Can I do this to a fruit tree?

I don't want to grow a potted fruit tree but can you plant a tree in the ground in a pot to limit it from getting to big? I would like to grow a local Persimmon tree but they get 25 ft tall or so. I can't seem to find a semi dwarf, I'm after a tree that would be about 12-15 high, same width.

I would not put it in a pot just keep it trimmed to the height and width you want. I put pear trees under utility lines, I plan on espaliering along my fence. Now if I sell the property and the next owners do not keep it trimmed up they will have problems down the line and the utility company will have to come in and trim them out. I see no advantage to keeping them in a pot in the ground, the roots can and will break free eventually, and if not allowed enough room you could get a "top heavy" situation going on making the tree very unstable and susceptable to high winds. My thinking is you could bonsai a redwood if you really wanted too.....

This message was edited Oct 16, 2006 4:49 PM

I didn't think of the tree being top heavy. Probably a better idea top keep it trimmed.

My suggestion would be to forget the pot and apply diligent summer pruning, trimming the tree in June and late August. This will cause the tree to grow much more slowly. One way to imagine how much to cut off is to remove half of the new growth each time you prune. Also, pick the height you want and brutally cut off anything that ever goes over that limit. By definition you have just achieved your desired height! Thinning pruning is also periodically needed in the winter to "open up" the tree, all the summer pruning can lead to too many branches. I have several pears I am growing this way, pears can grow to 50+' if not trimmed. I would say you can keep a tree half its normal size this way without a super lot of effort; for smaller size it gets to be more difficult.

Scott

I've not tried it with persimmons - but have done it with apples and pecans - but 'bark inversion' is a possible means of 'dwarfing' trees on their own roots or on seedling rootstock, and inducing earlier fruiting. In early spring, just as the bark begins 'slipping', you make two girdling cuts, an inch or so apart, all the way around the trunk of the tree, peel the bark off and put it back on upside down, then wrap & seal as you would an ordinary graft. This inverted section of bark interferes with the normal movement of sugars & auxins produced in the leaves back down to the root system, concentrating them in the part of the tree above the inverted section of bark.
Eventually, normal pathways will be re-established, and in order to maintain the dwarfing effect, you have to repeat the process, but you might get as many as 5-10 years of dwarfing out of a bark inversion.
I'll be the first to admit that it creates a not-too pleasing knot or burl in the trunk, and there's always the possibility of the bark not re-seating, resulting in loss of all plant material above the inversion.

Scott's recommendation for summer pruning may actually be a much better - and more aesthetically-pleasing approach.

I'm thinking gridling isn't the way to go. Seem like I could kill off a tree pretty fast that way.

I suspect you could keep a persimmon pruned to a manageable height - even with traditional fruit trees (apples, pears, etc.) on semi-dwarfing rootstocks, YOU are ultimately in control of how big they get - if you don't take control, they don't just stop growing at 12 ft. Summer pruning should help to keep vigorous vegetative growth in check, to some degree.
Have a look here:
Dwarf Tree? But it's so BIG!
http://www.davewilson.com/homegrown/all_ed/teds_head06_dwarf.html

Check out ichi ki kei jiro. It is consistently described as 10' and early fruiting. A very beautiful tree--I'll post a picture when I figure out how to work the new camera.

Thanks but the Asian trees don't seem to fruit well, I'll check that one out though.

I've got a spot at the edge of my orchard, just above the pond, where there's a shelf of sandstone bedrock VERY close to the surface. Actually, when I planted a couple of D.virginiana seedlings there, I had to literally 'bust' a planting hole down into the weathered/cracked sandstone. A year or so later, I grafted these two seedlings to the D.v.XD.k. hybrids 'Rosseyanka' and 'Keener'. Both fruited heavily this year - one tree is undert 6 ft tall, the other - where there's a little bit more soil, and it was grafted a year earlier - is maybe 8 ft. Big, 2.5" seedless(or mostly so) fruits that hang well on the tree; astringent, but mildly so, and once they soften a bit, they're very good.
D.virginiana will grow in some pretty inhospitable spots - got a crack in the sidewalk somewhere?

Lucky P two things. As far as semi dwarf trees, I have room for them and realize what size that is. I'm planting for show and to get fruit I can eat right off the tree. I have room for 10 15 ft wide trees. 15-20 ft high would look nice. I'm doing two staggered rows down one side of my back yard.

As far as grafting I don't know how to do that. My soil is very rich, a little sandy with about a 5.7 PH. For the most part I have no trouble growing things because of the soil. Getting the sun right is more my problem. If I could figure out grafting I might try but I'm start at 0 knowledge with that and I want to have this small orchard up and run in two years. This winter I want to have everything planted then get things sorted out for the rest of the year.