Ginkgo 'Spring Grove'

Someone long ago asked about the growth rate. I'd say 4" for the year?

Near me is the stump of a gingko that is more than 4 ft in diameter. The legend is that the tree was planted by a teacher who brought it from China where she was a missionary between 1850 and 1870. Some idiot connected with the County Highway Department cut down the tree. The stump is sending out shoots that I have tried to propagate--so far not successfully.

...and here is the oh-so-bluetiful Ginkgo 'Liquor Store'......and Dax, it's STILL growing, and not hardening off yet.

WOW! it is bluetiful! Are you rescueing these? How do you come by them?
Is there another part to this thread that I missed? I LOVE gingkos. There was a whole grove of them on my way to school when I was a graduate student at the University of Kentucky at Lexington. What an experience to walk through a grove of falling golden gingko leaves in the fall. One of my peak life experiences I think.

Great to hear the fond reminiscences of the UK campus, the way it used to be. With all the new construction going on, I wonder if the ginkgos are still there.

Were you a Shawneetown resident, or Cooperstown? Or maybe you lived over around the Euclid Avenue neighborhood, and walked under the row of trees near Rose Lane and the Newman Center?

I invested in the UK experience twice; first time in engineering, and trees were just for shade or climbing. My learning curve then was exceedingly slow. I passed a ginkgo everyday (next to Memorial Coliseum) on the way to Anderson Hall. Every fall, I'd wonder what "foule excremente" I'd stepped in as I sat down to my 8 a.m. thermodynamics or extractive metallurgy class. Only years later as a horticulturist did I appreciate that it was a fine female ginkgo specimen that was blessing me with her bounty as I strolled beneath.

I vaguely remember the Newman Center. I graduated from UK in 1975. I guess my memories now are historic. When I first went to Kentucky I lived in a ? motel. (Left side of the main street facing downtown from the campus). There were cages of baboons in the court yard. Later I rented a private house with 2 roommates several blocks from the other side of the campus. Thats where the Gingkos were. I majored in anthropology and taught undergraduate classes as a graduate student. Any ideas on how to propagate these sprouts from an ancient gingko?

So you were a bit ahead of me; I started (first time) in fall '79. Wasn't the Yocum Motor Lodge (on the corner of S. Limestone and Waller Avenue, across from the College of Agriculture), was it? Those cages housed frat boys after a weekend of revelry (likely Delta Tau Deltas).

If you rented over in the Chevy Chase/Ashland Park neighborhood, there's a street there where both sides are lined with ginkgos. Absolutely fabulous in the fall. It's not far from Ashland, the Henry Clay estate, and the street is aptly named...Catalpa Road.

For propagation, give conifers a shout. Or Lucky_P. They are both grafting fools, and would be able to give the lowdown on when to collect the wood. Lucky even has AL roots, and still gets down that way. Maybe he'll be interested in linking up with you to evaluate the situation.

Those Gingkos sound like the ones I remember! From Baboons to frat boys. Now that's what I call evolution.

You'll need to graft to get a "duplicate" of the Ginkgo you're trying to propagate as rootings, which won't ever work. Grafting is it. You'll of course need Ginkgo seedlings and wood that has at least a heel of hardwood. No semi-hard, no softwood; You're grafting hardwood to hardwood. If you don't have a greenhouse and want to graft them in summer, do it starting the middle of July through the middle to late of August of each year. After the graft 'carpentry' has become completed (no wax is needed for summer grafting) - simply bag the entire thing, pot and plant in a white garbage bag and place them under flourescent lighting and they should make up in about 10 days or 2 weeks or a bit more. 10 days is right about on the money though. Also, I need to mention that the seedling you'll leave most of the leaves on, however, on your "cutting" which is actually called a scion, take some scissors and cut every leaf off to leave only the petiole on your scion. The petiole left should be about an inch long or so. You'll know if the graft took when the petiole turn black and after it falls off. At this point a "new" bud has emerged from under that petiole (I'll post a photo of a completed summer deciduous graft). If the petiole doesn't turn black and fall off but rather the scion turns black either at the graft union or anywhere else along the bark or blackens around the petioles - the graft has not been successful:)

If you know nothing of grafting - heres a link for you - even though conifers are being grafted, follow the same procedure.

If you have a greenhouse that can be kept cool in the summer (mine I cannot) - (below 80 degrees) - all the better yet. The plants still need to be bagged however. If you graft in winter then the process is a bit different. Everything is the same technically. The seedlings are first brought in and you wait until the plant breaks bud (not fully so all the leaves are exposed) but when the leaves are just beginning to unfold - that's when you NEED to do the carpentry. If you have a block of Ginkgo seedlings - when 2/3 show bud break, GRAFT ALL OF THEM including those that aren't showing signs of life yet. Also you'll need to coat the budding strip with grafting wax, however this time, you do not bag them! The attached scion will show signs of growth (if successful) months after. Also bottom heat should be used for winter but not for summer! Very important.

