Pine ID - help!

Hi Kman,

It could well be this, that prompted Farjon to include the species. I would assume he works on the principle that if a native plant becomes extinct in a region through human intervention, it should still be listed as native, so that any subsequent deliberate planting is classified as a reintroduction, rather than an introduction - and so that if/when these planted trees start reproducing, they are classified as re-establishment to be conserved, rather than invasive aliens to be removed.

Resin

Ok, I have the reply from the city and the tree is a Shore Pine, Pinus contorta var. contorta. Now I'm all embarrassed as I grew up with this tree in the woods but I've never seen one so full and healthy looking. I guess they can look this good with summer irrigation. Thanks everyone!

Resin, I find the possible logic behind Fargon's reasoning to be flawed. There is no scientifically accepted evidence, nor has there ever been, that any Pine was native in Kansas since European settlement. This very tenuous circumstantial evidence I don't think is enough to include it as being native. But if you want to go back a few thousand years, they've pulled out fully preserved Colorado Spruce, and some Pines(forgot which species) in a couple of different rock quarries in the state, especially one noted one near Wichita. I believe these have been dated to as recently as 4,000 years before present.

And I don't believe them ;-))



I'll ask next time I talk to him. I don't know that he was using that, just guessing; he may have other evidence.

Resin

Resin showed us a nice Pinus sylvestris. For comparison, here are two views of P. contorta var. contorta, taken along the coast in NW Oregon:

Here's one of mine of P. contorta subsp. contorta (it's a common plantation tree over here)

Now Guy, why aren't those nice pics of yours in PF under the subspecies? That's the typical form/look I am familiar with.

Resin, the city would have had to plant this one so it came from a nursery. I was surprised by it too. :-)

"I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."

Some of us discussed PF a year or so ago. I gave permission for DG to copy any of my web album photos they wanted over to PF, but due to my slow connection I just don't have time to load them all again myself. Anyone who is willing to do some of that, please feel free. Just let me know if you do so, and keep my own copyright mark on them.

Resin's tree looks like my P. contorta var. latifolia, wild-collected in Colorado. Makes one wonder all the more about "Nature vs. Nurture."

Guy S.

Hi Guy - could be something to do with the ones in UK plantations being on better-drained soils than they grow on naturally. The ones in my photo are planted on old colliery spoil - stony, free-draining.

Resin

And they're also out of the Pacific wind, which probably works wonders. Most of them I've seen have been just above the beach, in sharply draining sand. But Growin grew up with them so I defer to his observations about wild specimens.
Guy S.

On Galiano Island they can be found everywhere and that's where I spent my summers growing up. The island is primarily sandstone. Near the beach the tree grew in any crevice in the sandstone with absolute drainage. I mean the soil would shrink in summer. They looked rough by the end of summer but would perk up come the rains. They seemed to like a sandy point down the beach from our cabin and grew better in this spot. On the mailand I see them in parks growing on rock faces but Guys pics are most definitely "typical" of coastal plants (var. contorta). I've never seen such a lush one as the one in my pic so I guess it can be quite a nice plant in cultivation. I think that "windswept" look may be from summer drought so trees are a bit stunted looking.

Here's a pic of a somewhat similar Scots Pine in someone's garden not far from where I live

Resin