General Topic thread- Lithophytes- the meaning of "bulb"

This, folks is where I'd like to start a topic of bulbs. I will attempt not to get to carried away, as bulbs are one of my favorite things.

What are your favorites? Which ones did the Deer eat? Which get stolen by passersby without fail every year? Which ones are your favorite or do best for you? Which did you order? Notice any themes developing in your tastes for them? Any you hate? What is on your mind as you wait in line at Denver Botanical's fall bulb sale?
Any dreams for your bulb future? Combinations you'd like to see in your garden?

K. James

Fritilaria gentneri, picture from the Universty of Hawaii. My lust lies in its tesselated whimsy...

I am very cautious on the subject of bulbs because I grew up and began gardening in New Orleans where bulbs are tricky. The more traditional ones, like tulips, had to be refrigerated for something like 6 weeks before planting which also had to occur at a certain time or they wouldn't work at all. Then you had to dig them up and store them in ladies stockings in order to save them for next year! I decided bulbs were way too exotic.
Now that I live in New Mexico, I am beginning to discover bulbs. Asiatic lilies are glorious hear and I hear that LA Hybrids are even better, but I haven't tried them yet. Oriental lilies are great one year but, here at least, decline each year thereafter. I have decided not to grow them any more.
Daffodils, Narcissus and tulips do well here, but I can't get over thinking tulips are too fussy. So far I don't have any.
This year I will try various kinds of Fritilaria, muscari latifolium, Chionodoxa luciliae, and Scilla siberica. I think the biggest obstacle to having all gardeners take over their names is the fact that they don't have common names, or the common names are not generally known.
I love amarylis, but grow it in pots in indoors in the winter and put it out in the summer.
I love iris, which are very easy to grow here in the semi-arid Southwest. And they are so easy to grow. They don't mind lousy soil, lack of water, and wind in the spring. And they come in a multitude of colors. Now I know that, strictly speaking Irises grow from rhizomes, not bulbs. Perhaps we need to clarify what is a bulb and what is not.
Are lilies of the vally pips bulbs? Probably not technically, but perhaps our group might include them. Same question for daylilies. Those plants may act like bulbs, but I doubt that botanically they are bulbs.
Actually I love tulips, daffodils, narcissus, and all the traditional bulbs. I just have to remember that they aren't necessarily a pain to grow in my climate.

"Bulb" colloquially is taken to mean anything swollen the plant has underground that persists through a dormant season.
Lily-of-the-valley, Convallaria, is a rhizome, I believe.

Different kinds of "bulbs:"
Corms- are swollen stems, technically. Like Glads and Crocosmia and Crocus and Freesia.
Rhizomes- are longer stems that are usually moving horizontally. Bearded Iris, Ginger, Cannas, Giant White Calla Lily. Most waterlilies. Sometimes Bananas, too, I think.
True Bulbs are swollen bases of leaves. Tulips, Narcissus, Amaryllis, Onions. They have obvious layers.
Tubers Usually refering to tuberous roots. But true tubers are swollen below-stem bits that I can't quite explain. Colored Calla Lilies, Caladiums, Eranthis, Anemone coronaria.
Tuberous Roots Actual roots are swollen around the lower stem section- Dahlias, Eremurus, Daylilies (which are at the same tome rhizomatous!) and Spider plants.
Someone correct me on my examples if I'm wrong. I think there is some conflict on what is a tuber or corm. Maybe a tuberous corm? I'd rather they stick any swollen stem that doesn't so sideways (like a rhizome) in the "corm." With the above description, a "corm" gets a leaf-tunic around it, and a "tuber" is without any covering.

My story: I'm a bulb nut. They have nice substance. Tulipa and Fritillaria focus. I like testing different little bulbs, since so many seem to do well in the RMs.

So far, my only real failure was Leucocoryne. Both potted and grounded, planted early failed. They just sat and didn't root. From B&B, I should have called and asked them...

I have always been a fan of Iris. especially the dark ones. I am not a fan of the day lilies but my DW is so I love them. Hee Hee. The favorite of my bulbs is the Asiatic White lilly called Casablanca. It causes my garden and anything within 100yds to smell like a tropical forest. I just have to work too hard to keep them going.

