Help avoiding aphids this year?

This message was edited May 28, 2010 5:48 PM

It might...but I'd save your money.

If it's been empty all summer there are probably not many aphids in there as they've had nothing to live on.

When you move your plants into the g-house I'd suggest hosing them off good to remove any bugs/insects/etc. And, since they are perennials and not edibles you could dust the soil with a systemic pesticide (Dy-syston comes to mind, made by Hi-Yield). That will take care of aphids and many other pests.

If you prefer a more "organic" method then Safer's Soap sprayed on the aphids will zap them.

Also, keep an eye out for ants as they love to cohabit with aphids and will farm them.

Hope this is helpful!

Shoe.

This message was edited May 28, 2010 5:49 PM

Yep, the lemon tree will be fine if you use the Safer's Soap on it...but I wouldn't spray it when the lemon tree is in direct sun. (I bet it's a Meyor Lemon, eh!? Yummy!)

And yes on the tomatoes, I very seldom have witnessed aphids on the mater seedlings (and I grow hundreds of them each year).

By the way, the systemic you have that says don't use it but 3 times a year, perhaps that is because it lasts for 4 months at a time? But, regardless, I wouldn't use one untill I saw the need for it before my very eyes or if it was a plant well-known to attract pests (Brugmansias come to mind!).

Shoe.

Aphids seem to be exquisitely sensitive to soap spray. I would save my systemics for the tougher bugs like mealies and scale.

BTW, I learned the hard way that soap sprays with detergents are phytotoxic to tomatoes and now I use a soap spray made from baby shampoo.

SB

Thanks for pointing that out, SB. I forget that many folks consider "soaps" to be of the same kinds. Soaps and "detergents" are quite different.

Shoe
(By the way, SB, I've been enjoying your info in the Greenhouse forum! Thanks!)

This message was edited May 28, 2010 5:49 PM

Yep...aphids love the greenhouse environment and it's like they come outta nowhere, eh!?

Sounds like you have a very powerful systemic...maybe it is gonna knock out all the generations of aphis in 6 weeks. That would sure be nice, eh?

Think you'd feel comfortable enough to use it, then after six weeks go to a soap spray if you see minor infestations? That might be a good compromise (regarding usage fo the systemic) and great overall resolution to your aphid problem.

By the way, the "moonflowers" you grew...were they "moonvines" (Ipomea/Calonyction family) or Datura? The reason I ask is my Brugs and Daturas are really bug magnets, especially for aphids. I got tired of growing them in the g-house 'cus they are so problematic for me.

Shoe

This message was edited May 28, 2010 5:50 PM

I don't think I'd use the soap spray that way (hosing down the g-house). It mainly is for use as a contact killer and kills by suffocating and also by breaking down the cuticle on bugs so they become dehydrated.

If all you have in there are aphids to deal with I'd just keep a close eye out and spray them asap. And also use the systemic. I bet a one-two punch like that will zap them pretty quick.

Shoe.

I have the same problem in the GH. I think the aphids thrive on the heat, and their natural predators don't. I have not tried soap spray, but have tryed pyola oil and sevin, and not much success with either. I grow my peppers in the GH and that seems to be the only place I have any problem with the aphids.

Do you make the soap spray yourself, or do you order it? I am interested in the baby shampoo based soap spray you are using, SB. I am a newbie to the GH, just had it built last year and used it the first time this year. Was wonderful starting my seedlings there, but I thought I could grow in there as well, maybe not??

I would grow my peppers outside, but we have high winds in the area and I can't seem to get them grown without the wind knocking the plants over. Even if I stake them triangularly, it seems the wind knows how they're staked and takes advantage of this! Shoe, would the one-two punch work on edible plants? I have never used a systemic pesticide, but it sounds toxic.

SF

SF, I just make it myself at the standard rate of the 2T generic version of Johnson's Baby Shampoo per gallon. I use Neem too, because I prefer the smell of the Neem to the smell of baby shampoo in the GH. They both work.

Another thing I do is take a couple of praying mantis egg cases into the greenhouse. They hatch out and help with some of the pests. Maybe that's why I did not have any aphids. You have to watch where you spray. Come December I can mail you a couple if you can't find any; we have tons of mantises.

SB

SF, no, I would never use a systemic on edible plants/food crops.

I've always grown from an 'organic' point of gardening and only tried systemics in the past year when I got more and more into growing/selling perennials, bedding plants, shrubs, etc. As for food crops I wouldn't dare use systemics.

And yes, you can make homemade soap sprays...baby shampoo (as SB suggested) or Ivory dish soap (not a detergent). However, the commercial Safer's soap is more concentrated and for small g-house applications will go a long way and is quite a good deal. Why not try your home-made recipes first and see how it works for you, eh?

As for natural predators in the g-house, ladybugs and their larvae as well as praying mantis love the heat! They'd jump right on those aphids!

Shoe.

I agree with Shoe...the only time I use systemics is on ornamentals (nonedibles) in containers. I don't use systemics on edibles nor do I use them on ornamentals in ground beds.

I did grow peppers all winter last year. It can be done without too much trouble.