Here's a photo of a summer Maple Graft (note the buds are present and have emerged from under the petiole - which has fallen off just to expose the buds which will break next spring.

Also, I forgot to mention - keep the seedlings almost bone dry for the summer grafting and also keep them almost bone dry once again for the following 24 days after. 'Just enough water to keep them alive'. Then, you can water the heck out of them for the rest of the year.

Also the link:
http://www.coenosium.com/text399/spring,1.htm
Take care - a lot of information and good luck!

Dax

conifers: thanks for the seminar in grafting. have not done it --yet. Maybe this gingko will be the challenge I need to do it. The shoots did not root, either in water or soil. I have a greenhouse, but no environmental controls yet. Hope to have mist by next summer. And shade cloth. Ill have to round up some gingko seedlings. Maybe there are some at the arboretum in Tuscaloosa. Good excuse to go visit those folks anyway.

Yep - take care. Lots of seedlings under a friends tree around here if you don't find any:)

Dax

conifers: I notice the scion in the link above does not have a heel or any old wood. Is that what I want even though with a chisel, I could get a good piece of the original tree. Last time I looked, the shoots were about 18" long, and they are growing directly from the original tree trunk. Would those shoots around the bottom of the trunk be better than the ones growing further up? The stump is about 3 ft high.

Wll gloria the hardwood is what goes under the budding strip/rubber band. I used hardwood. And you ask good questions. I already knew a sucker would be huge on an old tree, therefore, you still need a heel of hardwood 'plus a very honking huge seedling to graft that thing too.' It's all relative if you think of everything I've written already.

Other things you need to do is on your seedling - go 'only' about 1/4" into the wood while you create that 'flap'. Don't go any further. Plus you want to be sure that the scion is lined up well with "cambium to cambium". If you can't match both sides up, i.e. - your flap you created is larger in diameter than the scion's diameter, then just be sure that you're lining up at least one side meaning, that the cambium on your scion is touching at or on the cambium of that cut you made into your understock. Understanding that when I say, "one side" - that you are understanding that 'on that "flap"' you've lined up green on your scion to green on the flap - and if your cut was 100% perfect, the diameter's of both the scion and flap cut are of same width. But, however like I said, in a not so perfect world - line up at least one side "perfectly" and don't worry all that much about the other side as all it takes is part of the scion to knit and become the new plant. As you can also see on that photo, the understock (seedling) still remains. Next spring though, after those buds break - you need to with pruners cut off the understock directly above the scion. Also, for several years you'll need to keep these tender grafts out of full sun. Just be sure you don't forget to remove the understock, however - that's of course important as all the other steps you've already done to make it this far.

I's not as complicated as it seems, I try to tell people. The last time I wrote about grafting someone said, 'but I just can't see myself cutting into a perfectly healthy seedling', well person, you ain't gonna graft then. So re-read all this. And still and I should have mentioned this prior, (if anyone wants to become a grafter), 'purchase' Bob Fincham's grafting DVD or Video and you'll get most everything you'll need to know from that video. It can be purchased at his website for 'Coenosium Gardens'.

It's a great video, and the only one I know of. He covers a lot of information.

Take care -

Dax

Hi Gloria, I was waiting for a more authoritative individual to weigh in, in this thread,but here is my two cents worth.Ginko will root from cuttings. Michael Dirr says they are easily rooted, in his book, The Reference Manual of Woody Plant Propagation. You can check out a copy at your library and it will give you full instructions. I have rooted Ginko cuttings in late summer in styrofoam cups,50% peat- perlite rooting media,rooting hormone, plastic bag tent over them, and a spray bottle to myst them. No temperature controll. I kept them out of direct sun untill rooted, and kept them from freezing the first winter,Good LUck

Try 10 days of "softwood" then (the tip of cutting).

Place in a plastic box (sealed and covered) in shade to semi-shade or under fluroescent lighting, remove the bottom leaves, cut back in half any large ones (leaves transpire moisture).
Use 4-6 inch pieces.

Heck, I may even give this a try.

Take care,

Dax

I wonder how Keven 5 came by "Liquor Store" and the green ginkgo in the photos above? Since I dont have any seedling ginkoes, Ill try tree planter's suggestion. Im also working on some fig cuttings from an abandoned farm.

I rescue dogs, now trees. I hope I will be successful.