Your iris are magnificent, Soferdig,
Especially the ones in your photo. Would those be Dusty Challenger by any chance? They sure look like it. A neighbor down the street had some and I must have bought 20 dark blue iris before I finally found the cultivar, which I, too, now have.
I think your Casablanca lilies are Oriental not Asiatic. Sounds dumb, but there is a big difference. I am not sure what Orientals want, but it isn't the same thing as Asiatics. My Asiatics come back year after year. My orientals are great for a year or two and then shrink into oblivion. Probably they need more food and water than I am giving them. Or maybe they want acid soil? My good friend who is a major lily enthusiast has the same problem. I also can't seem to grow speciousum rubrum. I recently read that it wants acid soil. No wonder.
But I agree Casablanca and all of the Orientals are magnificent in appearance and fragrance. But I love Asiatics as well! They come in many colors and grow very nicely here and tolerate abuse. I plant a few more each year. I get what I call "used" lilies from a friend who is in the business of raising lilies for florists. The bulbs can only be used once so all of his friends get crates of perfectly good lilies. I have two crates of red that I have to put in this fall -- or not. Asiatics will simply bloom in the crate if you water them.
Not only is your iris beautiful, the foto is fantastic -- much nicer than the Dusky
Challenger photo I took. But I am only just learning photography since I joined DG. I am getting better.

Isn't that glorious? What a great color.
And I think L. speciosum rubra is an oriental...
I haven't found any hard data, but heat and alkalinity are the factors I hear about slowing the orientals. But a friend of mine has some established and HUGE 'Stargazer' in a pot, so that suggests that the soil is wrong. They may suffer from a general chemistry stress here.

Pity, because I love 'Dizzy.'

Soferdig,
Oops! I meant to send you the other picture of Dusky Challenger which is slightly better. Here it is.
Maybe yours is darker than mine! Hmmm.

Yes you are right. I have not gotten the names under my photos and yet have to learn the names of all of the 1500 new plants in the last 4 years.

A mystery we will probably never solve. But yours are magnificent. I try to keep the iris labeled but have failed rather a lot.

Kenton I dated a few "dizzies" but never for a second time. The Iris "Dizzy" looks beautiful! Just think if you had crossed that one and knew it was your own. It reminds me of passing a stomach tube down a cow and seeing all the papilla on the tongue. LOL
This is a varigate Iris I have. Flowers are minimal but you can color them up with other plants. Here is some diathanus.

Funny, that' what that lily reminded me of too- pictures of papilliae.

I have received two early-shipping bulb orders thus far. Anyone else?
K

I received a shipment last week of bulbs from Park Seed. Im expecting another shipment from Breck's (yes I know about them from the Garden Watchdog, but I couldn't resist the $25 off for every $25 ordered coupon). They sent me an email the same day that I received my order from Park stating that they had shipped them. Well lo and behold they had shipped them but its going to take til the middle of October for them to get here from Holland (according to Brecks). So all that back breaking work getting the beds ready will eventually pay off. Its been so long since I ordered from Brecks, I actually forgot what I ordered lol.
Mid October here means that the snow might actually be flying.

Lillyz

I haven't ordered any bulbs (other than lilies and iris) but did purchase,locally, Scilla siberica, muscari latifolial, chionodoxa luciliae -- all little early spring bulbs which I plan to sprinkle all over my yard -- where there is soil. The rest I am hoping to purchase at the sale at the Denver Botanic Gardens. I also have quite a few lily-of-the valley pips coming soon. I am hoping they work this time. If not, I may give up on them for New Mexico.

We will be sure to enable you at the sale! I have already ordered & planted most of my bulbs. I am still looking for a few "pretties" to put in the rose beds though.

greenjay, do you always plant this early? I'm fairly new to bulbs and have been planting them in late October to keep them from coming up. Is that wrong?

I planted some lily of the valley plants these past couple of weeks, but they've turned brown and flopped over. I can only hope that they'll get it together and come up next spring. I also have some more lily pips to plant.