Thanks for the tips. I did try releasing ladybugs and then lacewings on 3 occasions. They never stayed, and it is definitely not because there was not enough food for them. I assumed the predators did not like the heat as much as the aphids. I will try the soap next.

My thought for next year was to redo the inside of the GH so that I can have fold down table tops over planters on both sides. I could start the seedlings on the tables and then when they are all ready to transplant, I can fold the table tops out of the way and plant the peppers in the planters, and move everything else outside. But, I have to be able to get the aphids under control. I bought the ladybugs and the lacewings from Gardens Alive, along with their pyola oil spray. None of these things woked well or lived long. Any luck with a better source for next year for the lacewings and ladybugs?

I was also thinking about putting a few anoles in the GH, but I don't know if they will eat aphids. I like the idea of the mantis. Will they stay in the GH if there is sufficient food for them? I am not sure where to look for the praying mantises. Our local GH/nursery supply stores don't seem to carry much of these things.

SF

This message was edited May 28, 2010 5:50 PM

SigFin, I'd take SB up on the offer of the praying mantis egg cases. Praying mantis (or mantids) are gonna be the same no matter where you get them from so I doubt your getting them from Gardens Alive was a factor in them leaving/staying.

Your fold up tables sound like a good idea to me. Anything you can do to make your ghouse more versatile will sure be helpful!

woofie, Safer's Soap (and other Safer's products) are usually available at garden centers/nurseries, Home Depot/Lowe's stores.

Shoe

Pyola is what I use from gardensalive.com. It's a plant based insecticide with canola oil in it. Takes care of everything and doesn't react negatively with the polycarbonate walls like other stuff does and doesn't kill the anoles and skinks. It stops spider mites and aphids in their tracks. I keep a spray bottle mixed up in the greenhouse and spray on demand and even for the heck of it sometimes

I'm in the process of moving everything out of the greenhouse now. Once it's empty it will get washed down, inside and out with 409/fantastick then rinsed with water. All cracks and crevices inside and out gets swabbed with cheap lavender oil, it discourages ants and I repeat once a month. Everything that goes back into the greenhouse gets sprayed to dripping point and allowed to dry with Pyola. The only recurring problem I have in winter are those darn ants. I can keep them under control but not totally get rid of them.

X

Shoe, thanks. I will take SB up on the Mantids. SB, how do we connect? I am pretty new to Dave's Garden, been a member for almost a year but never checked in until recently, and wishing I had much sooner. I'd have had a much more healthy garden this summer!

X, I had some initial success with the Pyola, but as the summer went on, the aphids weren't affected by it. In fact, they were throwing little aphid parties, complete with their own disc jockey, seemingly every time I sprayed. I had a gallon of the stuff and it was from last year and was stored outside in the empty and unheated GH all winter. Nothing on the label about protecting from freeze. I wonder if it went bad? It did look promising. I am going to try the shampoo spray today, now that I have a day off.

SF

It probably did go bad since there are no preservatives in it .. I keep my concentrate in a cool dark place. You must have really tough aphids .. lets hope they don't declare statehood! The pyola works great for me .. really good on whiteflies too.

X

Hehehe..."throwing aphid parties, complete with DJ"....I can just see it! *grin!

Yep, your pyola may have gone bad. As for tough aphids, it's pretty well-known that "peach aphids" need a harsher spanking than other types of aphids..I wonder if that is what kind you are dealing with, Sigfin.

I've often added alcohol (rubbing alcohol) to my Safer's Soap spray for certain bugs. The alcohol helps to break down their 'skin' and allow the soap to penetrate. Perhaps that is something you may want to try sometime.

Shoe.

This message was edited May 28, 2010 5:51 PM

Thought For The Day:
"Always tip your waiter; always Q-tip your aphids!"

Hah!...sounds like you were having the time of your life, Woofie!

Shoe

For those of you who want to stay organic I suggest "Poison-Free" from Victor. They make a flying insect version and an ant and roach version. Both of them have mint oil as the active ingredient. I find it wonderful for killing aphids as well as the ants that farm them. It is a contact spray so you have to be more vigilant, but in my greenhouse it seems the mint stays awhile and really confuses the ants. Have been using it for several years and it hasn't burned any plants I have sprayed yet. I get mine at the local True Value hardware but I have also seen it in some other garden centers.. They also have a web site www.victorpest.com

This message was edited May 28, 2010 5:51 PM

Woofie, I LOVE your solution, but I'll substitute a nice cold glass of White wine, make that 2!

I love the discussion of aphids in greenhouses. I've had my GH for 6 yrs now and am still trying to find new ways to deal with aphids, and now scale and mealybugs that are actually much worse than aphids if you can believe that. The first 2 years I did the soap thing, since I'm totally organic for pesticides (not fertilizers) in the GH. Who needs to toxify yourself while enjoying your plants? Anyway, it worked but was a LOT of work to wash off the little parties from new growth nearly every weekend. Then I tried ladybugs, which worked but not that great. Last 2 years I switched to green lacewing cell packs to be delivered every month from Dec to Apr. It worked quite well, but I must say they are expensive and a pain to distribute-- and they are not that good for scale or mealybugs. I am wondering this year if I should try a pyrethrum fogger or 4 before releasing the lacewings? My thought is to do a fogger each week after I bring the plants in, then begin with the lacewings. Anybody have thoughts on that? By the way, I tried the praying mantises, and while they are great to watch, they ate my ladybugs and never touched the slow moving aphids. They are tough on tomato hornworms though! Ugly but gardener satisfying killing it was too...

