Companion Plants and Seed Gardens

Okay, I just have to start this thread! (I was hoping someone else with information would.) I am trying to plan for Spring and any info would be really helpful to know.

Two things I'd love to discuss on this thread:

1) Plants that repel beetles and other harmful insects. (But not butterflies or cats!) I want to know what other plants I can put in my gardens that will mainly keep the darn beetles from destroying some of my plants! If there is such a companion plant(s).

2) I have heard some of you talking about just "throwing seeds" out in a dirt area and letting what sprouts grow into a "wild" garden. I am constantly trying to "place" my plants in some sort of combination or color scheme. It's kind of stressful doing it the "planned" way. So I really want to try just "tossing seeds to the dirt" and see what nature does. I'm probably just going to do a small bed like this. I need any advice or shared experience that some of you have doing a garden this way.

I have read that Marigolds have been found to repel many insects and nematodes. Also, ornamental onions (Allium). Onions are supposed to discourage ants and Japanese beetles, among other pests.

What is the least toxic insecticidal soap that actually works? Anyone have one they can recommend?

How many of you buy ladybugs? Where do you get yours from?

I was checking out some other forums and came across this forum/thread about making a children's garden. This photo is what I want my backyard to eventually look like in one area/room of my backyard. Sort of like a cottage garden! Would something like this be considered a wild "seeded" garden?
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2633750

This message was edited Nov 22, 2006 10:41 PM

I am one of the ones that just throw my seeds out. I started out planning where I put things. It was stressful for me if I tried NOT to do it like that and purposely make it more natural. Now I have perennials in certain places (doesn't mean I love them there) and the annuals come up where ever they want. :) Next year I am going to have to thin out some of them tho. If I do this tho I'm going to throw out more seeds to insure that things are always growing.

My biggest pest problem has been cucumber beetles. I read that if I planted radishes that they would be attracted to the radish then I could just knock them off that plant into soapy water. I didn't really notice that happening tho. I might throw out more radish seeds again tho, just in case. Tansy is supposed to repel ants but I never saw it doing that. I usually have Marigolds but since I can't see nematodes. ? I've read a lot about garlic too, but have also read that good bugs don't like it's smell either.

I have purchased ladybugs from a local store. I wet everything like they say and released them at night. I had plenty of milkweed aphids for them but the majority of them were gone the next day. The BEST thing I had this year was a native sunflower that just came up. I let 2 of them grow and was thrilled when I found ladybugs, larvae and eggs all over it! They apparently love the sunflower aphids more than the milkweed ones since they used that plant. I would take the larvae from the sunflower and move them to milkweeds. I was thinking the other day that I ought to collect some seeds from some of the ones that are still growing. I want to do that and find some Antelope Horns.

I use Garden Safe brand insecticidal soap. I think that recipe someone gave with soap and vegetable oil is probably as good. I need to try it this year.

Remind me again, are the bugs on edible plants or just other ornamentals?

The beetles are on ornamental plants. My Cigar plant and my Skullcap plant. It's funny though..... When I am collecting seeds in ziplock baggies, I see tiny beetles or bugs in the bags crawling all around. They eventually suffocate in the bag. Then I can safely sort out the seeds. So I think the tiny beetles and bugs are everywhere in my gardens! I guess it comes with the territory! I need to try the soap. I just haven't had the time during the day. Gotta make the time this weekend.

I usually have some sort of tiny little bugs in the flower bags too. I put them in paper sacks first so they are usually still alive and attempt to crawl away. I do have some small black beatle (flea?) that eats holes all thru my Datura's but I don't do anything to stop them. They are only attracted to that one plant so I just cut it back.

Are the bugs always only on these 2 plants? Maybe they are just attracted to these.

I had the same experience with ladybugs. Bought 900 of them and followed all directions and they were gone within a few days. Don't waste your money. Karen

Ya know, Karen ...... You are RIGHT!!! I did that 2 years ago when I first started my garden. But I thought the reason they mostly disappeared was because of something really DUMB that I did.

Being a new gardener, I was romanced by all the cutie stuff out there. Well, I found this ladybug kit. It had ladybug mash and a little house. Thinking this was the way to go, I spent money on this kit and another rather expensive ladybug house. Yeah, I know, S.T.U.P.I.D.!!! I put the nicer LB house in my garden on a short post. Put some mulch inside and smeared some LB mash around inside as well. Then I released them inside the little house. My thinking, ya know, was to help them make a permanent home that they would come back to so that I could keep them around my yard! LOL Really naive of me!