Maybe come winter I'll have time to unpack. After planting and harvesting is done.

You can plant them until the ground freezes. I planted mine early because I have a schedule that is partly dependent on other people (home owner's assn.) and their budgeting priorities. The current project (rose garden & vicinity) had to get "finished" before I start on the next proposed project, and I need to do a progress report thursday for the HOA mtg.

I'd forgotten about HOA "politics." Guess I'm doing ok, then. All I have to contend with is DH's reaction when I tell him how much I spent. LOL I don't think I'm planting as many bulbs next spring as I did this. I'm down to more like 210 rather than the 300+ I put in this spring. A more workable number. Tulips, daffodils, grape hyacints, iris reticulata, and lilies. Of course the ordering season is still young!

Hyger. I'm sure your Lily-of the-vally will grow in spring. When I moved mine, that is what happened.
Judith; If bulbs have been properly treated (not frozen in shipping, stored wring...), they will not come up in the fall. But even nature can trick them- I and a client have some Narcissus coming up now. Some things benefit from early planting- like Galanthus and Frittilaria, since they are vulnerable when out of ground, and some root early.
And Judith- Ordering season is indeed young- B&B has their half-off sale (!!!) after thanksgiving. Mass planting time there.

I've planted bulbs in late December, but I had to dig four inches through frozen ground (which is extremely time consuming, you can guess) and plant in the unfrozen bit before it got too cold exposed ot air. I watered them with room-temp water and put the frozen bit back on, then mulched deeply. I was amazed to see them come up and bloom perfectly in spring. But I don't suggest it!

GreenJ, I am so sorry for you; you must be a patient and forgiving soul to deal with HOA. If we had one, I couldn't get away with my driveway compost piles, unfinished ratty beds, weeds, unmown and sick grass, vines eating everything, and poisonous plants!

Has anyone planted bulbs in their lawn/turf?

Kenton

I had some bulbs planted in my lawn at my rental property and every time I cut the grass I felt like a murderer. They were tulip bulbs! who would do that but someone who never planned on mowing. Now that I have my 10mph Dixie Chopper I won't even know what I mowed over. LOL

HOA politics are a funny thing. Just this week, I have had to deal with the murderous herbicide-spraying thugs we pay to mow the lawns and descrate the shrubbery, children riding their dirt bikes through the rose garden, negotiating (!) with the aforementioned demonic landscaping company to have the leaves and shredded shrubbery deposited in a location shortly to become a Stealth Compost Pile (TM), winey people who want me to be their personal gardener, and Woolley Aphids in the crabapple trees (YEECH!).

I also had a lot of fun planting > 200 bulbs with my pre-adolescent "crew" of "helpers" who wanted to poke the bulbs in the holes for me. Apparently they don't teach basic biology in the schools around here, since the kids hadn't ever seen a worm and thought Daddy Long Legs would bite(!).

Who are these children?
"Stealth Compost Pile (TM)": I hope you make millions on your patent (Hilarious).
Extra-double-super patient soul.

These children are the unattended children of my neighbors who roam the property like extras from "Lord of the Flies" and get into all kinds of trouble if not otherwise occupied. Officially, I can't put them to work, but since they follow me around anyways sometimes I "let" them help if they ask nicely and nothing dangerous is involved. Planting tulips is a good example. This has been an excellent opportunity to get some insight on WHY they are roaming around getting into trouble, and to learn names and their parents names and where exactly do they live. Now, if I catch one of them messing around with sprinkler heads, or hauling landscape rocks into the middle of the lawn, etc. I can warn them, by name, and give them my "teacher look", and if necessary speak to the parent involved.

Aforementioned children are also much more likely to rat out their friends when one of them does something horrendous, like the boys who stole some vodka, got drunk, and used the rose garden for a dirtbike extravaganza last friday. They were 6 and 12. The 6 year old ratted out his older brother because the other kids persuaded him that he would go to jail if he didn't. I didn't have to do or say anything, just listen.

greenjay,
That's what we call community. If the parents don't teach the kids, and they may have tried, someone else comes along and helps. Dirt bikes and vodka in the rose garden is a scary thought on several levels. Children learn from the community as well as their parents.

