Need Help on Dying Foxtails

Hi…..I am a newbie to palms, but this last summer I think I went a little overboard. I bought a real nice 9’ foxtail and then proceeded to send off for 25 of these at 36” high in growth. They came to me bare rooted and I planted them into Supersoil Palm mix that I added more peralite to make it a faster draining soil. I planted them into 7 and 15 gallon pots which I know now from reading here on the forums I would have been better off in a 3 or 5 gallon. Anyway my problem is this….the bottom leaves started to turn brown then die and then it would then move to the next higher leaf and does the same thing. On a few now it has reached the spear……What can I do to save these……Any ideas would help……I will try to put a few pictures up
Thanks
Curt

Here is another Picture to help

And this is how I have them protected at this time from full sun.

You sure built a nice place for them! When the leaves turn brown like that, and continue on upwards, its usually either that they got burnt with fert, or there is a fungus in the soil. Have you fed them since you transplanted them? Have you looked at the roots of one of them? If not, I would look at the roots of the worst of them and see how they look-if they look black/soft. How often do you water them?

What are the wires going across the pot for? Just curious.

The wires were there to help stablize the trunk from leaning, I did not want to push sticks into the soil and maybe hiting the roots. The wires are not touching the trunks now. I have not used any fert on them yet. I will pull one of the palms on Sat to see what it looks like and report back. Ten have been planted for 3 weeks another 10 for 2 weeks and five for one week.

From what I have heard when the higher leaves start dying off before the bottom older leaves then it is probably a fungus. If it is the bottom leaves dying off rapidly it could be lack of water or some sort of root disturbance.

The only way your foxtails are going to do well in the dry air that you have out there, is to mist them every day that it dose'nt rain, and then use Fungenex, now called Rosepride, spray it on a quarter teaspoon per gallon every other day or so to prevent fungus, you palms are in to arid conditions,you could not have picked a worse palm
even Coconut is not so much trouble, I've got 42 of them just over 4 tears old from seed

Well, if you were to do it again, I would not use perlite next time... in fact, I wouldn't use supersoil, either... maybe just good old potting soil would be best way to go- something that retains water well, but still well draining- and water them WELL, especially if it's warm out. And for sure use smaller pots (when getting palms bare rooted, always use the smallest pots you can get away with until you get some really healthy root growth and leave in those pots until the roots are almost totally root bound- THEN move to larger pots). Otherwise the likely hood for dessicated roots, root rot and root damage are way too high. I learned this lessen from getting foxtails from Hawaii... only the ones I crammed into a 1 gal pot managed to survive, and not many of those did (this is one of the tougher palms to get to survive from being barerooted in my experience, and I have had a lot of species sent from Hawaii that way- most do well, but foxtails are super touchy). I find it's definitely worth the money to buy them already growing here in California. Unless you actually have a nice, super humid greenhouse.. then they seem to be pretty easy to establish. As edric said, keep them moist!!

radman-how much have you been watering them up to now?

Well I took a look at one of the plants roots and found that I had left the moss around the roots when planting this second batch of foxtails. I had also used sand and a little perlite with this batch. When I dumped the mix from the pot into my wheel barrel I found the soil to be really wet. I had been watering every third day the first week and then backed off to once a week. So this morning I redid all of those plants in that batch and found the same thing. Last week I had repotted the first batch with the added perlite and they seem to be holding there own now. The third batch that I planted last weekend are doing great. I had used the new mix and had misted the roots and leaves before adding into the pot. One question though. With winter here should I put a cover over my shade cloth on the rainy days to keep from having to much water……
Wish me luck on the replanting…..
Thanks
Curt

Here's a picture of my other palms including the larger Foxtail

And lastly the spa and deck with Tiki Bar that got me started last June with palm trees......and if your wondering why the palms are all containerized, I rent and don't own the house. I am working at buying it though.

Rain water will be good for them... but the cold will be tough on them.

Thanks for everyones help!!!!
Curt

You didn't know? Once you've killed several foxtails you are not a palm newbie anymore. Think of it as a right of passage. I've killed 4 foxtails. 1 robilini, 1 kentia (the shame of it), and 2 cocos. Nothing will make you better grower faster than dragging dead palms to the curb for the green-waste guy to haul off.

HAh! I think i have well over 200 palms under my death belt. Fortunately that number is still smaller than the number of survivors... whew!

It makes me feel better to hear Osideterry and Palmbob tell us how many palms they have"killed". I love palms and aloes and have killed my share of palms, (doing better with the aloes though). Many times I have told myself I will never buy another palm, then I see one I just have to have even if it may be marginal for my area. Currently I have about 40 different species of palms and if you include the seedlings in the greenhouse over 100 palms. But like you, have lost my share.

I feel a little better now knowing others have gone through this before. The good news is, the seller felt so bad for me that there going to send me 20 more at no cost other than shipping. I did go out and buy 20 smaller containers to plant them in, and will use different soil. What would you guys recommend in this area...I saw this mix on Jungle Music.

10% amended topsoil (has about 1/3 high quality topsoil and 2/3 humus)
15% pumice #2
15% 0 - 1/8 inch pine bark
15% nitrolized redwood shavings
20% perlite #2
10% coarse washed sand, #12
15% coarse peat moss
What do think.......
Thanks Curt

That will work... so will 'potting soil'. Might ask the seller what soil they are using.

Since I'm not into mixing my own soil (or fertilizer either!) I've just been buying bags of "Palm and Cactus Soil". The bag doesn't even specify whether it's for potting or in the ground, although for planting I cut it 50/50 with the existing soil.

