Acorns in Your Area

The Southern Shagbark Hickory's current accepted scientific name is Carya ovata var. australis(the common Shagbark Hickory being Carya ovata var. ovata, and the Mexican variety being C. ovata var. mexicana), and it appears to be native to the Northern 3/4 of Alabama(as well as the Northern 3/4 of Mississippi, Northern 1/2 of Georgia, most all of Tennessee, Western 1/2 of South Carolina, and the Western 1/3 of North Carolina). Also, Shellbark Hickory is supposedly native to about 2/3 of Alabama, mostly the Northern and Western parts, but like Lucky pointed out, real life experience might differ from the official maps a bit. In my area, Eastern Kansas, Shellbark Hickory is more of a bottom land only species, while Shagbark can be found in bottomlands or rocky hillsides, etc. Although Shagbark is much more common on rocky hillsides and drier upland soils.

gloria, I'd reccomend a large Southern origin Bur Oak(Quercus macrocarpa) for your spectacular tree. It produces some of the largest acorns in the world and will grow into a huge dominating tree with time. The acorns are also more edible to humans than many other Oaks, although I'd still leach the tanins before eating.

Kman_blue: WOW. Thanks. I had bur oak on my list. When I learned from the tree measurerers--forgot their website, but they are people who record the largest surviving trees--had bur oaks on their list for the largest surviving trees in the Southeast. I had not thought of eating acorns, but of course the Indians did.

When I went out to find the local American chestnut earlier, I ran into some of the older citizens here to have grown up hunting along the river. They said there are many many types of hickories here in the swamps and along the rivers. There is an arboretum in Tuscaloosa. I may have to investigate this further before I start planting my native nut tree walk, a la Gertrude Jekyl.

gloria,

Yes many Indian tribes did eat acorns, as well did some early European settlers. Also, still today people often eat acorns in Southeastern Europe(sorry I've forgotten the species involved at the moment) and along the US Mexican border, mostly in small towns where the acorns are still sometimes sold. In the latter case, the species involved is Emory Oak (Quercus emoryi), said to be one of the few Oaks you can eat the acorns raw, right off the tree without any bitter after taste. Also, I mention Southern sourced Bur Oak, because Bur Oaks from about Southern KS and MO to East TX over to Northern AL tend to have the largest acorns of any Bur Oaks. Some coming in at almost 1/3(or maybe even close to 1/2 a pound) of a pound each!

kman_blue: I looked the bur oak up in my tree book (William Carey Grimm, The Illustrated Book of Trees). The description does not mention fall color. It does have a line drawing of the leaf and that it is the same as mossy oak, and overcup oak.

gloria,

I think maybe I misunderstood what you meant, by spectacular. If you were refering to fall colors, then Bur Oak won't be that spectacular. It's fall colors are a mix of yellows and browns. Also, Mossy Oak is just another name for Bur Oak, but Overcup Oak is a completely different species of Oak. The fall colors of the Overcup Oaks grown in my area have a little more yellows(and less brown) than the Bur Oaks. But other than fall colors, I think Bur Oak is very spectacular with age.

kman_blue: by 'spectacular' I simply meant a tree that could be enjoyed for a very long time, and hopefully still be appreciated when I am no longer here. This arrangement (allee) will have maybe 50 trees in it. I want them to be big and long lived and intrinsically beautiful. Others in the arrangement will have fall color, so not all of them have to. Also, I would like them to provide nuts both for me and for any critters who might enjoy them. For example, I have some saw tooth oaks that will go along the property line, behind this feature tree.

Someone made acorn soup that was the most delicious "strange" soup I have ever eaten. Would not give me the recipe.
I agree that the Bur Oak has some of the prettiest acorns. I like to pick them and fill a bowl in the living room for sheer beauty. Sometimes my family thinks I am nuts, so what.
I am giving a demonstration on the live oak next week to a delegation of 24 garden clubs. I shall teach them how to plant an acorn. I think everyone should plant a tree from an acorn in his/her lifetime.
If anyone has a recipe for acorn soup, please pass it along. And, if anyone in the 14 states where live oaks grow--in the warm, coastal states--would like some live oak acorns (seeds) I will be happy to make up a package.