From what I hear and read aboout HOA am sure glad I live out in the sticks and don't have to contend with it.

I have only one bag of WalMart purple & white tulip bulbs to plant this fall. Because of upcoming surgery I know I won't be up to digging and bending until pretty much too late to plant. So will just look forward to the blooms of previously planted bulbs. Next year I want to plant more Fritillarias.

Good luck and bloom to all of you planting bulbs.

Donna

Good luck with your purple and whites, and good luck, too, with the upcoming surgery. Hope it doesn't interfere too much with enjoying life!

You're in our thoughts and prayers, Donna.

6 and 12? Dirtbikes and vodka?
Wow. I'm not going to comment on the social implications on that in conjunction with an HOA- type place.
Well handled, GreenJ.

Yes, Donna,
You will definitely be in our thoughts and prayers until we hear that your surgery was a success.
I think you are very lucky to be living in the sticks! That is where I hope to live someday after my husband gets tired of the scientific life. In the meanwhile, I just ignore the prissy neighbors. Luckily, their children don't have dirtbikes, but I do find their booze bottles in my vacant lot fairly often.
The sticks are where its at for gardeners who can manage to live there.

The social implications are many, varied, and completely out of control. What I cannot figure out is how we have an abnormally high number of brain-addled boys with dirtbikes and skateboards and hardly any girls in the neighborhood. Highlands Ranch (just up the road) is famous for all of the multiple (twin, triplets, etc.) because so many of the soccer moms take fertility drugs. Are we just getting the Fertility Dregs here?

You never know. Or maybe its cosmic rays at your altitude? Actually, I guess there are cosmic rays everywhere. Maybe its the water? Who knows.

I'm not sure what to think about this.
Narcissus bulbocodium conspicuus
growing. Now.

A couple pluses with this house is that there's no HOA, and most of the people in this cul-de-sac are my age or older.

There are some rowdies that live in the apartments across the way, though. I actually called the cops on them once because they were staging drag races behind the supermarket at 3 in the morning. Aside from waking me up, I was afraid someone would get killed.

Sleep has become more and more important the older I get.

And I used to be able to party through the night. Sigh. Thirty years ago.

Kenton,
What I always say about such plants is that they are confused. Of course, that explains nothing. Betty

That's exactly what I say!

Or Cedrus atlantica glauca pendula. That is a confused tree!

Are you saying that because it weeps? I had to look it up. It is rather pretty, but clearly can get out of hand. It appears to be slow growing, though. I have a plain ole' juniper outside my livingroom window. It keeps expanding way too much and I would love to put something there that is evergreen, smaller, slower growing but that sticks up 6 or 7 ft. to block the view into my living room window by passers by. ( There is a wall but not quite tall enough to blook the view completely. A less agressive juniper would be just the trick. Or a tall skinny pine.
I don't want an arbor vitae because they are so formal looking. This might be just the plant for me. I have seen it in local nurseries and thought it was pretty cool looking.

I am also a "bulb nut" - especially if you count tall bearded irises among them. One of the joys of leaving zone 9b is like, pajaritomt, I can now grow other bulbs with success. (I'm not real fond of 8*F winters, but apparently the daffodils love them and the irises just ignore them). We arrived on our sand lot last year in Sept., so I didn't have time to put many bulbs out or really order any since we were in the Fall Tree Planting Mode - so about 100 walmart (or HD?) "king alfred type" daffs were stuck in the ground and about 50 were put in planters for forcing. My DH is happy that the garage fridge is no longer used for bulbs and can now be used for it's original purpose - beer :-) I also love daylilies, but the dogs ate them. All $50 worth. ...My nicely organized irises from Schreiners (and some probably dubiously named, but healthy ones from Walmart) all got rearranged by the dogs, but luckily, none were chewed extensively - the bed is now covered with 4 inch welded wire. Unfortunately, though the irises are now growing well again, we will not know who is who until summer when they bloom. Only a few of the ones from Schreiners retained their labels. I have tulips and daffs and I don't recall what on order from somewhere - and I have to have DH remind me every time I go to Walmart or HD or somewhere like that - actually, he has to sometimes physically restrain me. Must be pheromones in the bulbs or something that so attracts me, since DH says I can smell them from the other side of the store.