Well, the LB house had an easy removal roof. I kept checking off and on. Many of the ladybugs did stay for several days inside. Hey, why would they leave? They had shelter, food, and a cozy community to hang out in. Well, about the 4th day, I open the roof and much to my horror.... there was a anole with a FAT tummy. He almost looked like he was smiling! He scurried out of the house in a hurry! Not a ladybug left!!!

Of course, quite a few of the Ladybugs did fly away. I would find them on my different plants (which was good), but I think the anoles and lizards got them eventually. Now that I think about that, I think that's about the time I started noticing more and more anoles and lizards making a home in my yard! LOL

Ooooh ...... I see a pattern here. It's a critter eat critter world out there!

So, I agree, buying ladybugs is a bit of a waste. Unless of course, you raise them and just released a 20-30 of them at a time. I seriously could've raised them in a cage with the LB mush. They really liked that stuff! lol But I don't think I need to be raising anything else. The cats keep me busy enough. And maintaining my gardening is also a bit of work the more it grows and expands! (But wouldn't have it any other way!)

I'm telling ya, what you need is one of these sunflowers. It was awesome to go out and just have my own supply of larvae and ladybugs. It's going to be beautiful today and I'm going to want to be outside so I think while my husband watches football that I will go on hunt for some seeds. :)

I'm going to try to start attracting birds back to my yard to see if they will eat some of my spiders. I normally only get sparrows and have never seen them bother a cat or a butterfly, but I have seen them dive bomb grasshoppers!

I've got a library book (that I practically own since I always have it) and I will look thru it for ideas. It's Butterfly Gardening for the South. It has some great info about plant nectar and how some produce more at certain times of day. It's so interesting. (I've been wanting to start a thread about that too)

I'd love a few sunflower seeds if you can get them Konkreteblond. Karen

Paige - So let me understand this ..... If you have sunflowers, the birds will come for the seed? And while they are in your yard looking for more food, they will eat the bugs?

I just happen to have an African Sunflower in my yard. It is actually blooming right now. The poor plant is root-bound in a pot. I got it as a cutting last Spring and it is quite large now. I love it! I haven't planted it in the yard yet because it is going in a new bed I hope to have ready in the Spring. But it is blooming, so that should mean seeds unless the birds get them first. Though probably not, because it is right next to my screened porch.

Here's a photo of it with blooms. Please ignore the dead pentas. They are not all dead, as it is coming back at the base of the plant! lol (I have a very very bad habit of overwatering some of my plants. Habit from living in Florida during the scorching summers.) Most of my plant casualities are from over-watering..... not drought! (sigh)

Sorry Becky, not exactly in that order but sort of. I was thinking that I need to put my bird feeders back up again. I did have these sunflowers for months. They got huge and did attract birds, but not for the seeds. I think the birds were actually eating (or trying to) my Bordered Patch caterpillars and/or ladybugs. When I would see them in the flower I would open the door to scare them off. I will have a ton of them come up in the spring but have seen some plants around town and thought about stopping and collecting seeds. I didn't get out today (sat and ate all day!) but will do it in the next few.

Paige - So the sunflowers attract the ladybugs? If so, I didn't know that! I'm really curious now.

Yes, they do. (did you skim my post? :P) You've motivated me to go thru pics so tomorrow I'll start a thread about my sunflowers. I told myself I had to go to bed before midnight tonight tho.

Paige and any others that have done "seed" gardens - I need to know more. All of my gardens were done with actual plants (whether grown from seed or purchased). I need to know how to do this. Do you just prepare some area of ground and then just throw seeds out there? Or do you plant the seeds with more design and care? And what is the best soil preparation for such a garden?

The closest I have come to seed gardening is my herb garden which has been blooming and throwing off seeds all over the herb bed. I don't have mulch down in the herb garden. The Cinnamon Basil (especially) is reseeding itself all over the herb garden. It smells so delicious out there when it is windy or rainy or even sunny! lol But I can see that I may have to start pulling some of the seedlings up if it gets too invasive in my herb bed. I have sweet basil, too, but it is not reseeding itself quite as much as the cinnamon. (Which grows like gang-busters!)

I think the reason I have so many new plants and basil shoots is because I don't have mulch down. I mulch most beds because it gets soooo hot in the summer here. Helps to keep moisture in the ground and around my plants. Apparently, it also keeps seedlings from starting!