I have seeds from this tree. I think it was here when Columbus discovered America.

When I was a kid, every Mother's Day my Mom would insist on a picnic at the Wye Oak in Maryland. It was the wrong time of year for acorns, though. The state collected the acorns and you could buy them. The tree came down in a storm a few years ago, but there's a few left almost as big about a mile away, last I heard

For those interested in Quercus macrocarpa, bur oak, maybe a new thread needs to start with more directed information. Here's a picture from fall 2005 here in central KY, where the national champion resides and bur oak is one of the patriarchs of the rural landscape.

liveoaklady: how about some seed planting instructions. There are some live oaks here. In fact, there used to be a university here and live oaks were planted all around the university. The 19th century university buildings were destroyed by a tornado. The live oaks are the only trees that survived.

I live in extreme south Alabama and the only "true" hickories I see are mockernut hickory, and even those are a rare sight. Pecans are the most common, even though they were intoduced from Texas/Louisiana.

Gloria, I would reconsider planting the sawtooth oak if I were you. Did you know that it is an Asian tree that some are reporting as invasive in Alabama? It is most often planted by turkey hunters because turkeys will eat the acorns.

Escambiaguy: Thanks for the tip about the Sawtooth Oak. Did not realize it was not native. The property behind me was a wooded pasture and we often saw turkey, deer, and wild rabbit, as well as groundhogs and other critters along the back of the property.
I was thinking by planting the Sawtooths, it would provide something for the critters who have had their home destroyed by the clear cutting. I can't begin to compensate, since that is about 25 or 30 acres and I only have 3. Can you suggest something else that would make a good property line tree, and maybe feed a few turkeys?

Shumard oak is a good fast growing oak that is commonly sold at nurseries. You could also plant some American Persimmon trees. Squirrels love the seeds from pine cones. Longleaf pine is most resistant to pine beetles. Every Alabamian should read about the history of the longleaf pine forest.

Is there a reference for the long leaf pine forest? This collection sounds great to me for the back corner of my property. I have lived near a persimmon grove when I worked at Moundville. The 'possoms' love to play persimmon baseball and throw them at each other. Would the Shumard's provide for the turkeys?

Gloria, I sent you D-mail.

Liveoaklady, I just got back last night from a trip to Houston and drove I-10 all the way through Louisiana. I stopped at a rest stop near Lake Charles and there was a live oak there that had the most acorns I have ever seen. I even seen one of them that was sprouting while still on the tree. I grabbed a handful and brought them home with me.

Escambiaguy: You have convinced me I need to buy more land to plant all the native trees listed in the links you sent. Thanks.

liveoaklady:http://www.nativetech.org/recipes/recipe.php?reciphttp://


I am doing something wrong here trying to paste this link. Anyhow there is a recipe for acorn soup, nupa at this location.

I have an oak tree near my property line in front, but I haven't noticed a single acorn.

Acorn Mush recipe: http://www.nativetech.org/recipes/recipe.php?recipeid=11

Acorn Pancakes rcipe: http://www.nativetech.org/recipes/recipe.php?recipeid=245

Apache Acorn Stew w/ Dumplings recipe: http://www.nativetech.org/recipes/recipe.php?recipeid=286

Acorn Breakfast recipe: http://www.nativetech.org/recipes/recipe.php?recipeid=9

Nupa (Acorn) Soup recipe: http://www.nativetech.org/recipes/recipe.php?recipeid=115

I think the last one is the one White_Hydrangea was trying to post, but maybe someone is interested in the others also.

How to Plant an Acorn.

This is the simple method that I use in the kindergarten classes and in the elementary schools.