Yah, Kevin's 'Liquor Store' is a seedling from a Ginkgo tree located on the property of a liquor store. Just a random act of nature. Sorry for butting in Kevin.

Dax

I found this web site called "The Ginkgo Pages", www.xs4all.nl/~kwanten/propagation htm. The author suggests cuttings can be started in December (i.e. hardwood method). There is a extensive discussion of seed propagation, and why the seeds smell.

Man am I all over the place! I'm outta this one!

Cheers though!

Dax

Kevin,
Please put my name down on the waiting list for your 'Liquor Store Bluefringe'® Ginkgo (:o). When does the tree go into commercial production? Soon, I hope!!! Hopefully, the tree is male, but who cares with those wonderful leaves?
Thanks,
Mike
(Why can't I ever find really cool trees like that?)

My knife is being sharpened as we speak!

Good luck with your cuttings folks. Still never heard of anyone rooting Ginkgo's but I guess it's possible.

See ya all,

Dax

Dax: Thanks for your help. Ive been thinking about grafting some stuff for a long time and you edged me further in that direction. Your instructions were the most meaningful Ive seen to date.

Kevin: Me too for the bluetiful ginkgo.

So Dirr has a new book - with very explicit instructions for ~1000 species - he even discusses rooting Acer palmatum. Just heard of it today.

Dirr and Heuser's 'Reference Manual for Woody Plant Propagation':

Might be worth at the very minimum a library trip!

Dax

Dax--your scions are on the way--you already have two customers lined up!

Gene Coffman, Ridge Road Nursery in Bellevue Iowa has rooted Ginkgo--I bought a little Chase Manhattan from him years ago. He uses a Nearing(?) cold frame to root everything and has really good success with most things. I think even he was surprised with the Ginkgo though.

No, it's not a new book; actually, I believe that the book is now out-of-print so it will be difficult to locate if you want to purchase the book.
Mike

I've emailed my counterpart and asked for guidance - (sent you a dmail too Kevin) - I think I'll also email this other guy who has Dirr's book and check out the Ginkgo info as well. Grafting isn't an option at this time FYI for you all.

Thanks a lot though Kevin, I'll get this cleaned up soon.

Mike - thanks for the kickback!

Later,

Dax

Come on Dax, give it a whirl! They are Ginkgo Trees after all--they do amazing things. It's only been the last week that it hardened up.

Dax, yes, please try to graft Kevin's Bluebeard, the Drunk® Ginkgo. (:o) I would love to try that tree in my yard. I should be able to find something to send you, in trade...

Kevin,
If you're seriously going to send Dax scions, please take the scions from the highest part of the tree that you are able. (I'll send something to you, too, Kevin!)
Thanks,
Mike

We're good to go fellas.

(I can graft them now).

Dax

Mike--they are boxed and gone. It's only a 5' tall plant, with a very strong central leader, so I had to take the lower branches. I hope they work!

Interestingly, I went by the mother the other day(wine tasting at the store!), and got a good look before I partook(is that a word?). Plain green, typical Ginkgo leaves, but the whole tree has great form. I have given babies to others, and I saw one of those seedlings the other day as well. Blue and fringed just like mine.

I just got the scions. I'll have to graft them tomorrow however as I'm drying my understock media as we speak.

Also got to get a good edge on my knife, which I'm working on right now.

Thanks a lot Kevin!

Dax

Dax:

For future reference--shipped OK? Wrap job ok? Cut too long, too short, or just right?

Perfect in every aspect - however my seedlings are only 8 inches tall or so but have 3/16 or 1/4 inch caliper so doesn't matter. I'll make it work.

I'm getting a better knife in two days so even though I got my old one pretty darn sharp (can shave hairs off me own arm - but with a little more effort than I'd like) - I'll just wait till the other knife shows up. Then the potting media is just drenched and we can't have that, so all in all, things will work out perfectly if I'm to wait.

We're good to go though Kevin.

Thanks again,

Dax

I'll report the results in 10 to 14 days. I got 12 from the wood, one green (semi-hardwood/softwood grafted to semi-hardwood), a couple that are iffy (scionwood was thicker than the seedling), but I hope we get real good numbers!

See ya,

Dax

Hi everyone,

All 12 grafted successfully, however next spring when and if they decide to push is the real test.

Kevin - I'll send you a D-mail.

Dax

That's great news, Dax! Keep us posted...
Thanks,
Mike

Good Job Dax! Way to go! Have you any photos you can share? Maybe close ups of the actual grafts?

I can take some sure.

Be back in a few. (Cleaning cones today for seed)...

Dax

The group:

Now after I got my hands in them, I forgot that they were drenched in fungicide so I got that crud all over my hands so I only photographed a couple.

Here's some close ups. First with the bud strip then without: