When do annual poppies bloom?

p. somniferum is the species name of the 'opium' poppy, and the garden variety is a cousin of the kind used to derive opiates. The garden varieties are not bred for production of the sap that is extracted for the drug, so you don't have to worry.

The 'peony flowered' poppies are generally annual. Some are not, so it is a bit confusing. You can assume that most parts are poisonous to pets and kids though.

The meconopsis poppies come in several shades of blue ( http://www.swallowtailgardenseeds.com/perennials/meconopsis_poppy.html ), and supposedly thrive in the PNW.

Thanks Illoquin for the encoragement and Greenjay for the specifics in growing them. I will write that down in my journal! I had blue poppies and Iceland poppies growing beautifully in the PNW, both in containers and garden beds. I thought I was a gardener there, because it was soooo.. easy to just grow whatever I wanted to, I really just was playing in the dirt as my pumpkins played outside and was richly rewarded! ...Then we moved here to the MIDWEST and I quickly found out that what was play there.. well lets just say, to my chagrin, I didn't know much about gardening after all! But know I have grown quantum leaps in gardening and have a whole new universe to explore... So MGH, we will have to post our stunning results for next Spring as a bouquet to all the advice and encouragement we are receiving! ;0) Geez.... I must learn to type faster also!

Thank you, greenjay for the seed company reference. I placed an order just now. LOL

Not that I want to grow it....I'm just curious, but is it illegal to grow p. somniferum?

Suzy, sure. I'm in the address exchange. Send 52 cents in postage.

MGH - No, the Flanders Flied Poppy is Papaver rhoeas. If you want some, just send me postage.

Thank you, Beaker. I will do that.

No. not illegal. It may be illegal in some areas to "harvest" the flowerheads, but DUH! we are growing them for the beauty of the flowers so there won't be any harvesting going on!

I have heard that the domestic varieties do not have the amounts of alkaloids to be any more dangerous than a foxglove (another medicinal plant). Call your local agricultural extension if you need the particulars for your area.

Yes, it's illegal, but it's not exactly evenly enforced, if ever. It is mentioned specifically in Schedule II of the federal Controlled Dangerous Substances Act.

As I said HARVESTING is illegal. I seriously doubt that the Denver Botanical Gardens would be publicly displaying federally prohibited plants in the Monet Garden.

Look it up, the statute is quite clear.
There are other plants that are illegal, without having to be harvested. I doubt they'll be charged, many people grow it and aren't charged, that doesn't mean it's not illegal.

so of course that also explains why so many seed companies are shipping the seeds all over the country. What a scandal.

I don't think it's a scandal. It's a quirk of law enforcement.
The seed is legal. All other parts of the plant and "opium straw" is illegal. The US Botanic Gardens probably grows it less than a mile from congress. I didn't write the law, I just live here

Poppies do very well here in our mild climate, but our season is short, so I start mine indoors under lights in the spring. I transplant them when they get their first true leaves. They resent transplanting, so care must be taken. They have a long tap root.

For perennials, I grow Papaver orientale (Oriental Poppy): http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/633/index.html , Papaver nudicaule (Iceland Poppy): http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1062/index.html and Meconopsis (Blue Poppy): http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/54011/index.html http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1952/index.html

For annuals, I grow Papaver somniferum (Opium Poppy): http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/238/index.html , Papaver rhoeas (Shirley Poppy, Corn Poppy): http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/237/index.html

Dang! Thanks for posting Weezi -- I had no idea Iceland poppies were perennial! I bought three from Bluestone and they didn't bloom, so I yanked them out thinking their time had come and gone. Ooops!

Suzy

Well, I'm not going to grow the p. somniferum, so I guess I'll be ok either way. Thanks for the info though.

Thank you, Weezi, for posting those links. I think I got a few seeds of both annuals and perennials so I'll see how they do.

Can you picture a cop trying to identify different poppies...not too likely! Not that they couldn't, just not exactly what they train for

Nor the neighbors. I had one neighbor (very "uptight" shall we say), who was suspicious of my Simba marigolds. She kept walking over, hands on hips, and scowling at them. "Are you sure that isn't marijuana?" Uh, yeah. The clue would be the yellow flowers, I think!

Claypa sais it was illegal to grow on a Cottage Garden Thread somewhere, and added that it was totally unenforced because botanic gardens all over the country grow it in their collections.

It is interesting that Thompson-Morgan has several varieties they will not import to the US, and yet, many US seed companies sell it.

I don't expect the DEA to come to my backyard, so I am going to grow it. Hopefully the DGers will contribute to my defense fund if need be.

Suzy

I ordered all of the varieties T-M sells on their US site, except the meconopsis (won't grow well here), and they were delivered with no problem.

There are BTW a number of seeds on their UK site that look wonderful, but they don't sell here. I would be interested to know why.

From what I saw of their catalog, they don't have any P. somniferum in their US catalog. That's the opium poppy. They do sell it in their UK version, though.

Suzy

Thompson & Morgan sells somniferum poppy seeds in the U.S. It seems that the feathered types are not offered in the U.S., however. I can only assume they have a higher opium content, or that they can sell the doubles as 'Peony Poppies' (Papaver paeoniflorum), so they've been overlooked as illegal to import.

At any rate, it is one of those laws that is rather ambiguous. If you are growing somniferum poppies in your garden, most folks will be so amazed they'll stop and ask you what they are... they're so beautiful. If you call them somniferum poppies or peony poppies, they'll be more likely to view them as beautiful flowers rather potential narcotics.

When you think about it, many of our garden favorites are also narcotic or medicinal, including opium poppies. Digitalis (foxglove) is used in heart medications, Monkshood is very poisonous, etc.