I actually like that stuff... works for me, at least for potting palms. For in the ground plants, it has been shown it's really best to just use the soil that's in the ground... amending it with other stuff actually causes palms to set back and sulk for up to 2-3 years. Don't recommend that!

I used to run the garden center at the Lowes here in San Marcos. I told all of my customers that were buying palms to use cactus mix. Now the same manufactuer relabled the bag to " Palm & Cactus Mix" Same exact stuff. I recomend adding in at a 20% ratio a Kellog's product called Patio Plus. It helps retain a bit more moisture but still provides great drainage. It also adds alot of different organic stuff like bat guano, worm castings, kelp and more! All great organics for palms.

This message was edited Nov 14, 2006 1:40 PM

I too have killed many palms. I had great early success with robellinis, a queen and adonidias. Therefore I felt palms were easy and I must be a natural at growing them. :) Since then I have killed my fair share. Actually I believe I have killed most with kindness. The more expensive, the more care. Richer soil, lots of water, untangling roots before planting. These are some of my secrets to killing a palm. Another trick to making a palm look bad is copper sulfate. It'll kill a fungus, but when applied to fronds and the crown it will cause browning and make the fronds look ratty. Or so I've read at least. Since switching to Mancozeb I've not seen the same effects, so I tend to believe it.

As for planting in the ground I can say I've had the best luck establishing new palms by not amending the soil. Three years ago I used to add lots of organic peat to enrich our sandy soil. Since then I've heard some experts say that wasn't necessary and all palms planted in the last year and a half were planted without amending the soil. If anything I may add a little organic peat to the top to hold in moisture. My results thus far have been as good if not better at establishing new palms.

mmmmm. worm castings. (gargling noise. imagine Homer Simpson's head slumping backwards)

Don't amend the soil, huh? That explains a few palms. It also makes me feel a bit better about the ones I was too lazy to go buy another bag for. They might have a better chance than I thought. Now let's dismiss another piece of sage advice: Dig a whole AT LEAST TWICE as wide as the pot. I'll admit to cheating on that one for 15 gallon palms. I'm closer to 1.5 times as wide as the pot.

This message was edited Nov 14, 2006 4:59 PM

Actually, at least with the hardy species here in So Cal, again, recent research has shown that the narrower the hole, the better, particularly if your palm is rootbound... so dig a hole just barely wide enough for the palm to fill it, and that is what has worked out best... may not seem right, but the evidence shows otherwise.

With the narrow hole, water will get to the roots easier.

Also- don't plant them too deeply.
Palms breathe through their feet :)

Hi radman.
Just going through some old posts.
Are you sure they are FOX tails???
PICS 1&2 look like Fish tails to newbie me.
The tall one in big black pot is a fox tail.
I will include a PIC. in a few hours to show you my Fish tail.
As I say I`m only a newbie.

Ok took some PICS.
This is my Fish tail.

And this is my 3 year old Fox tail.
It has long thin leaves.

I have two Foxtails, and one has wider, fishtail-like leaflets, while the other has narrow bitten-off leaflets. The BIG difference is that Fishtails are bipinnate (like a fern), where Foxtails are pinnate like all other palms. Fishtail leaves are also on a flat plane, while Foxtails are plumose like a Queen or Royal palm.

Well that cleared that up.
Thank you osideterry.
Just goes to show we are never to young to learn.
I will go to a nursery today and see what our very young trees look like.
Its not unusual for our nurseries to have very large palms for sale.
The trunks also seem much thicker here.
Just an observation.

Ginger: I realized not long ago that my favorite palms are all from Australia or closeby. I have several Bangalows, 1 Alexander (Piccabeen?), 1 Ribbon Fan, 3 Kentias. I'm going see if I can't keep a Caryota Rumphiana alive this spring, as I can get a good deal on a 15 gallon one from a local grower. If it's from Australia or Norfolk Island, I'm interested. We must share similar climates, although your north coast is probably much more tropical than San Diego. I also have a thing for good Australian wines. Looks like I need to plan a trip.

Hi osideterry,
Thank you for your reply.
Yes we do have a lot of native Palms. [endemic to QLD.]
Today I had planned to post a PIC of the,Ribbon Fan.
Now isnt that a coincidence.
It is early morning here so I will still post that Pic later on.
Kentias, another day.

The tree that you say is three years old, is more like ten years old, for the first four or five years they
do not have full fronds, but develope them gradually.

Just to update. Got the 20 new foxtails from the grower and planted them in smaller pots one week ago. They seem to be doing fine. The others I placed in full sunlight as I needed the room under the shade for the newcomers. And they seem to be holding there own. On Wed the day before Thanksgiving I went into the HD to get building supplies, and of course I had to check out the new arrives in the palm section. They had a Double foxtail about 10 ft for 199.00..........so I was walking down the isle and came to an endcap with 30 new foxtails about 5-6 ft high for 11.97 huh that can't be right...I looked at the sku they were using and they used there genric sku for assorted 10" tropical foilage.......well I had to jump on that and I picked up 10 of them and gave two to a friend of mine for a birthday present. I will put up a few pic's

Here is the placment of the other foxtails

Here are the 11.97 specials from HD

Radman, been wanting a foxtail for a special price. (Did you get them at the place on Lincoln near V.view?)

I got them at the Lakewood store.....Del amo and candlewood........There all gone now. The DH told me that they got them on special from a different vender than they use for there palms. I am going to the Cypress store this morning and I look to see if they got any. If not I'll sell you one of the ones I got. I live close to the Cypress HD