is this a friend or foe?

I posted this on the bug forum also...I hope it is not a bad guy...it is very colorful.

That's no bug - it's a spider!

i posted there also because i was hoping someone would be able to identify it....just incase i did not get a response here.

i did get a response for anyone who is interested...thanks claypa for the info....
"That's a black and yellow Argiope, Argiope aurantia
edited to say it is female, the males are tiny. the little zig-zag part of the web is made by the male. They eat flying insects, so I'd say it's on our side."

This message was edited Aug 13, 2006 6:26 PM

the only two "bad-guy" spiders that i know of are brown recluse and black widow. there are probably more, but these two are the most familiar to people. the "garden" spiders are always the good guys and always welcome in my garden. it's funny because i just took a picture of this same spider because i love the web. hope you don't mind that i post it here. the smaller male was there too, but i couldn't get a picture of both together.

great picture, trackinsand! I am glad to know that this is not a foe..it is a little intimidating looking. hubby wanted to spray it with raid but i told him we should live and let live as long as it is not poisonous...i read that the egg sack has like 1400 little ones in it...can you imagine??? last night, i am pretty sure i saw her spinning up her mate and today he is gone so i am not sure what i will do if i find an egg sack. spiders make me a bit squeemish and the thought of having 1400 of these in my flowers...well...let's NOT think about that!!!! hahahaha :-)

don't forget that out of that 1400 only a few will make it to adulthood. there are a thousand hungry mouths out there, including other spiders. the garden spiders are a particular fascination for me. if they have a really cool web going and it's attached to something i need to move, well, i just wait or else try to re-attach the piece i had to break. i am heartless with a lot of bugs in the garden, but not these guys. you check out that web and you will see all kinds of the bad bugs in there. your picture is great too! now we have a common bond, even if it's a spider. LOL i'll never remember the true name though! i call them all "hey, little guy".

That is a "scribbler" of the writing spider type. We have hundreds of them here. Now and then one will catch and wrap a hummingbird. Also have seen Pygmy Shrews wrapped up for eating. e seems to be on every 10 feet in the cattails around my big pond, and a lot scattered all over. They catch lots of skeeters, and eat them with their web at night.
The scribbles keep large birds from flying through the web and destroying it.

Have you ever seen one wrap a hummingbird? You - personally?

wow!! that's crazy about the hummers!!! it rained yesterday like crazy so I will check today when I come home from work to see if my little writing spider has re-made her web.

I have seen two already wrapped, none during the process. I have seen the wraping of cicadas, and it is very quick.

It is truly amazing that a hummingbird, travelling as fast as they do, with the ability to go forward, backward, up and down, and yes, even fly upside down, couldn't evade or get out af a spider web. Additionally, the venom from a spider will paralyze an insect, but it doesn't paralyze other animals. Hurt, maybe. But, trois, if you saw it, I have to believe it.....

Some of these webs are very strong. I can easily see how they could get trapped by the web. The number of times I have had to pluck my hat from one makes me a respector of their strength. I am sure that most do evade the webs as they are very visible, but very young birds that we see every fall could easily make a mistake. In the fall the spiders are at their maximum size.
I also have seen them subdue pygmy shrews that are probably stronger than hummers. This is one that jumped from our pier into the web because of my walking up. The shrew was completely wrapped by the time I could get my camera on and focused.

But that shrew is a lot smaller than a hummer..... Very interesting.

Our hummers are smaller than the pygmy shrews. I can see how their wings would get tangled up in the web of that type of spider.

And it isn't just the web. That spider is on top of whatever hits the web in a flash, holding on and adding more web.

What I meant to say is the pigmy shrew in that photo is smaller than the spider! This site says they are 80-91 mm, with 1/3 of that being tail. That would make them 2 inches in body length with a one inch tail. The B & Y Argiope spider is 3/4 - 1 1/8 inches.
http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Sorex_hoyi.html

I don't think hummers can be smaller than the B & Y Argiope. That would be mighty small. The Black & Yellow Argiope measure 3/4 - 1 1/8 inches.Our ruby throats are much bigger than that. They measure 3 - 3 3/4 inches. The smallest hummer is the Bee Hummingbird of Cuba at 2 1/2 inches.