One styrofoam cup with 3 pencil holes punched in the bottom. Fill the cup halfway with potting soil. Place your acorn in lying on its side. Add potting soil til the cup is 3/4 full. Keep moist. When the acorn sprouts be certain it gets light for at least 6 hours a day. When it is about 8 inches high you can transplant it to a larger pot or if you are a very careful and watchful gardener, plant it directly into the ground, well mulched and watered.

Some people give all sorts of scientific methods but I have found that this works for me. I even had an acorn sprout on my office desk just sitting on a paper napkin that I kept moist.

Try it--everyone should plant a tree "from scratch" at least once in a lifetime.

Escambiaguy, wish you had let me know you were driving on I-10 only 2 blocks from my house. Would have treated you to lunch or supper at my table and given you a tour of trees that would make your heart sing.

liveoaklady,
The tree you were photographed with above was magnificent. I was raised in the NO area in Algiers. I once lived in a house that had a live oak that two people couldn't put their arms around, in the patio. It was a wonderful experience. When I was a child in that area, there weren't many houses around and we used to ride our bikes to what we called "The Big Oak". It was rather like the one in your picture with branches going up then arching back down and touching the ground. We could climb on the branches touching the ground and go up into the high part of the tree. There was a strong cable tied aroudn a high branch and you could swing on it if you wrapped Spanish moss around it. Otherwise the metal of the cable hurt your hands. Since the limbs of the tree touched the ground it made something like a big tent or house. You could go inside and no one could see you. Unfortunately this tree succombed, years ago to a development. It was my playhouse for many years.
I have a farm in Mississippi about 85 miles from Moisant Airport. I often fly into New Orleans and drive up to the farm after a stop at a grocery store on Veterans. My mother planted too many oaks in the yard at the farm. As they get larger and larger, the yard is becoming dense shade and shutting out the azaleas and other plants. I prune the lower branches whenever I am there, but the llower imbs continually try to reach the ground. Thought the trees are far apart, I will eventually have to remove one or two of them so the others can live. Sad, but necessary.
Oak seedlings come up in all the flower beds and removing them is not easy unless I get them early. Trees in Louisiana and Mississippi are the most wonderful I have ever seen except for the redwoods in California.
Perhaps next time I pass through on the way to the farm, if it isn't too late at night, I will contact you.

I am surrounded by 100+ year old oaks..The acorns seem to be light one year and the next an over abundance..This is the heavy year, the ground, roof, porches and everywhere else is solid and can be scooped up with a shovel..Heavy and light has alternated on a regular schedule for the nearly forty years I have been on this sw GA farm...My BIL always says deer stands are best under the oak with the most acorns..||||||The deer love them, so do my pet goats, lol..

Larkie

Larkie: What kind of oaks are they? How close are you to water? Are you in an upland or low situation?

Souther Live Oaks.., huge, old, beautiful trees..I love them..Only water is ponds on our farm.. We are still in drought here in southwest GA..I am 65 miles from the Florida state line..Not lowland or upland here, sort of level, lol..

Larkie

My advice to anyone interested in planting a live oak. If you do not have the space to let it grow naturally, like a young woman with her arms extended at her sides in a soft curtsey, than plant something else that grows upright. The natural shape of a live oak is "wide" and its branches dips down to hug the earth and also to make space for little children, and big children, to sit upon and climb.
An acquaintance trimmed all of the branches on his gorgeous live oak ten feet up the trunk. I told him he just as soon have planted a palm tree.
I have a photo site of live oaks. If you type in my full name you can get it on the web.
Coleen Perilloux Landry

For many years I was curator of a house museum here which features Magnolias--Magnolia Grandiflora. You cannot believe how many forces there are in this small town to destroy and disfigure those trees. A visitor commented that cutting the lower limbs off the Magnolias, is just like cutting off the skirts of ladies in antebellum dresses. Now with Miss Scarlet have stood for that!

Liveoaklady: I went out to college street and the old cemetery yesterday to collect live oak acorns.

I think these are all live oaks. On one tree the acorns were about an inch long and very abundant.
On trees in the cemetery, the acorns were less than 1/2 inch and not abundant. This was a very old tree. Is there really that much variability among the live oaks acorns? Or maybe these are not all live oaks. Is there another kind of oak, that resembles the live oak. The larger acorns were on a younger tree in near a parking lot. Maybe it is a hybrid?

