The e coli outbreak found on fresh bagged spinach

I read that some think the problem is producers have begun to harvest and package vegetables right in the field in order to save costs and streamline production. Thoughts, comments?

I caught that on the news too and it reminded me that there was the same problem with the bagged lettuces over the summer at one point. I'm a little too skeeved out to ever try the bagged stuff again, it's just not worth it.

The real problem is that somewhere in the chain, there is contamination by animal manure. In one of the lettuce cases, the water used in the washing process was contaminated because of run off from a feed lot. Hopefully they are not fertilizing green leafy vegetables with manure.

What does that mean to us as gardeners? I've been fertilizing my beds and my root vegetables with a manure/compost mix. Am I putting myself in danger? Should we not use manure anymore? And I just dug up potatoes from those beds.

Gardeners have always used manure. And they've always eaten what they grew. Why aren't we all dead?

1. Our immune systems are not what they use to be before modern medicine. 2. A lot of people did die, the average age expectancy around 1900 was only 45 years, alot of that due to so many children dieing. 3. E. coli H may make some healthy adults sick, but it is deadly only to those with weak immune systems like some children and elderly.

Compost is usually heated enough and aged enough to kill the bacteria. BUT for all food crops eaten raw, I would be very careful with using manure as a fertilizer. It is true that the old folks used manure direct from the barn as fertilizer. Certainly we did on the farm, when I was a kid. But No One in my parents cohort would eat a raw vegetable. Usually, by modern standards, they cooked them to death.

LOL, Farmerdill. Your parents sound like mine. A vegetable had to be well and truly lifeless before they'd serve it.

Farmerdill,
I notice that cow manure is suspected in much e coli contamination. Does that apply to all manures such as horse manure? Or is it caused by cow manure because we have a lot more cows around than anything else.

E coli is a fixture in the intestional tract of a ll animals including us. This particular strain O157:H7 is the bad actor, but is probably found in other animals as well as cows.
http://www.cdc.gov/healthypets/diseases/ecoli.htm http://people.ku.edu/~jbrown/ecoli.html

Thanks for this excellent and in depth look at E. coli. The KU article was especially good.

I just heard on today's news that it's not mandaory for stores to pull all spinach, so if someone hasn't heard about this, they're on their own. What could the FDA be thinking?

roseone - there is something very odd about this e.coli issue this time around. There are a lot of tracking numbers on food packages. Every other e.coli outbreak that has occurred has rapidly been traced back to the packing plant or grower based on these. Also, in prior outbreaks, e.coli was isolated in the suspect products or at the suspect plants. The news articles continually indicate that no e.coli had been isolated in any of the organic spinach packages tested by the brands mentioned, yet the media continue to warn the public off organic produce. It is extremely unusual that they can't trace it.

I too find this thing very weird. Like garden mermaid says, they haven't found any E. coli on any of the spinach or in the packages or in the factories that packaged the spinach. Hmm... It does seem like a huge blow against organic veggies. I even heard one report mention that most E. coli reports lately have been for veggies rather than meat. Like meat is safe now. Sure, if you're not worried about prions or bird flu or whatever the latest thing is.

I must say, though, that I have never liked raw spinach.:)

Actually, today they reported that it wasn't just organic spinach that is (supposedly) infected but even conventional spinach. The latest reports and advisories also say they are now pulling the bagged salads that contain spinach. Guess they're covering all the bases, eh?

Last I heard they are looking at the water supply; perhaps that is where the e. coli is originating? I guess we'll see.

Shoe.

The news update I read today said they traced all the supposedly affected packages to the conventional spinach, not the organic ones, yet they keep mentioning the organic brands. It could be the water supply.... I'm just surprised because spinach and lettuce are a key crop for the Salinas area and they know how devastating a contamination incident would be for the area. There are a few "conspiracy" theorists who think this was planted to discredit organic growers in retaliation for the recent defeat of the "Monsanto bill". Hope they print something concrete soon. Guess we'll have to setup hydroponics in the garage and be on the lookout. Lettuce has narcotic properties.

I love raw spinach. I always had spinach salads. I'll miss it.

I miss it too. I love to make "wilted" spinach salads where you toss them with a warm dressing.

Why can't you just wash the spinach. I hate the thought of not eating spinach salads.

All the more reason to be a gardener and grow your own food. It's imperative to practive good sanitation in the field, barnyard and the house. And it can't hurt to eat seasonally. Eat what you can grow where you live and learn how to extend your growing seasons. It was how those who came before us managed before it was commonplace to eat produce shipped cross country and from around the world. Guess it comes back to think globally, grow locally. Just my opinion.

99frogs (love that name!), you can't just wash the spinach because the e.coli bateria gets into the spinach, not just on its outer surface. I hope you don't chance it.

G.Mermaid, is this the latest update you read? I get these 'emergency alerts' sent to my Inbox; some of ya'll might want to sign up for them (it's FREE~!)

http://www.emergencyemail.org/newsemergency/anmviewer.asp?a=138&z=1

Shoe.

My gramma lived on the Hudson River in upstate New York. And as a child I entertained myself catching frogs in the river. I've always liked them. If I wasn't afraid of snakes I'd like to join a study group. maybe someday. I'm glad you wrote back because I was wondering if it was in the spinach or just on it. That is very strange to me that a bacteria can cross over into a plant. I won't be eating salads for a while,,,

Hopefully it won't be too long before they identify the source of this outbreak. Till we know how it got in the spinach field or packing plant or whereever this is all speculation.

The time it is taking to find the source is what is suspicious here. The paperwork and regulations for certified organic foods creates a definite "audit" trail for chain of custody of the food. There have been other e.coli outbreaks around the country in years past and the source of contamination was found within days. If it is contamination from the neighboring CAFOs via the irrigation water, that should have been easy to find.