You know - hummers make their nests of spiders' webs and small plant fibers. (The ruby throat then attaches lichens to it for camouflage.) That allows the nest to stretch as the babies grow. So they know their way around spider webs. I wonder if these are young, inexperienced hummers? Sorry - I am still having a hard time grasping this.

How much of that is feathers? How did they find such small spiders? How old was the shrew?

interesting topic....while i find it hard to believe that a hummingbird would get tangled up like that in a web i guess anything is possible. it would be interesting to pose this question to the rest of dave's garden and see if anyone else has any info to offer. poor little hummers!!!

HANG ON!

Spiders DO kill and eat Hummingbirds!!!! Have been for a while:
elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Condor/files/issues/v053n01/p0049-p0049.pdf

So do Praying Mantids!

So do Frogs!

So do Fish!

Keep your CAT indoors!!! They kill a bunch of them!!!!

http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/humm/HummerBeware.html
http://www.hummingbirdsociety.org/hottopics/predators.asp

AND THEN!!!

"Hornets and yellow jacket wasps have been known to prey upon hummingbirds as well. This is particularly true of nestlings, which are easier prey than the adults are. The praying mantis has also been observed taking hummingbirds. Snakes and lizards have been known to capture hummingbirds, too. Here in the southwest, roadrunners are a threat to hummers. Sally Spofford, of Portal, Arizona has provided reports of roadrunner attacks on Black-chinned hummingbirds. Several reports from New Mexico also demonstrated the roadrunner's taste for both hummers and their nests.

Spider webs are noted as fatal attractions to hummingbirds. In their quest for a favorite food, baby spiders, hummingbirds sometimes get caught in the web of a spider. One observer noted: "In its struggle to free itself from the spider web it called frequently, attracting another Anna's which hovered nearby." For forty minutes it tried to free itself, all the while becoming further entangled and showing increasing signs of exhaustion. The observer then cut the hummer from the spider web and released it.

Mid-air collisions with bees and wasps sometimes result with the insects impaled on the hummer's beak. If the hummer cannot quickly get the insect off, the insect may dry in place and prevent the hummer from being able to open its mandibles to feed. "

I'm going fishing now. See ya!
Mark

Also Google "hummingbirds caught by spiders" and there are a number items.

If they eat beautiful little hummingbirds, how can they be good guys?

A coworker had to spend some time in the hospital recently because of a spider bite. They don't know what kind it was, but she had to stay for several days, and they had to put a stent (is that the right word?) into the wound to drain the pus out. She's back at work, but she's still weak and sick from it. And apparently she didn't get a full dose of the poison.

That's what I was worried about with my spider infestation, that I would wake up with a poisonous spider bite. Or worse, that one of my kitties would be bitten and might die before I could wake up and rush him to the emergency vet.

I could look up pictures of brown recluse bites if anyone wants. They're pretty gruesome.

Well, of course we have to eliminate brown recluse and black widows from our surroundings. Too dangerous. But garden spiders feed on insects, and I personally think that all the hype given to other possible creatures finding their way into webs is far less frequent than suggested, although very spectacular. The Internet has a way of making an incident seem much more than it is. I don't trust much of what I read on the Internet (and hardly anything that comes in email forwards) unless it comes from a recognizable source - usually an educational institution, and even they get things wrong. I tend to be very skeptical. As you can see! LOL

I wonder how that pygmy shrew made its way up to that spider web, since they dig in the ground and use underground tunnels of other animals to find their prey. Just wondering.... No, I've never lived in Missouri.

Most of the ones I have seen here are dead from drowning after a heavy rain. I have seen several, maybe 3 or so, eating spiders. This one I saw on the railing of my pier and I think he was stalking the spider. I think my appearance startled him into making a bad jump into the web. This time the spider won. I frequently see the shrews early mornings and after sundown climbing around in the cattails, I presume looking for food.

