historic iris, heirloom iris

I notice that the ARS refers to "historic iris" in some of its links. What does this mean? iris registered or grown in gardens before 1950? pre-1950 Dykes Medal winners? Old House/cemetery iris? Any officionados out there?

Technically, an historic iris is defined as any iris introduced more than 30 yrs ago.

Perhaps you will find this site interesting. I'm a new member of HIPS and loving everything about it.


http://www.hips-roots.com/visitors/v-main.html

Grannymarsh: Thanks for the link. I especially enjoyed looking at Mike Unser's photos.
I have had probably an unusual relationship with old iris. As an archeologist I have walked over abandoned homesites all over the south east. Often those strappy little leaves and maybe a few brick fragments are the only remnant of lives that were lived on a piece of land. In Loundes County Alabama we surveyed four pre-civil war plantations that were situated on a section of land facing the Alabama River. The local legend was that there were slave cemeteries shared by two plantations on each side of the property. Where were they? Someone said you will never find them, because the graves of slaves were never marked. On the next visit there was no doubt--acres and acres of white iris placed to commemorate the African lives of men and women who worked and died on those plantations.
You must be digging in for the winter up there in Marquette. I went to school in Houghton, at Michigan Technological University. I left Michigan in 1958.

Gloria, that is a truly nice story and I thank you for sharing it. They weren't forgotten after all. Many local legends seem to have a thread of truth in them.

Marquette itself is still in Autumn mode. The temp was about 50d today and the black flies were biting. West of here, in the highlands and in the Kewenaw, they have had some storms already, getting dumped on with up to 2 feet of snow. Tech has a decent hockey team, so of course they are rivals of Northern MI U.

Have you had an opportunity to save some of those white Iris? It would be interesting to I.D. them.

Grannymarsh: The Loundes County Plantations were sold to General Electric so I doubt if any of the historic plants are still there. There was also a plantation home that we knew had been burned. We were able to locate it from the daffodils that had been planted around it. Thats the sad thing about archeology. We are the last one's to see what is left of so many of these elegant old homes and their grounds. When we finish, they are 'gone with the wind' -- turned into industrial plants, highways, reservoirs, or some other modernization. I think I do have a few of those white iris. I'll try to work on my photographic skills so I am ready when they bloom.

White iris that lasted? Probably Orris Root/ I. Florentina. Beautiful and ancient & tough.

I looked at some photos of Florentina on Mike Unser's website. I thought that might be it. Iris I have seen on historic archeological sites in Alabama, also Tennessee and Mississippi are almost always white. There is a deep purple that is sometimes still blooming at more recent (say 1940s) sites. I once found the purple one blooming away with and old pink rose at an old farmsite in Franklin Co. Alabama. The buildings had long since been bull dozed away.

The white iris I Albicans, which originated probably around Turkey was traditionally placed on graves. It is said that Crusaders actually carried them along to battle and placed them on the graves of their fallen comrades. There are fields and fields of these iris stretching from the Middle East, along North Africa all the way to Spain as a present day reminder of the Crusaders journey. No one knows the significance of why Albicans were a gravesite plant, but they came with Europeans to the New World, where they were again used to adorn gravesites particularly in the South. So your discovery has a bit of history behind it.
Are they really Albicans or, as a reader suggested, Florentina? Florentina has a very different history, and I am not discounting that possibility, but they are not the traditional gravesite iris. When you get some photographs, both Florentina and Albicans are on the HIPS website, along with some pointers as to how to differentiate the two.
Hope you will post some here for us to see as well.
Laetitia

What interesting information!

Double Ditto what caganimalover said. !!!! Laetitia, you know the coolest stuff.

What's the story/history of Floretina?

A quick search gave me this:

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/419112/

Florentina /Orris root dates from the 1500s. It was used for medicinal purposes by medival midwives and doctors. Immigrants to America brought roots from Europe and planted them near their homes. The American Indians used it as a gastric cure.

Quote from 1898 Doctor's book:
"Iris is specifically indicated in soft glandular enlargements. It is one of the very few reliable drugs used for the cure of goitre, or enlarged thyroid. Indeed, for this condition it is our most direct and effectual remedy, whether the enlargement be constant, or whether it be simply a fullness due to menstrual irregularities. This use was early pointed out by Prof. King. Further, it has a marked influence for good on the ovarian and uterine disturbances giving rise to this fullness. In goitre, apply a cotton cloth saturated with specific iris, and give internally a teaspoonful, 3 times a day, of a mixture of specific iris, flss; aqua, fliv. Basedow's disease—exophthalmic goitre—in the early stage, has been cured by iris; Addison's disease of the suprarenal capsules has been greatly improved, though not cured by it. In chronic affections of the pancreas, with a sodden, leaden-colored tongue, and in chronic splenic disease, when the skin is blanched—as in leucocythemia—this drug is indicated. Chronic renal diseases, ascites, anasarca, hydrothorax, and hydropericardium, have yielded to its curative powers. In dropsy, it is administered in cathartic doses. It is seldom used at present as a cathartic, but when so used its harsh effects may be somewhat overcome by combining it with ginger, piperin, or camphor.

