Has anyone had any experiences with "Tropigrow" for Palms?

Any good? Any bad? I searched both this and the garden products forum and couldn't find anything.

Thanks :-)

If I wanted to find out whether it works, I'd findout whats in it, and then cross check whether any horticultural departments in universities that study palms support the use of the ingredients. Florida has several universities that have horticultural departments that seem very knowledgable on palms. This might prevent you from buying some "snake oil".

amaranthara00 now that I have researched tropigrow(Kelp extract), I can comment. I have used a product called bioactivate, which is a combination of kelp extracts and humates(basically, the key final decomposition product of peat moss), and I can offer support for the use of this product, though you should also consider the use of humic acid(humates) as well, as in "bioactivate". This combination stimulates root growth by supplying fuel to the beneficial microbes in soil that stimulate root growth of plants. I have had very good results in applying this humates and kelp mixture to the roots of my palms. I can verify that root growth(and growth in general) has been outstanding using this solution(bioactivate) for palms and other trees and plants. I have had many palms double in size(leaf mass) within 2 years using this kind of product. Good luck in your plantings, and consider that no one manufacturer of this kind of product has the market cornered. Many suppliers of kelp sediment and humates exist and they are probably all essentially similar.

Thanks so much for the info! I think I'll give it a try :-)

Gilbert, where can you buy this bioactivate? is it sold world wide, or just in usa? is there someone who would ship it? Gary

Do a google search for "natureslawn"(www.natureslawn.com?). They sell the "aerify" surfactant for increasing soil breathability, and "Bioactivate" for accelerating root growth. Depending on your soil type, the bioactivate may have a pronounced effect. I have heavy clay soil with little natural humus, so it really gives my plants a kick in the behind. If you have poor drainage they sell a combo product. Be careful as the kelp in the bioactivate will clog many garden sprayers. I mostly administer it with a watering can(2-3 oz per 5 gal can) to guarantee delivery of the material.

garyirayn2, in the UK you might use the words "humates" or "humic acid" in conjunction with "soil treatment" or "soil ammendment" to find a local vendor with an internet search engine.

desertpalm - how often are you treating/feeding your in-ground palms? Are you using the products referenced in your above post only or do you combine with a "palm food?" DH and I new to palms in landscape and want to make sure we do this right!

We also have the triangle palms in huge pots......

Hi mrsj
It looks to me like you are cutting your fronds of to early.
There are so few left on the palms. Were they browning?
As a beginner [growing palms for 35 odd years] I think they look a bit naked.

ginger - thanks for responding! Unfortunately, that is how they came from the nursery - in 5 gal containers, with barely any dirt left around roots, and this picture was taken a day after we transplanted them into the pots - we have three of them and one has new frond with a 2nd showing, the other two each have new frond, but now that it has gotten cold everything is slowing down ....

They were definately naked, but they were the only triangle palms we could find here and I really wanted them! I figured if I was patient they would respond to better growing conditions....

patience......I am learning patience......

audrey

Mrs J, the feeding of palms is related to the soil drainage and the length of the growing season. Thats why some palm growers in florida recommend 6X a year, they have the mostly great drainage and a long growing season. My soil is heavily ammended using sand(15%), peat(25% and the aerify/bioactivate. This means that my soil is unusual for PHX, so beware if you dont ammend or treat like I do! Drainage is rapid in my yard, I never see puddles even after each palm gets its 40gals/5hr watering. When I moved in, puddles were everywhere after watering sometimes for 2 days even with sand/peat remediation. Aerify has changed that for me. I fertilize twice a year with palm spikes and supplement with slow release "surface" palm food 2 times a year. I also add a miraclegrow wetdown just prior to a deep watering event about once a month in the summer. The reason I like the aerify is that it increases drainage immediately and allows for rinsing of the soil hardness. The effect lasts for about 4-6 months and allows rinsing of the soil, feeding of deep roots, a deep dry cycle, and deep penetration by the sulfur pellets to lower pH. Eventually the soil will be naturally draining as the Ca and Mg are rinsed from it. I also plant my Mexican Blues and Bismarckia slightly elevated (3-4 inches) from the ground around them and keep water loving plants(and the plantlines) away from their root systems to increase drainage. These two palms(mexican Blue, Bismarckia) are the ones that really need a thorough dry cycle. Just keep in mind that increasing soil drainage allows for faster growing palms and reduces the time interval of the watering cycle. If I was in so cal, I would definitely add the aerify just prior to a wet spell in the winter, it will help guard against root rot in the "wet" winter season. I have more details for PHX Mrs J, including the use of trenches with aerify to establish drainage zones at the drip line. Drop me an email.