Good info, trois. Thanks.

i didn't say i did NOT believe it, just that it was hard for me to believe. i guess i always look at my hummers as being so nimble and quck and all that....i guess it is all a part of nature. thanks to everyone who shared their thoughts.

I had one of these spiders last year. I was SO excited! It was the coolest spider I ever had in my garden.

One morning I went out & didn't see her in her usual spot on her web. The web was there, intact - but no sign of the Mrs.

I looked around & discovered her about 4 pots away on one of my canna plants. I looked closer & spotted her egg sac!

Pics to follow...

Here's Mama & her egg sac.

The sac is about an inch across. The web threads holding it are different from the regular web thread. They are stiffer. They hold the sac suspended between the leaves. When the wind blows, these threads keep the sac from being blown against the plant it's attached to, and possibly being damaged. (Isn't nature amazing?)

I usually over-winter the canna (in its pot) in my mother's basement. However, because of the egg sac, I decided to sacrifice the canna & see what happens.

Here's a closeup of the egg sac. The outer coating is sort of papery - like dried leaves.

Here's the egg sac surrounded with what's left of my canna.
I had surrounded the entire pot with some fencing to protect the sac from predators.
This was taken May 8th of this year. I didn't know it at the time, but I think when I took this shot, the spiders may have already hatched. On May 17th I discovered....

next post - BABY SPIDERS!

very cool pictures!

Here are the babies!
They were on the other side of the yard from where the egg sac was! About 15+ feet away!
If disturbed (i.e. gentle blowing), they'd bunch up together in a tight ball.
I guess that's how they were inside the sac. It made them feel safe, I guess.

Here they are, all bunched up.
It sort of made me think of how the covered wagons would make a circle.
The ones on the outside would make the sacrafice if necessary.

Later on - late June or so - I spotted a couple around the yard. They weren't full size -maybe "teenagers". LOL!
I couldn't get a clear picture of any of them.
I've been keeping an eye out for them but haven't seen them since.

Maybe one will show up later. I didn't discover last year's until about this time of the year, so who knows.

Nancy

BTW - I still have the egg sac. It's papery thin & much lighter in color. It's a light tan.
I put it in one of those clear plastic bug boxes. The daughter of a friend brought it to school for show & tell.

The girls thought it was gross. The boys thought it was "neat-o" and decided she was pretty cool... for a girl.
LOL!

Nancy

This message was edited Aug 18, 2006 5:06 PM

gabagoo. Neat pictures. There are so many predators that prey on the babies, both inside and out of the egg sac, that very few actually make it to adulthood. I am always thrilled when I see some adults the next year.
This is my very most favorite spider!

When I found the spider last year I did a little research on it.
On one site I read where sometimes other insects insert their eggs in the sac. (spider food?)
It went on to say that an egg sac was opened and was found to have 34 other species in it! 34!! Can you imagine?
I've been looking around but I haven't spotted any adults.

Nancy

wow! great pictures...you have a good camera. the funny thing is that I went to check on my spider today and she is no where to be found. the web is there and coincidentally right behind my butterfly weed where the web is I have a bunch of cannas growing...so now you've got me wondering.....hmmm. i might have to nose around a little.

the picture i took was also in the cannas.......hmmmmmm.

Well, rats! I've already chopped down my cannas! Really, it just depends on what the web is near. The ones I found in the garden were in a juniper. Web was nearby. The 'pet" we had on the deck wasn't near shrubs, and the egg sacs hung from the edge of her web.

Hi,

Had to join in as I've never grown cannas, but last year we had quite a few of these spiders in among the tomato plants. As the season progressed, some moved to the other side of the garden where some herbs were blossoming. The blossoms attracted a great many wasps and other flying insects and the spiders found a good hunting ground there.

So far this year I haven't seen even one of them in the garden, but last week I spotted a web with both the female and the tiny male spider over in my Jerusalem artichokes. I'm glad that there's at least one of them still in the area.