As a remedy for uterine hypertrophy, enlarged ovaries, ulcerated os and cervix uteri, uterine leucorrhoea, and dysmenorrhoea: Rx Specific iris, gtt. x to xx; aqua, fliv. Mix, Dose, 1 teaspoonful every hour in acute troubles, and 4 times a day in chronic affections. It is all the more strongly indicated in these conditions, if there be impaired general health, with mental depression, and when the skin presents abnormal pigmentation.

This drug has been successfully used in chronic rheumatism, syphilitic rheumatism, gonorrhoea and spermatorrhoea."

Wanda: There have been a couple of PhD theses on the plants used in traditional black culture in the south. One could extrapolate that they were also used by african slaves. I don't know if orris root was one of them, but it would be worth checking out. Of course, if the plants were used by Europeans, African slaves had access to them. They were the ones who planted and cared for them. Thanks for the info. The cemeteries in Loundes County Al date to about 1820-1830.

I'm noting references to Orris root in old stomach cures from the 1600s. It looks likes the American Indians used them too. My iris come from a broken down sod house out in Oregon from DGer Mary. Another medicinal plant carried by western pioneers is the yucca. You find them by old house sites in the woods & prairie.

re Yucca: And in my front yard. The city loves to whack them back just before they bloom. They have very sharp needles. The city crews will need medicine after they finish whacking my yuccas. Nothing is safe. Its true they are markers of old house sites. These stately plants are often the first visible signal of the remains of some one's home from the past on archeological sites. Here the yuccas are blooming now--ivory bells on 6 ft spikes.

My yucca bloom in July. I love them because they are the only hint of green I see all winter in my Iowa gardens.

gloria125--Just found your thread. What a shame about the damage to your plants. I don't know anything about yuccas, but can you move them to another site out of their reach?

I have been battling the city's destruction of historic plants ever since I came here in 1984. So far I have not found a defense. Asking them nicely, only brings more retaliation. Sorry, very sore point with me.

I'm sorry, too. It's really a shame.

Thanks for your concern.

Gloria:
Sometimes you cannot stop those who want to renovate and bring in 'new' plants or concrete, but many times they will be willing to give you some before destroying them if you offer to give them a new home.
It's also possible, and it has been done in other towns, to move imperiled historic plants to different locations such as a public park, historic memorial or restoration. Some public places are thrilled to have someone approach them and offer to plant an historic period garden.
Does your town have an 'historic commission' whom you might enlist in this cause?
Laetitia

The target of destruction in this case was a 16 acre National Register historic site. I was the curator of this property for nearly 20 tyears. In fact, many historic sites attract destructive forces. I cannot tell you how many people wanted to bring metal detectors onto the property. All archeological sites are under a "no surface disturbance" rule. On one occasion, I found an 1850s tree had been cut--a cedar tree which was part of a grove forming original landscaping on the property. The local mayor wanted, it "for fence posts" the city workers told me. He simply sent in a crew and took it. Your plan might work in other situations. Here certain individuals were determine to destroy the landscaping of this historic site. They pretty much suceeded.

Jerks!!

1gardengram: The family who owned the historic house here has roots in North Carolina. You might recognize some of the connections: Richmond Hill, which is now a bed-and-breakfast at Asheville, N.C. This was the residence of Richmond Pearson, who was ambassador to Persia duriing the 19th century. His sister, lived in the house here. She married a student at her father's law school, --James Hobson, who survived fighting of the Civil War. Richmond Hill, the Law School was operated by her father, Richmond Pearson, who was Chief Justice of the N. C. surpreme court about the time of the Civil War. He trained many (some say most) of the legal minds of North Carolina. Visitors here said he was so charismatic that his neighbors all started naming their eldest sons "Richmond Pearson", so now they are all over the place making geneology almost impossible! The builders of the house here, first lived at Cedar Dell, which still stands in Lenoir County, N.C. (as I remember this is now an orphanage). This gentleman was Isaac Croom, who studied Law in N.C. attended the U. of N.C. at Chapell Hill, and was a state legislator there before moving to Alabama in the late 1830s. Of course, Greensboro, Al. was named for Greensboro, N.C. so many early migrants came from there. There you have it, an amazing historical fabric that joins families in two states. The people here have no idea what a gem they have.