Mrs J, I dont want to spoil you love for triangle palms, but they are not particularly suited to our area. They just dont like the cold or the extreme dry heat that can occur in Phx. Good luck with them and try to keep them warm this winter. I also understand they should not get direct sun in arizona for more than an hour or two a day, so a canopy tree may be in order. I also really like them, but I was advised not to grow them here except in a shaded area next to the house(heat). If you like feather palms, why not try a Butia Capitata, they do well here. Here is one I have that has doubled in size over the last 2 years.

I can thank my landscaper if they don't make it - he recommended them over the Butias as he has had them growing in his yard for about 10 years - told us not to overwater, once the ones in the ground were over their transplant shock we were to remove the drip line, only water about once a month in the summer...starting next year.....and he said that the ones in the pots would love it as they do not like wet roots at all! His backyard is like a forest of palm trees......so if mine do not make it I will take your suggestions and start over......in the meantime I will try to protect them the best I can.

Thanks for all the good info!

This is from the "palm doctor":

"The Triangle Palm's fronds are rather severely damaged at temperatures below Zero degrees Celcius (32 degrees F.), and even older specimens might easily require 2 full years, or more, to fully renew a full "normal" canopy of fronds after a severe winter's freeze event!"

By the way Butias are good to the high teens, about 8-10 degrees cooler than the triangle palm.

"only water about once a month in the summer"

- He was referring to Triangle Palm (Dypsis decaryi)? In Phoenix in the summer? That is crazy!!!

So....should I wrap the trunks or try to get a sheet over the fronds to protect them? Or both? I babied my Orchid trees through freezing temps many years ago (they were over 30 ft. tall the last time I drove by my old house) so I'm not a stranger to having my yard look like its full of ghosts, if you think it would help...it couldn't hurt, right?

Trust me...I didn't listen to the watering instructions!


This message was edited Dec 5, 2006 2:34 PM

I would try to wrap them this year, they will be especially vulnerable unitl the roots are established. I would tell anyone that waters any palm once a month in PHX in the summer that they are either full of compost or their palms look like crap. The most dry tolerant palms for AZ are the mexican blues, and the washingtonia filifera, and they will die, or look near dead ,with once a month watering in summer. The statement about palms in containers outside in phoenix is dubious. I have found that container specimens in PHX take alot more watering and work than those in the ground, so much so, I dont grow them in containers anymore. I can always tell how healthy a palm is by how many fronds it supports(within a species). If you overwater(depends on drainage) you lose fronds, and if you underwater, you lose them. Generally, the palm will only keep the number of fronds that the root system can support(supply with water, nutrients). Roots die off from both drought and from failure to get a good dry cycle(poor drainage, root rot), so your number of supportable fronds is dependent on the root system, which is dependent on drainage and care. My mexican blues have 25-28 fronds, my butias have about 20, and my bismarckia have around 15-17 once established(2yrs). Even my queens that are established have 14-15 fronds, and thats a water loving palm in a dry state. Improving your soil drainage and then timely watering to effect a good dry cycle will allow your palms to support more fronds by expanding the root system. It is true though that palms bought from a valley nursery have alot fewer plams and look stressed, so I would expect your triangles to have a relatively small number of palms. What I didnt expect was the yellow coloring of the fronds as the triangles I have seen at nurseries were more of a grey green.

The heat should be ok for the triangles, mine was subject to 3 weeks straight of 100 plus temps and several over 110 and came thru with flying colors but the cold may present a challenge. I'm not sure what the temps get down to in phoenix but they can take down to aprox 28F. They do prefer less water than many other species but they still need sufficient water to look nice. I happen to have exellent drainage in my location, I watered mine about 3 to 5 times a week during the hottest times of the year and was rewarded with vigorous growth, but the key is knowing your soil type and how well your drainage is.

Don, I dont know what your humidity is like there, but I have had discussions with an experienced nursery owner(40 yrs) in PHX about the triangle and other palms. True, the cold is worse than the heat for the triangle, but 110+ here comes in may/june with 8-15% humidity. Add to that the heat from the late day sun and it is trouble for many palms. Palms lose water through their leaves and absorb it through the roots to resupply the leaves. When water is lost faster than it can be replenished, the palm will start giving up the bottom fronds first. Water losses are related in a complex way to wind, humidity, temps, and absorbtion of radiation by the leaves(dark leaves absorb more), which heats the palm, thereby driving water from the fronds. Many palms that can take full southern california sun cannot take full AZ sun due to differences in humidity in the lower AND upper atmosphere.