Like I've said before ...... I'm new to gardening and I have LOTS to learn. Any insight or info would be very much appreciated! Ya'll are great and I can't tell you how much I have learned from everyone! I'm really glad that I found this forum and DG! Thank you to everyone! :-)

I've tried starting things from seed indoors in the "winter" here but have always ended up being very frustrated. If things are visually unorganized or messy to me it just overwhelms my brain. (how in the world do I live with a "cottage" garden? LOL)
This is what seed trays, dirt, and the indoor green house do to me.

I don't have the perfect growing lights and can't spend the money so my seedlings would end up leggy. Then there's the mold or the under/over watering.

SO rather than feeling like a failure again I decided to try growing things just the way nature does outside. I didn't prepare anything in my beds. I just took packages of seeds I wanted to grow and tossed them out all over! Talk about out-of-my-box. lol Looking back at what I threw out, not a whole lot of it came up but that is because some seeds are going to require different situations. Some require light and constant moisture, which doesn't happen here.

I threw out 2 packets of cornflowers and got 2, so I'll research them more this year. I let the flowers dry on both plants so hopefully they reseeded, plus I collected a lot.

I threw out Cleome seeds but not one came up, nor did any from the seeds from the plants I already had. ? My mother had some come back from seed just across town.

I threw out Gloriosa Daisies and got 2 beautiful plants that probably reseeded more than enough. I loved these!!

I threw out poppies and had a nice patch of them. I threw out several other things and had a few of them too.

I'm late throwing my seeds out this year but if I had done it earlier they would have already started coming up. I've got Larkspur (oh yes, threw some of those out and every single one germinated and were beautiful!) seedlings coming up now. My mom has a spot about 3x3 that is totally covered in seedlings now.

We are expecting a good freeze this week so I'm going to go put out compost and mulch, throw out some seeds, and water. Maybe not in that order.

In the spring my mulch is usually breaking down to some bare dirt (because I have always used a thick compost for mulch...hate big chunks). I don't want to remulch and cover any seeds so I throw out a very fine compost until things start coming up really good, then I might put out some mulch. I definitely mulch when the summer is coming.

I'm not sure this gave you any advice but hopefully it will help. Basically, just go throw out some seeds! :)

Thank you, Paige! I had NO idea how to do a flower bed from seed.

I think you are right about trying to start plants indoors from seed in the winter. I am finding that to be frustrating too. I'm going to have to figure out if I should wait until late winter, early spring to try a flower bed from seed. I'm worried that rain might wash it all away. (We do get some rain during the winter and my yard is sloped. Which is a nightmare for erosion.)

I SO want to try doing a flower bed from seeds. Hmmmm ..... maybe I should try it in my front garden. It stays relatively warm and has good drainage year round. Hmmmm...... I have salvia seedlings coming up constantly, so it must be a good spot for seedlings to sprout. I might just have to think about that! My only problem with the front garden is that it is already FULL. It looks gorgeous right now! Hmmmm ..... perhaps I can move some of the pot plants to the backyard. That would give me more garden space! lol Can ya picture my brain shifting into overdrive! lol

Paige, I think I have the same dilemma that you "had" about organization and expectations. I am very organized and neat. I want things in their proper place. I expect things to grow and do well. I need to let ALL of that GO and just accept that I am dealing with NATURE. Throw caution (rather seeds) to the wind. Toss the seeds out that I traded and bought and then just wait to see what happens.

Another question. Once the seedlings start growing, do you separate and re-plant them or do you just let them grow where they are? If you separate them, how big do you let them get before you dig them up and replant them? This is where some research comes in handy to know about the plants. I need to find out their height and spread and what water conditions and light they prefer. I know most of this from the plants I currently have. But all the new seeds I've recently received, I know little about. I just love googling for info! (What did gardeners do before internet access?)

I hope you don't mind humoring me while I pick your brain and others too who don't mind telling me what they do. Thanks!

This message was edited Nov 26, 2006 1:02 PM

I get frustrated with seed started indoors too, maybe it would be easier with a gh. In the spring I get the seed bug because it's so much cheaper. I had luck with Balsam, Amaranthus, Cosmos, Cleome, Tithonia, Celosia....all I did were annuals. The Balsams did the best and are still reseeding and blooming in the garden....you have to try those.

In the fall I sow Sweet Alyssum, Larkspur, Delphiniums, Clarkia, Sweet Peas, and Poppies. I just toss them in the bed. I won't renew the mulch until it starts getting hot and the rains slow down. I've found if I mulch too early, things start rotting.

A lot of it is trial and error....remembering to keep them watered because their roots are so shallow and being patient because the area is bare for awhile, which drives me crazy.