You are right about what a gem. And your knowledge of all that history is another gem to be cherished. I hope all that is in your head is also documented. I have spent time in Greensboro, as my son used to live there, but I was only visiting him and not doing the history thing. I've been to both Asheville and Lenoir County, but again, alas, no time for history. I have often thought about taking some courses in local history, as I understand there are a good many battle sites and other historical sites in this area, and American history is one of my loves. Guess I'd better get on it.

Gloria,
That is a very disturbing story. I agree with Gardengram, JERKS. Sounds like you have political crookedness. (Polititians that push their weight around to serve there own (illegal) means) I would assume that a National Register historic site would be illegal to destroy and if anybody else had done the same thing; they would be in big trouble.

My husband hates my gardening and (what he calls) 'fiddling around' the yard (he jokingly calls me a tree hugger), but he is extremely mindful of history and the years it takes to grow hundred year old trees. We by no means have any trees with as many years as a historical site, but spent a great deal of time and effort to position our foundation and house where the least trees would be fell (special attention was paid to the larger/older trees). Everything we do here with any equipment must be planned out to not damage the larger trees.

gloria125
From a little research about the term orris root, I found that it actually is from several Iris. I had always assumed that it was only from the root of 'florentina' . It is still harvested today mostly for the scent and as a fixative. Here is some information from one source.
Natural Life Magazine - May/June 1998
The Herb Garden
The Joy of Growing and Using Herbs
by Rachel McLeod

" Orris root comes from three closely related irises – Iris germanica, Iris florentina and Iris pallida. Much of the orris root used today is grown in Italy. It takes two to three years for the iris to grow to maturity before the rhizome is harvested. The rhizome should be dug, then peeled and grated or chopped while still fresh and soft. Then it has to be left to dry for at least two years before the scent is at maximum strength.

Iris florentina might be the best choice of the three for the herb garden. It is scented and coloured a whitish mauve, giving what author and gardener Patrick Lima calls a “blurred opalescent” effect, which will be enhanced by placing it in front of a darker background"

My iris florentina has that pale tinge of color. I think I would describe it not as mauve, but a pale white haze with a touch of blue. It has a ghostly, watery look. I bought them from a lady who closed her old herb farm in 1983. She dried and used the root for it's scent. So if the iris at the graves are bright white, I think they are not florentina., but more likely as Sugarbean1 said, iris I Albicans or something else.
Patti

Gloria--your tale about a local mayor stealing what he should have been protecting is disgusting! If it happened to me, I would have told the newspapers and embarrassed him. May not bring the tree back, but make others think twice before they take something irreplaceable. How can people be so crass? For fence posts? Idiot!

I have helped landscape 3 local schools and a couple of churches. Everything would be fine for a couple of years, then I would find holes in the beds. It shocked me how people "helped themselves' to bushes and plants ! Do people not see this as stealing?

When we visited the Des Moines Arboretum, the gardener told us he had to constantly replace numerous hosta and decorative evergreens along the road. People just stopped in the night & dug them up. Whatever happened to "Thou Shalt Not Steal"?

Wanda, I hear ya on this one. What a shame.

My Florentina have delicate pearl grey falls, but I know color can differ with dirt composition. The shape of the bloom is distinctly different from i.pallida or i.germanica.

The theft of the tree is only one of many many incidents. In the end I lost my job, nearly lost my health--developed severe insulin dependent diabetes because of the stress--was hospitalized requiring a blood transfusion--was that ever terrifying with the possibility of dying because of the blood supply. I guess you would call me a daffodil hugger--the owners of the property had planted daffodils over about 3 or 4 acres of this historic site--under a grove of pecan trees. The mayor would send his bush hog in when the property was supposed to be closed. I would find the poor bulbs just turned up and shredded. The bush hog dragged on the ground because of defective springs supposed to hold the blade up. But the worst and most sickening was his use of herbicides on the roses in a Victorian rose garden. When I got there in 1984, American pillar roses were climbing up into the trees--in fact thats how I found the roses by those tree climbers.
But the worst of all, is that historic sites attract these people! So my message to you is please take an interest in your historic sites and your history organizations in your state. My goodness, there is so little left.

Wanda, Patti: I took some iris from that cemetery in Lowndes, County Al. The property has now been turned into an Industrial plant, so I doubt if there are any left there. Ill use your descriptions to see if I can identify the Florentina. It would be good to know, but I didn't think to do the research at the time. It was a sight, though. Acres and acres of white iris marking "unmarked" graves.

