plastic, but they still came back from the roots..... but they were one of the many many unfortunate ones that NEVER got planted into the garden for the sheer number of seeds I overzealously ordered, planted and never got around to putting out.. I still have my wintersown pots from last year and the plants in there to prove it.. if you all are nice to me about it and would like a good laugh, maybe I'll post a picture. Which leads me to the next lesson I've learned.... sow as many seeds in place as you possibly can. I now firmly believe that it would be far easier to thin than to transplant all those plants out. of course you would want to plant proven easy germinators.. Like for me that means my garden will be covered in zinnias and marigolds this upcoming year. yes, the whole entire point of wintersowning the traditional way means that you get faster germination, but our zone is so mild lately and my personal cost/benefit analysis says sow as many in place as you can for a great and easy garden. Good Luck!! :)
Susan
This message was edited Dec 28, 2006 7:12 PM
Thanks Susan! I'm going to do pots on my two shelves and cover them with one of those mosquito net bed canopies. I'll use the plastic if it gets freezing. I think I'll need the net because of all the birds I have, and squirrels...I could wind up with hundreds of oak trees! lol
Oh, and don't worry about the sacrificial seedlings. Been there done that!
We've all had sacrificial seeds and seedlings! That's just 'the nature of the beast'.
Yes, squirrels will 'help' plant lots of oak tree seedlings in containers.....
Zen: Beautiful stone patio and retaining wall! I'm envious!!
Oh yes, the squirrels will be a great help. We have two very large oaks and the squirrels like to make sure the acorns are spread far and wide.
Shirley, Thank you, that is one of the first things we had put in after we moved into the house. Our yard is at a slant and we couldn't even sit in a chair without sliding down so we had that put in. We use a lot.
I missed the the first time Zen.. very nice :)
Susan