This was an interesting article:
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=72587

Here is another link. It contains some of the points from the link above and emphasizes buying locally.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/2006/article_2407.cfm

This message was edited Sep 19, 2006 12:13 PM

This just in from the AP via the NTTimes. E Coli has been found in the leftover spinach from a bag used by a person who got sick in New Mexico. This is the first "smoking gun". This should help to track down where the bacteria is actually coming from. See:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Tainted-Spinach.html

Thanks for the update. I'm still amazed that this is taking so long to uncover the source.

For those that are interested:

We use cattle manure but it's is well aged and turned.

Analysis of Escherichia coli O157:H7 survival in ovine or bovine manure and manure slurry. Indira T. Kudva, Kathryn Blanch and Carolyn J. Hovde.
Applied and Environmental Microbiology v64.n9 (Sept 1998): pp3166(9).
About this publication | How to Cite | Source Citation | Translate

Subjects

Abstract:

Research was conducted to examine the survival of Escherichia coli O157:H7 in the manures of cattle and sheep exposed to fluctuating environmental conditions and in experimentally inoculated manure. E. coli O157:H7 was found to survive for over one year in a nonaerated ovine manure pile exposed to environmental conditions. It survived for four months and 47 days for aerated ovine manure and bovine manure, respectively.


Source Citation: Kudva, Indira T., Kathryn Blanch, and Carolyn J. Hovde. "Analysis of Escherichia coli O157:H7 survival in ovine or bovine manure and manure slurry." Applied and Environmental Microbiology 64.n9 (Sept 1998): 3166(9). Expanded Academic ASAP. Thomson Gale. Moose Jaw Public Library. 22 Sep. 2006
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This message was edited Sep 22, 2006 1:05 PM

How can the e.coli exist within the plant cells themselves? I thought that a thorough washing was enough to be safe. We have always washed our bagged greens -- local or not -- because we figure we'll do a good job on them.

CNN just had a reader poll asking if people would now be willing to wash their "ready-to-eat" greens: if washing isn't enough, that poll is going to leave a lot of people with the wrong impression.

In the lettuce scare, washing was recommended. This time around, apparently CDC determined that washing was not sufficiently safe. Of course, part of the problem is striving for absolute safety and like all absolutes is rarely attainable. It is unlikely that e coli H is incorporated in the plant, but may be embedded to the extent that washing will not guarantee the absolute removal .

Okay, good to know. I certainly hope that, even if washing isn't enough, it does help to remove some concentration of the contaminant.

Yep, I'd still be scared of eating it if it was washed. Apparently some "authorities" tend to think if the water (wash water or irrigation) was contaminated w/the e.coli then the plant may have taken it up into itself via capilarry action.

I rec'd a notice yesterday that the e.coli could be killed if cooked to 160º and would make the spinach safe to eat. However, it also mentioned that if cooking "stir-fry" style that some parts of the spinach may not reach the desired heat while other parts would.

Oh well...checking my garden daily to see when my spinach seeds will declare!!

Shoe.

I don't have to worry about it. My mom beat it into my head in the 30's that only cows and goats eat raw vegetables. Apparently she was right, when she stressed " raw food can kill you".

Being the devil's advocate here Dill, but even tomatoes?

Nope. The rule was if it was green, it had to be cooked. I got swatted for eating raw English peas. But it also applied to raw snapbeans and of course to all green leafy veggies. Tomatoes, plums, peaches, apples, pears, strawberries, blackberries , huckle berries were exempt. Yes we grew leaf lettuce, but it was fed to the chickens designated as spring fryers. We did not eat it.

Well, you're living proof that all vegetables, cooked or raw, are good for you. But not many of us raised on salads are willing to give up raw food. It has made me think twice about the source of my bagged fertilizers and entirely shut down me buying any bagged fresh greens from the supermarket, organic or not.

The first question the dr asked my grandson, who is 34 years old, if he ate spinach because he became deathly ill while he was away from home traveling for business. He did notbeing aware of the problem, has no idea what he could have eaten other than a salad and fish. His Dr, declared one could get it from fish too. GD was given antibiotics at once and felt better two weeks later, now he seems to be ok. We are just hoping there will be no horrid repercussion later .

I am still eating lettuce and spinach from my compost fertilized garden. I cook the spinach but not the lettuce. My compost does heat up to about 160 and it is usually many months before it is finished enough for use. That and a good immune system ( I taught school for 13 years and was exposed to everything in the world) have kept me alive. My DH has led a more sheltered life, but he hasn't gotten sick either. Somehow, I still trust that most of us are safe with manure fertilized veggies and, I am willing to eat bagged lettuce and spinach, but luckily don't need to. Maybe I am just a bit wild.

Anybody buying and eating raw bagged spinach, organic or otherwise yet? I haven't even checked to see if it's back in the stores yet?

I looked the other day and our walmart still hasn't put it back on the shelves yet. there's no spinach in bags or in the produce section that is sold not in the bag but tied up with a twisty, It's all still gone.

I have spinach in my garden this fall as a cover crop so I'm good to go all winter LOL and there's no manure on the garden, but we did actually plan to put chicken litter there and disk it in, but didn't get it in time, anyways, it's growing and doing well.


kathy

Just this morning I see there is another incident of a California company doing a recall of green leaf lettuce in cello packs. They fear possible contamination from irrigation water.
Glad I have plenty of greens growing in my garden.

I planted a row a week ago - popping up now.
I always thought the bagged produce was too expensive - by the open produce and wash. A salad spinner makes fast work of the drying.

Years ago, I bought a bag of mixed greens - had a kitchen in the hotel room. Found wilted, old "stuff" in the bag. Tossed it. Bought some fresh produce next day.

Reminds me that I need to get some cool weather greens in the ground! Thanks.