If anyone wants to try some poppy seeds, I have lots of them for SASE. Just click on my name and look at my trade list. I'll be updating it soon, as well. When it comes to annual poppies, they will grow most anywhere if grown in the cooler part of the season. As for the Himalayan Blues, they like moist, cool climates and don't do well in Southern states or any place the summers are extremely hot.

OK, I did quite a bit of research today, so let's settle it now. I am concerned that those less familiar with general botany will be too afraid to enjoy one of the really cool plants most gardens can support. No one should be worrying themselves unnecessarily.

First, there are quite a few kinds of poppies. The genus papaver has dozens of species and subspecies, and only ONE of these is used to produce opiates: papaver somniferum, or "breadseed poppy". Like most agricultural cultivars, it has been selected for very specific traits that are useful to those that mass produce them -- alkaloids refined to produce raw opium.

Ironically, the seeds you can buy in spice jars are Breadseed Poppy seeds, and are sometimes viable. Technically you could grown them, although *cultivation* of those seeds without a license could get you into hot water.

HOWEVER -- and here is the really important takeaway point -- the seeds you can buy from T&M or burpees or any other commercial producer of garden seeds are, BY LAW, selected to have < 1/100th of 1% of the amount of opiates found in the medicinal papaver somniferum. Papaver subspecies and cultivars (p.s. paeoniflorum, p. orientale, p. alpinum, p. lateritum, and p. bracteatum) that you may find in the seed catalogues are selected to have no more than the legally permissable traces of opiates. Also important -- the seeds of these other varieties are quite toxic, and should never be substituted in your favorite lemon poppyseed cake recipe! Needless to say, you would want to keep these seeds well away from children and pets.

I hope this settles the controversy once and for all. Swallowtail seeds has some really lovely and rare papaver subspecies, BTW. Anyone who wants to look it up for themselves should check out the Colorado State extension service, NDSU extension Service, and publications of the Univ. of Illinois (www.ag.uiuc.edu/~asap/news/v10n1/page2.html )

The "contoversy" won't be settled until the law is off the books, or it's enforced uniformly. It's still the law.

How ironic that the opium poppy seeds are the edible ones. I wonder what toxins are in the others

they are all alkaloids of one sort or another. You could look it up, the sources I cited are full of interesting bits.

Let me repeat myself, at risk of sounding tedious -- the LAW is that unless you are growing poppies from unmodified p. somniferum "Bread Poppies", you are in the clear.

When you take the time to learn the really fascinating science behind so much of what we take for granted in our gardens, it is glorious, exhilarating, truly wondrous. Personally, I don't get off making people afraid. "Fear is the mind killer".

Not trying to spread fear, it's not a big deal. You told mgh it's not illegal to grow Papaver somniferum. It is. The government has found ways to dance around a law they made. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. Beam me up Scotty.


edited for sweetness : )



This message was edited Nov 10, 2006 4:47 PM

live long and prosper

Kirk out.

So, I bought seeds advertised as Breadseed Poppies. Are these the ones that are illegal?

Interestingly, I just recalled a bit of info from when a friend had a DWI and had to go through that six week treatment program. Besides alcohol and drugs, they were told to abstain from baked products containing poppy seeds because, if they were tested, it would cause a positive reading for whatever chemical they were testing for.

I really doubt that the peony types are dangerous to ingest, but if that makes them OK to sell, I really don't care. I do know that the best culinary seeds are the ones that are a lovely gray shade, if that helps someone who wishes to grow them for the kitchen.

We must have been posting at the same time, Beaker. As for the drug testing, I've been told the new tests can differentiate, so it is no longer an issue if you happen to eat a poppy seed muffin before offering up a specimen. Of course, one would probably want to err on the side of caution.

Well, this was years ago and most of my friends have given up their wild and wicked ways, so haven't a clue how drug tests have evolved.

Supposedly the P.s. paeoniflorum seeds and parts *are* toxic. I'm not about to test that theory -- alkaloid poisoning is quite awful.

Papaver somniferum seedlings from march last year. About 10 seeds per little plug. Sown under lights enclosed flat in clear plastic trash bag with bottom heat. Planted out about May 1st.

Boy, that's al lot of poppies, timeinabottle! You must have grown a whole field of them!

I gave them to brothers. I gave them to sisters. I gave them to daughters. I gave them to neightbors. I gave them to strangers....and I planted some : )

How long did it take between when you sowed them and planted them out on May 1?

I wish I kept records. I think I started these about March 1st.

I plant my poppies indoors 11 weeks before last frost in the spring. I always start my seeds quite early because our season is so short. I'm sure you could do with less since your set out date is earlier, but you might try starting two batches about two weeks apart.

My set out date is no earlier than May 20 for anything that can be damaged by a frost or late snowstorm. I will use the 11 weeks ahead number.

I'll add my 2 cents to the poppy thread. I also tried for years to grow annual poppies, and never could germinate them by direct seeding them. Until about 2 years ago when I planted a whole bunch, and MARKED the area so I'd remember to water them. I planted California poppies. Low and behold, they did germinate with consistent watering, and I've never had to plant them again, they reseed themselves. And I do think I get a second batch late in the summer from the seeds that the earliest ones dropped, they actually have time to grow. I live in zone 6, my last frost date is April 10, and I planted mine on May 7 that year. The first one bloomed on July 10. Although my last frost is April 10, I live 200' from the ocean, so I don't get the frost, but it's still pretty cold in April. At my last house, in the same town, but 3 miles inland, my last frost date was May 1. I also always thought you couldn't transplant poppies, because of the tap root, but maybe that's more for the periennial ones, because I have successfully transplanted some of these Calif ones to another part of my garden.

Has anyone experimented with using deeper containers to start the poppy seedlings?

I had planned to use buckets for another tap-rooted seeding, columbines. Sounds like poppies should get the same treatment.