New Methods

Hi all,

I haven't been in a situation where I could grow things from seed in 20+ years. I now have a great place, have acquired many seeds and want to set up a system. Things have changed so much in those years. I'm intrigued with using plug trays, the use of hydrogen peroxide, heating mats, the new grow lights, and all the other new improved equipment and methods (I forgot to mention wintersowing). I've been doing a lot of research but thought someone who has a great system that they love might point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance for your input.

Get yourself some really good lights. I struggled for years with makeshift lights, but this year DH surprised me with this (Charley's Greenhouse):

http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/index.cfm?page=_productdetails&productid=5305&learnmore=1#lmore


I can get 2 weeks of growth in one week with the lights set to 1" from the top of the flat. It has made a huge difference in the kind of seeds I am starting these days.

Wow, you lucky thing. That looks awesome. I want one! Not in the budget though at the moment. I know the lighting will be a prime consideration for me though. It'd probably be smart to just invest in something like this, wouldn't it? See, I'm talking myself into already, lol. Thanks for the link.

Aside from the obvious kudos to DH for knowing exactly what I wanted, it was really really smart financially. Buying seeds or multiplying cuttings is WAY cheaper than buying stuff even with a discount. I have 50 rose cuttings under lights right now, that were obtained from an old ranch property west of where I live. I probably will only need about 50% of them, the rest I can trade for other neat stuff. I don't even want to contemplate what 50 antique roses would cost in a catalog order!

I rigged up something similar myself for not too much money--doesn't look nearly as nice but it works! I bought cheap wire shelf units at Target, then bought cheap (~$10) fluorescent lights from Home Depot or Lowes, then I used twisty ties to suspend the lights from the shelves. Bought a few heat mats and a few seedling trays and I was ready to go! The heat mats were by far the biggest expense of the whole project. Unfortunately I can't offer a picture--I dissassembled it to move and haven't put it back together yet.

You only NEED the lights from about Nov. to Feb .
Cheap way
1. bottom heat - Xmas lites in a box plastic box with tray /box / container on top with seeds / plants .
2 lights - a cheap under counter fluorescence light , light from fish tank or a 4 ft shop lite [ the shop light will eat bulbs - lucky to last a year ]
3 , Timer for lights - Xmas tree timer - plants want / need 12 to 16 hours of light a day .
4 . bottom water - put water in plastic tray / box / container and let the water go in the bottom of whatever the seeds plants are in . After 15 to 30 minutes of soaking , use a turkey baster to remove extra water .
5 . The dirt - potting soil - seed starting mix is better on dry side than wet . touch the dirt - potting soil - seed starting mix with your finger - if finger is wet - to much water .
6 . Go a hardware store [ not a big box store IE - home depot , lowes , etc ] Orchard supply , Ace , True value -Ask for a seed starting sheet - they will give you one . stop buy the seed rack - read back of packages . If the seeds are on sale [ .10 -.20 ] buy a package or 2 of different types and play with them .
7 . Keep checking here for tips and ask questions - don't be embarrassed - you will probably never meet the person who answers .
8 . Take the answers that make sense to you - if they don't make sense ask more questions if only one answer . If question isn't answered - go to a different forum and ask again .

This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 7:43 AM

I drink bottled water at work, and save the plastic bottles. DH cuts them down for me, pokes holes in the bottom, and I use them as containers for rooting cuttings. The transparent plastic lets me see the root development, and they are easy to keep sterilized.

Oh goody, some ideas. I'm already saving plastic bottles for just this purpose (have hoya and hydragea cuttings started in two). tonyjr, your setup is very intriguing. I'm not sure I get the gist of the xmas lights; are you saying leave the lights in their box and they will generate enough heat to warm the seed flat sitting on top of it? And the other part that I wasn't positive what you meant: "let the water go into...." - so you have a plastic tray into which you pour water which is under the seed tray - and then when they've absorbed enough you suction off the excess? BTW, I don't do big box stores (never been in a Walmart in my life). And Cambria has not one chain store. Not one. All independent, even the grocery. Well, that's not totally true, there's a Chevron and Shell in town, if you count those as stores. At any rate the hardware store is wonderful and I'm sure he'll help me get the things I need.

More suggestions please, I'm all ears. And keep in mind that I'm particularly interesting in new methods - better soil mixes that have been developed, etc. You know, all the new tricks. I'll check back.

don't know if the xmas lights contribute much light, but certainly the plants will be in a good mood...

The best method I have found for germinating seeds that need cold stratification is Norm Deno's "Outdoor Treatment." This is his baggie method except that you put the baggies out in a shed or garage during the winter so that they get temperature fluctuation. I started 75+ species this way last year. The hardest part was having the space for everything that germinated. I recommend this to anyone. It saves space - I had all my seeds in one small box - you don't risk any predation or damage, you can check everything in a minute, and you only plant what germinates. All except 3-4 species germinated with this method, and those were DOA. The biggest problem I had was having enough space after I put the germinated seeds in celltrays. Btw, Deno's book on seed germination is expensive, but it is worth having. He has trialed thousands of seeds and kept track of how they germinated best.

I also have a makeshift grow-light setup that is made from wire rack shelves on casters with shoplights hung from little chains. This works very well indeed and is much cheaper than a "real" setup. I got both the wire rack and the shoplights from Lowe's. The lights last at least a year for me. I need bottom heat only for a small number of seeds at a time and just use an old heating pad.

Those are wonderful suggestions, thanks paracelsus. I'll probably invest in the book - sounds like a wealth of information. See, I'm so out of touch with the new methods I didn't even know what the "baggie method" was. And the wire rack and shop lights w/heating pad also sound doable. Do you have pictures?

Amazon lists his book as Out of Print:

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0897213378/sr=1-11/qid=1155748169/ref=sr_1_11/701-6524185-0150730?ie=UTF8&s=books

I might try this source:

"One of the best sources of information on using MegaGro to stimulate seed germination is Seed Germination, Theory and Practice, available for $20.00 postpaid worldwide from the author: Dr. Norman C. Deno, 139 Lenor Dr., State College, PA 16801 USA. The book is available for $20.00 directly from the author. It contains a wealth of information on thousands of species and is a great resource."

http://theseedsite.co.uk/normdeno.html

I found this.

Answer - sorry so long .
I'm not sure I get the gist of the xmas lights; are you saying leave the lights in their box and they will generate enough heat to warm the seed flat sitting on top of it?
--Yes , the lites will raise the temp .
And the other part that I wasn't positive what you meant: "let the water go into...." - so you have a plastic tray into which you pour water which is under the seed tray
-- yes , the water goes into the drain holes and will slowly rise up into the seed mix . Since watering from bottom , it is wetter there and roots will grow down to it . If you water from top , the top is wetter and roots go up looking for water .
- and then when they've absorbed enough you suction off the excess? -- Yes , but I drilled a hole about 3/4 of an inch above bottom of tray . After The water has been in long enough , I tilt tray so it runs out faster , then use turkey baster to remove what drains out of plants - about 10 minutes later . Then about 10 minutes later suck up again . I spend about an hour 2 or 3 times a week doing this watering other plants etc .
The cuttings that have rooted [ in one gallon pots ] go into a bucket with fertilizer in water for bottom watering then into an MT bucket to drain - I am up to 6 buckets - 3 for watering and 3 for draining . When done the water left is dumped on roses in yard .
I had a lot of Damping off this year and kept changing things .

Thanks Tony, all helpful info. What's an MT bucket?