I bought the safer soap. It worked WONDERFULLY. Wish I would have used it this summer. I think I got all the aphids now under control. I guess I need to write Garden's Alive about the entire gallon of their product which was no good.!!!!

I treid alternatively releasing lacewings and spraying. The lacewings did not do well at all that way. They seem to be fragile in the GH. Even the ones which are supposed to do well in the GH.

As I am trying to keep it as natural as possible I am going to try the Mantids. Its always something!

That white wine was great by the way! Fortunately, none made it onto the plants, so I cannot answer in that regard if it worked well. I have to admit, after the 2nd glass, the aphids were not so much of a problem. I don't think they had changed any, but I had!!

Cheers. SF

Congrats!

Safer's Soap usually does a great job for me! Glad you got rid of those pesky aphids.
Glad you got to have wine sampling, too!

Shoe.

I hate to sound stupid, but what is meant by

I have never had aphids before and I think I might have some and where we have moved to has ants everywhere. So I'm wondering what that means.

Jesse

Howdy Neighbor/Jesse...

Ants tend to "work" some types of aphids. What they do is move them around to different plants because the aphids will secrete a "honey-dew" and the ants harvest it from them as part of their food source.

Ants have shown that they also take aphids down into their anthills to milk their honeydew later on as well as to have a source of aphids to work the following year.

Darwin kept records of ants/aphids; he even tried to milk the honeydew from aphids like ants do but to no avail. Apparently the ever-so-slight touch the ants have can't be replicated by humans (or at least Darwin!) while milking the ants!

Shoe.

Ants farm scale and mealybugs, too.

This message was edited May 28, 2010 5:52 PM

Thanks for answering my question. I forgot to add this to my watch list and did not know it was answered until I went looking for it. I need to take precautions against those pesky ants. I really don't know what to do to get rid of them. I would love to spray around the bottom of the walls of the greenhouse but I did not know if it would harm the plants. Is there a safe spray to use inside that will not harm the plants? Also, I have crickets and spiders inside too and would love to spray to get rid of them as well. I hate spiders and crickets, but I sort of freak out with the spider thing. The less of them the better.

Thanks,
Jesse

Hi Ya'll I have just become a member and I was reading all of your suggestions on aphids. I will have to try them also. I have a 10x12 gh this is the 2nd year ( or 1st year) i can say that I have used it the whole time. Last year we could not find the right heater and I am not so sure about this one. Gas is killing me. But anyway I am having problems with aphids also, so I will try some of your methods to see how well they work for me. Thanks for all the info friends!!!!

Gatorlady look up the thread on heaters by Etravian and myself. He gives some good advice on how to vent the vent free heaters. I noticed that gas odor was gone afterwards.

Stressbaby will your formula work on spidermites as well as on aphids? I have a very small amount of both in my greenhouse. I've been using Sevin but would prefer to save the chemicals for more serious problems.

MollyD

Horseshoe, you said:

Actually, that's quite far from the truth. There are more than 2000 different species of Mantids. =)

Mantids aren't really a good choice for controlling aphids in a greenhouse, IMO. They don't just go on a "feeding frenzy", eating every bug in sight. They stalk. They wait patiently, waiting for their prey to come close enough, then they strike. All the while, the aphids are on a feeding frenzy all over your plants. ;) You can't just add more preying mantis, either. They're territorial. They're also cannibalisitc. They also won't differentiate between the "bad" bugs, and other beneficial insects you may have in the greenhouse, such as lady beetles. If it gets too close, it dies. The mantis would be more likely to stalk a fly in your greenhouse, than waste the energy on an aphid.

If you want aphids gone, and I mean gone, and want to do it only "naturally", then seek out the aphid midge (Aphidoletes aphidimyza). They'll kill more aphids than they'll be able to eat, so you may end up sweeping up some carcasses. =)

There are some very cool species of preying mantis, that would be great conversation pieces in a greenhouse. And, sure, they'd do *some* good. But, they'd be way down my list of insects to introduce for anything other than a complimentary role. Lady beetles would be a much better choice, if the midges aren't available.

HTH,
Eggs

(sorry if these were already mentioned, and I missed it. I only skimmed the replies.)

Thanks, Eggs!

I love "bug talk" (or insect talk). And it's true, I had no idea whatsoever there were that many kinds of mantids. Zowie! (Makes me wanna go look up and see what particular type(s) we have here in the Southeast.)

Shoe

This may help: http://www.herper.com/insects/namantids.html

Yay!!! What a great site!

Loads of info.

Thanks!! Gonna save that one!

Shoe