What a great thread on trees, acorns, and all! Love all the info!

While on a camping trip recently I was walking along a river in upper Arkansas and came across some HUGE acorns. I just had to gather a few to bring home. (We don't have them this big in NC, that I know of anyway.)

The tree was growing on the bank of the river but I wasn't able to recognize it as any oak we have here.

Does anyone know what kind of oak tree would begat such huge acorns? (In the pic, that is a dime, not a nickel, for size comparison.)

Shoe.

Gloria 125, some of our younger oaks have larger acorns this year, I have noticed. You can tell if an oak is a live oak, Quercus virginiana, by the fact that it stays green all year round. It sheds its old leaves while it is taking on its new leaves so the tree never goes bare.

Larkie, you must register your live oaks with the Live Oak Society. Type Live Oak Society in search and you will get our website with all the information and a link to a registration form. There are over 5,400 members in the 14 states where the live oak grows.

Horseshoe, that looks like the acorn of a Bur oak. It is really a beautiful acorn.

Shoe,

It looks like Bur Oak(Quercus macrocarpa) to me too. Although, the size of the caps makes it look like some possible introgression with Overcup Oak(Q. lyrata) has occurred.

This message was edited Oct 24, 2006 2:35 PM

Thanks! I'll go check them out in one of my tree books. If I see the leaves (in the book) I'll recognize what I saw.

Those acorns look big enuff to eat, don't they! Maybe I should try to germinate one or two.

Shoe.

I'm with Kman - looks like bur oak to me. I had some sent to me this fall from a generous fellow in TX which indeed look like there was some Q.lyrata influence - much more inclusive of the acorn than most southern bur oaks I've encountered, and much less in the way of 'fringe' around the edge of the cap. Shell was not, however, thick & corky, like overcup oak, but I don't think those from my confirmed Q.lyrataXbicolor are, either.
Leaves on this tree were more deeply incised than most bur oaks I've encountered

Here's a photo of an acorn from that tree. Sure looks like some overcup 'in the woodpile', to me.

Lucky,

What an amazing looking tree! That foliage is incredible, and the acorn quite interesting. What form does the entire tree make? Do the leaves color at all in the fall?

Scott

I think Overcup is a shorter acorn. The length of that one in question is longer than any Overcup I have seen and greatly resembles the Bur oak.

liveoaklady, I am one of those who would love to grow a Live Oak but don't have space for it to grow to maturity. What do you know about the Sand Live Oak? Dirr lists it as 20 to 30 ft high and similar in habit. I am wondering about the spread of the tree- 20 to 30 ft? My soil here is relatively sandy - we are in a transition area between the piedmont and sand hills so we have about a foot of sandy top soil above clay.

Edited to add: Sand Live Oak- Quercus geminata

This message was edited Oct 24, 2006 9:44 PM

It is quite similar in habit to the live oak and is often mistaken for it, though the areas in the U. S. where the Quercus geminata grows is quite limited. It is a very hardy tree and drought tolerant and sand tolerant. In fact, you can hardly kill it. It is an interesting tree and beautiful in the landscape.

chamthy,

You might try the Plateau/Escarpment Live Oak(Quercus fusiformis) which is generally a more narrow growing smaller tree than Q. virginiana. You could also try the much smaller shrubby Minimal Oak(Q. minima). Although this one rarely gets larger than a large shrub. Both of these 2 species at one time were considered varieties of Q. virginiana, although they both are quite distinct. So, they are similar looking in general to Q. virginiana, except their growth habits.

PS. Q. geminata is said to grow as big as 75' in Florida, but I'm not sure about farther North. Perhaps it's a bit smaller, it still seems like it might be capable of 40'-50' in your area. But then again, NC State claims it only gets about 20' tall in your state, so who knows. I think perhaps the 20' figure is based on it growing in dry deep sandy soils.