The humidity in the lower atmosphere is important as it determines the moisture gradient across the leaf cell membrane. Humidity in the upper atmosphere serves to pre-filter light wavelengths that are absorbed by water before the light gets to the palm, reducing radiative heating of the palm leaf by sunlight(increases loss of water from palm leaf). Is your location on the east side or the west side of the mountains? If you are east of mountains, your humidity might be more similar to AZ humidity, but if you are on the west side, chances are that your microclimate is more humid in the lower atmosphere. At any rate it is likely that so cal has higher humidity in the upper atmosphere just due to the general proximity of the ocean, even if the humidity in the lower atmosphere is more similar to AZ if the cool ocean temps tend to keep it drier near the ground.

Here are some comments on palms I have and the Phx microclimate:

queens: cannot take late day sun in the hot season without alot of leaf burn unless root syustems are extensive and palms are bunched together
pindos: have better growth and color with some filtering of late day sun( I have 7 in various exposure positions)
phx roebelini: will lose alot of palms in the late day sun positions, but grow thick and bushy all the way to the ground when shielded form late day sun.(I have 15)
Bismarckia: Beware the first summer after planting, but after that they are OK.
Mexican Blues: very resilient, amazing(light color may help as light absorbtion is low)
Livistonia chinesis: will die in full sun here, must be planted in the shadows of other trees/palms.( I have one and have protected it with netting when young and now with 3 queens) it is also located on the east side of my house within 8', meaning no late day sun.
Trachycarpus Fortunei: will die in full sun in here, I have them in part shade, no late day sun.
Sabal Blackburniana: pretty tough fan palm after the first summer, similar to bismarckia
Sabal Bermudana: I have a nice one with 24 palms, but it is shielded from late day sun, and some filtering of mid-day sun in the hot season.

I have been told to forget jubea, triangles, kings, royals as they will be difficult or impossible to sustain here.

Dezertpalm, which mountains were you referring to? I'm located about 40 miles as a crow flies from the coast due east of Los Angeles and about 65 west of Palm Springs palm springs, just south of the San Gabriel mountains. I have to agree with you on the humidity, I didn't realize your summer humidity was that low. during summer we average between 35-55% humidity and higher with the monsoons that come up from Mexico, with average temps of 95 in july and august. 50% isn't considered humid by east standards but definately more than Phoenix. It's not untill fall and winter when the Santa Ana winds come that the humidy really takes a dive to the teens and sometimes single digits. The dry air that we get during the windy season seems to take it's biggest toll on the leaves of my royals, drying them out and making them look tattered, some years worse than others.

Don, I was just referring to the concept of mountains taking moisure out of the air as it rises over them. Since weather generally moves west to east, the driest areas have large mountains to their west (as in death valley). Mountains to the east will tend to concentrate humidity, increase rainfall, as in the cascades. The west side of the cascades are like a jungle, but the east is a high desert climate with modest levels of vegetation. It all occurs due to the condensation of moisture from air as the air rises over the mountains. We also get the monsoon in about mid july and it really gives plants a break with the humidity around 45%. This of course occurs due to the change in the winds from west to the south, where there are no mountains and where there is alot of warm water evaporating into the air. But just prior to the monsoon it gets so dry here for about 2 months that combined with the heat of 110 or so, its the toughest time of the year for almost any plant. If you grow palms in clay(unammended soil) here, the dry season will result in some browned palms which may take years to grow out. This is why I believe that so many palms here look over trimmed, because the root systems in clay soil are not expansive enough support a good number of fronds in the dry/hot season. Many homeowners here have queens with less than 6-7 fronds, and they are established palms of 25'. Often chamaerops and phx roebelini here are trimmed up so much they look like broomsticks. Mine are thick like shrubs, you cant even see the multiple trunks. The phoenix microclimate is very dry in general, I think we have gone more than 100 days without rain 3-4 times in the past 5 years, with one 140 day stint. On the other hand, the low humidity makes the 100+ degree days more pleasant for human beings as the body cools itself readily by sweating. I like the dry season temps up to about 106-107. They use misters at restaurants and you can eat dinner outside at those temps because the misters can cut the heat by 25-30 degrees on a patio when humidity is low(

speaking of palms in AZ, here is a foxtail palm in Scottsdale (just east of Phoenix). This palm is sun, drought, wind and frost tolerant so maybe it's a good choice in AZ.