Gloria:
I am sorry to hear about the problems with the historic places in your town and your health issues resulting from it. Sounds like your mayor and cronies are just insensitive people who have no consideration for such things.
Don't let it ruin your health. Hopefully there are other places and/or people in your area who do care, and do what they can to protect what can be protected.
That is the problem with 'public' areas.
I do alot of volunteer work at Presby Iris Gardens, and you can only hope that the people who are in charge, and who will be in charge in later years, understand and appreciate history and the iris they have been entrusted with.
Luckily the people who are there are very concerned about history, but there is no guarantee it will always be so, and it only takes one time, one bad group of people who might someday be given the power, to wipe out what others for almost 100 years have done to protect the place.
Laetitia

This was taken on May 20, 2006 of my Iris Florentina. I think Wandaflowers description is perfect "delicate pearl grey falls". It is so sad that it is now a field of concrete. Patti

Is there not some kind of HISTORICAL "higher ups" people, organization, or government office (maybe the same group that protects national parks) that could do anything?

My job was a State job, it was operated by the State Historical Organization. There was a political take over of that agency = an executive director was hired who had already a reputation for damaging preservation in the States of Florida and Louisiana. He has since moved on leaving the agency in a shambles, completely diverted from its mission of preservation. Believe, me I tried every thing that was available to me, but I am still under fire. I am still hoping for legal action, so Id better back off from this topic. Just believe me, historic sites are so vulnerable, to both political misuse, as well as to people who are just plain nuts. Alabama has both. And, hey, thanks for your concern.

Patti: you would have thought they could leave just one little corner for the irises. And, you know, the irises could, if left alone, outlast the concrete!

So much greed in our society nowdays. People just don't think of taking what they want as stealing, for some reason. Their values are warped, and it comes from the top. That's obviously happening in these situations posted above. If the leaders can do it, the "people" just think it's OK for them. The Golden Rule has become "Do unto others before they do unto you." I had an experience of trying to save a whole yard of antique camellia bushes, huge things, that had been planted many years before by the man who was the president of the local camellia society. They drew people from all over when they were in bloom. The church next door bought his property when he died and before any of us knew what was happening, they bulldozed the property and the bushes were gone, even though they knew we wanted to try and save them. I came home from work one day and it was all bare. I could not believe my eyes! So much of that goes on--people just don't care. Instant satisfaction in all aspects of our society. And then there are the crooks and jerks on top of that.

OK, I'm off my soapbox now. Just hit a nerve with me.
Diane

The CHURCH!!! What in the world?!? You would sure think you wouldn't have to worry about a church doing something like that if they KNEW the bushes were special and someone wanted to continue the heritage.!.
Unbelievable. I would have had words with them DIRECTLY. ~~~ Carol

Carol,
I did talk to the people at the church and they swore up and down that they did not get any messages about us wanting to save the bushes and they did seem contrite. The man in charge of their "landscaping" believed in a scorched earth policy. Like I said, so much of that going on nowdays. No regard for the past. "We" just don't have time for that!!
Diane

This is a very interesting thread.I live on Cape Cod born and raised here like my parents and so on, in the last 12 years theres been a huge influx of people with money but no brains moving in. They build these huge houses for two people [we locals refer to them as MacMansions] on less than an acrea of land, complain the roads aren't up to snuff for their luxury cars want them widened and repaved. They moved here because of its beauty,but seem to be changing it into what they moved away from. I get so upset watching the destruction. When ever the towns try to slow things down or try to lesson the destruction, next thing they know some big city lawyers all over them.We locals who have been thru a few hurricanes [were smart enough not to build a house on a sand dune over-looking the ocean] were just waiting for a good hurricane to come in and send them packing along with the ocean reclaiming a few of these MacMansions. I know thats a bad attitude but thats how I feel. Heidi

crazyplanter: sounds like you need some zoning laws. but, I know the zoning board members can be bought off, and all of them are political puppets. the bottom line seems to be, when ignorant people gain control of power, every body loses. Their ignorance is infectious--like AIDS.
So far as I know, the only defense is Counter Revolution. (I went to school in California in the 1960s). for example, 1gardengram, maybe if the chairman of the local camellia society had gone to the church, could the massacre have been prevented? A letter campaign to the local newspaper. That would not have worked here. Power is in the hands of a small clique, and if you cross them you will astracized (sp?) and black listed. At one time, I had to close the historic property because I had to go to a meeting--no back up --every assistant had been pecked to death by the clique. The next day my supervisor called me from Montgomery to tell me this irate woman had called the Governor to complain about me. And, I got a reprimand from my agency.
This clique was able to completely isolate me and the historic property from the community--instead of a professional doing my work--my reputation was whatever they said it was.

This probably needs another thread, what can we do to protect and perpetuate our historic plants and gardens? And, what do they need to be protected from?

And thank you so much, to know some one somewhere cares. This had been a pretty lonely battle.