I think in the spring I'm going to try those rock wool seedling pots, I have a lot of damping off with soil. There's a grow light in the garage which helps some with the legginess, but as soon as they have their second pair of leaves they go outside, in the pots, to start hardening off.

Oh yeah ..... one last question that is burning in my brain .....

Do you weed after planting a seed garden. I honestly have NO idea what are weeds and what are plants to keep! I have heard a rule of thumb is if it comes up easily it is a keeper. If it is tougher to pull out, it's a weed. Any truth to that?

Do I need to let the weeding issue go too? LOL I just don't want the weeds strangling my keeper plants. Any insight would be great to hear!

fly_girl - Love the Sweet Alyssum! I have some in pots just sitting for over a month. They are doing beautifully. I guess I need to get those babies in the ground ASAP! LOL

I didn't know what Balsam was, so goggled for info. Does it go by the common name of Impatiens? If so, they grow almost wild here. I don't have any in my yard because they are so common in my area .... that yes! I pulled them out! (gasp) :-(

Funny, how some plants we just ignore because we see them all the time, that we almost consider them weeds! lol I guess I need to rethink what grows well here in my area. Chances are it is a host or nectar plant for our flying beauties! I'm learning.

You pulled them? As long as mine were watered and didn't dry out they bloomed like crazy.

Poppies start easy when just thrown in the bed, don't cover, they need light to germinate.

fly girl,

We have two big stands of Sweet Allysum (that is the white kind, right?). One is between the roses in the backyard and one is around the miniature roses in the front. They are about four feet by three feet around and they bloom all year around except sometimes they go dormant for a couple of months during summer.

Beckygardener,

For the last two years, I have planted garlic next to the roses and the fennel to keep away the aphids. It works well. We can grow garlic almost all year around here.

Thanks,
Chuck

Chuck - Where is a good place to purchase garlic seeds? (Or are they bulbs or tubers?) I never see them for sale any where locally.

Chuck, that sounds so pretty, don't you just love the smell? Mine will die out about June when it start getting hot.

I may have to try fennel and garlic around my butterfly weed.

Dear Becky,

Actually I planted just regular garlic from the supermarket the last year. You just take off the paper thin covering and pull the cloves apart. It is easier if you purchase the hard neck variety. It doesn't really matter which way you plant it because it comes up just the same. This year I went to a vegetarian store and bought healthy and strong garlic. It came up after about four days and two weeks later now it is already six inches tall.

Dear fly_girl,

Yes, I love the smell. I originally planted the Alyssum because it was my deceased mother's favorite plant. But I keep it around because it is easy to grow and it is pretty.

Thanks,

Chuck

Becky, NOOOO pulling anything up in the spring! Step away from the seedling! My husband even got in trouble last year for pulling some stuff up that he thought was "out of bounds" but I knew what it was. I have to remind my dad each year too STOP PULLING THINGS UP!

Fly, be careful planting garlic around your milkweed. I've read that it repels good bugs too, which could be the ladybugs. You might try it in one area first.

I wonder if chives would do anything? I have chives all over here and there in my garden. I just transplanted some and they sure do smell strong.

Chuck, what a great way to remember your mom :)


I wonder if it would make it difficult for the Monarchs to find......good idea Paige...I'll try it in a small area first.

I don't pull anything until I know what it is or isn't when I have seedlings.

ROTFLMBO, Paige! I just KNEW someone was going to say that to me! LOL

I promise that I am going to try "stepping away from the seedlings" this Spring when things start sprouting. LOL And I will also have to warn my dh. I have some rainlily seedlings that I transplanted a month ago. It looks like stray bahia grass blades. Ya'll have NO IDEA how I have to remind myself every single time I am out in that part of my garden NOT TO PULL THEM UP as weeds. It's killing me!!! I need to go to garden perfectionist anonymous. Seriously. I've got issues, folks! ROTFL!

Ya'll are killing me with the garlic, chives, etc. I sure hope that the butterflies don't find their host and nectar plants by smell. I would have never, ever thought of just peeling and burying garlic cloves. Apparently, I've been sheltered all my life! I thought if you didn't already have it in your yard, you go to a nursery and buy a plant! LOL LOL LOL I wonder if marigolds would be the better choice for a companion plant? Anyone know just how good they repell insects?