My worst enemies right now are the formerly cute and adorable looking chipmunks and large, 100 lbs canines. They chipmunks have somehow morphed into evil looking creatures. The canines redeem themselves by helping me win the war on rabbits only to do their own destruction...Nothing except dogs touched the daffodils. Tulips going in planters with chicken wire over the tops.

I am thinking if walmart/HD has bags of daffs on sale later in the season, I may get a few bags and just stash a hand full of bulbs here and there around the property and "forget them" and see what happens. Well, I guess I can't really totally forget them as they will need irrigation before the snow comes and after the snow melts, but it will be fun to see them popping up in little bunches among the sage brush skeletons.

Going to try daylilies again next year, but in welded wire protected raised beds.

Oh, bought 300+ crocus to tuck in among the (5) fruit trees in my "orchard".

Sand, though I've got a little too much of it in some areas, is still easier to amend and plant in than the California Adobe that I have left behind.

Once we have some density of (short) trees so that the ground is shaded, I'm going to start "woodland" bulbs among the pines. I figure, even though, at 5'1" I am taller than nearly all of the pines so far, at least I will have a woodland in miniature to enjoy (cornus going into the "woods" soon :-)

Love seeing every one's photos!

JamesCo,
Have you tried the Persian Frittilary yet? Did it grow well for you? I see the bulbs at our local store for about $8 each. But they are quite large.

Betty-
Tehy sell Cedrus where you are? These thigns show up in colder and colder places all teh time. I remember when zone 8 was as far north as one woudl see them. I saw them in St. Louis zone 5b or so. they have such delightfullyl classy small needles. Mmm.

Frit. persica. I've not personally grown it, but ordered it this year. I saw one at a care- abandoned church courtyard in Denver one late spring. The only lone plant, growing tall and sooty in the warm sun. I had not idea what it was then, but was stunned. Husbandry like Frit imperialis: Full sun (hot is good, too, I read), dry summer, planted sideways (to keep water from collecting in it's bulb- center.) Class 1 (of four) Frit, the most robust. Go for it, I say, we'll compare notes.

Karla, a particular 8F winter is a zone 7b winter, actually. But of course, that's not average... Poor you, You need a nice fenced-in (rabbit, dog, and gorilla fence) for your own gardening. Where you can grow everything you want to. And go for that woodland! Looking at what ol' Steve has done, you have tons of potential!

Kenton

I have seen something that looks like cedrus in nurseries here. I will check it out, of course. And thanks for the advice on Frit. Persica. I'll have to go back and indulge myself. Boy, have I indulged myself this year. Back and quads are tired, but haven't let me down yet. I am also taking a weight lifting class to strengthen the muscles not used in gardening which support the ones I need in gardening.

I thought gardening WAS a weight lifting class :-)

Have a lovely blue New Holland tractor with large (for tree planting) and small (for post hole digging) augers. We're ordering a pallet of concrete for delivery this weekend. Gorilla-proof fencing starting to commence now that the temps are down out of the tripple digits. Going tree hunting, too.

Weird weather follows me (or I follow it) - when I moved to Savannah, GA, it was the coldest winter in decades and it snowed enough so it stayed on the ground all day. The winter I moved to TX was one of the wettest around. Winter before last when we started moving here, we had the most snow in in something like 99 years... hey, seems like WATER follows me. THAT could be a good thing. ... 8*F winters - the locals laughed at me all bundled up - it's been a nice, mild winter. Apparently every few years we get cold enough to earn our 6b label - just to keep things interesting for the gardeners who like to push the zone thing, I'm guessing :-)

My van Engelen bulb order charged to my credit card and shipped today... good thing DH and I keep separate finances! Garlic came in the mail yesterday... irises recovering from their canine relocation experience and greening up nicely - it's a good day in the high desert :-) Gonna be a planting weekend in the (amended) sand (that will some day be soil)!