I just got back from HD. I had to actually buy 3 more milkweed plants. My potted ones were looking very sad. So I pulled the cats off them and set the milkweed outside. Well, wouldn't ya know it ..... they just needed water. They were bone dry and wilting! Sheesh! I've got too much on my plate right now and I think I need to STEP AWAY FROM THE GARDEN.

Anyway, the cats are sure happy to have healthy and juicy milkweed. I have about 25 Monarch cats. After the really cold temps last week, I found them all over my garden. Seems the wasps slow down in cold weather. So the cats were able to get a little bigger. They can sure eat their way through a milkweed patch though.

This message was edited Nov 26, 2006 7:02 PM

Becky, I would not plant garlic around the asclepias just to be safe. I don't know about the effects on butterflies but I do know that I have had no cats on my fennel this year (of course, it is only the first year that I have had the fennel)...LOL. I plan on trying marigolds also this spring and see how they keep the aphids off.

Thanks,

Chuck

I'm with you on that idea, Chuck! I hope I can remember all these great ideas in 4 months when it's Spring. I'm going to have to re-read all these threads! lol

Great thread Becky!

I found many sites while doing some research about Sunflowers. Along with tons of other plants thet attract and host benificial bugs that maintain an organic garden space, (such as aphid eaters). All you have to do is type "plants that attract beneficial insects" into your search engine. It will come up with a lot of sites, steer toward the ones that cater to birds and butterflies, of course.



This message was edited Nov 27, 2006 6:10 PM

Thanks, Deb. I will do just that googling!

Ginger, Chuck.. That's one I want to try. I'm sure my Ben will be planting some Garlic in a section in Spring, he loves to grow things, but he really loves Garlic! It will be a good way away from my Milkweed though. ...but Ginger, humm... I really want to plant that one in a special place when/if I get some.


*Alyssum is one of my favorite little border flowers, the scent is awesome...and it too is a benificial plant for keeping protective insects in the yarden.

This message was edited Nov 27, 2006 6:35 PM

The bad thing about marigolds around here is that they are such a spider mite magnet. I would be afraid they would attract more, I have enough problems with those pests on my mw. Unless it acted like a trap crop and they stayed on it, that's probably unlikely.

Coriander is supposed to repel spider mites.
4'oclocks, Larkspur and white Geraniums act as a trap for Jap beetles, it poisons them.
Parsley, Dill and Caraway attract parasitic wasps and hoverflies.
Catnip, Sage and Hyssop deters flea beetles, ants, aphids.
Savory repels Mex bean beetle and black aphids.

I think if we're raising bfs we have to be careful not to attract more of their predators, like the parasitic wasps.

Your so right Fly! That's the very careful thought it takes to make it a success!

I started looking at more websites on companion planting and am amazed at how many plants attract those %^*# parasitic wasps, I didn't realize. I didn't find one plant that repels them. That's great for the veggie gardener but not for us bf farmers.

You know that old saying...the best pest repellant is your own shadow? Maybe I'll make a scarecrow that looks like me, with moving arms....do you think that would work? lol

For some unknown reason I planted chives my first year. ? I was really excited when they bloomed because they are so cute! They reseed too so I still have them. I couldn't say if they repelled anything or not tho because I don't have them strategically placed.

I have had marigolds every year and they will get spider mites so I have to remember to mist them (or hose them down) when it's dry and hot. What are they supposed to repel? It certainly isn't milkweed aphids. I don't think there is anything that can really get rid of these aphids since they are specifically attracted to these plants. What I'm going to experiment with next year is putting something at the base of the plants, like doublesided tape or Vaseline, and see if they can't crawl up it. ?

Nothing repels fire ants! I have all kinds of different ants and several things that were always said to repel them but the ants didn't know.

I have tons of green lacewings and hoverflies and don't really want to repel those. I don't know if I even have parasitic wasps. I've never seen any, but I think they are very, very small.

Flyg, what did it say attracted them? A scarecrow with moving arms would be you doing the "fire ant dance"!

Hmmmm .... I wonder if the vaseline idea would work? That's an interesting idea Paige. How exactly do the aphids get on the plants anyway? Are they laid as eggs there by a flying momma aphids? I have often wondered that.

Lol...fire ant dance, I could work that in the routine.

Marigolds keep the soil free of nematodes and repel whitefly, thrips, and tomato hornworm.

The mint family resists aphids, but it's so invasive.

Basil can slow the growth of mildweed bugs.....I want to try that one.

Sunflowers have growth suppressors in them and can stunt the growth of plants around them.

Yarrow attracts ladybugs.

Becky, I think aphids can grow wings and fly to other plants to lay eggs.