tadpoles in grandson's swimming pool

Hi all -
Our 2 year old grandson came to visit and had a grand time in his little wading pool. We left it out on the porch for our dogs to enjoy and I didn't think much about it. Today I see about a zillion tadpoles. I'm so happy to have them but don't know what to do for them (if anything), other than make sure they have a way out when they turn into frogs... or toads. Should I feed them? Some fairy moss like I give my goldfish? Should I try to move them to the upper part of my little pond (where there are no fish..)..? Put some water celery plants or something in to keep them company?
Any suggestions welcome!

Hi Georgia,
I can answer that since I'm raising my own brood after a T.S. Alberto came by. I put an aerator in cause the frogs layed their eggs in a 160 gallon tank I intended for koi quarantine. Anyway, food. I wilt a bag of fresh spinach and 1/2 cup of water in the microwave for 3 minutes, let cool, and in the food processor it goes. Chop finely. I feed about an ounce (shot glass full) of the spinach twice a day. I also change their water about once a week. Don't forget to add aquarium dechlorinating drops with the water changes.
I cover mine with screen to keep water-bugs out. Good luck. I'll check back with you, soon.

Quick Question, Irish

It sounds as if you have been feeding your tads and like they have been growing just fine. But it would also seem to me that 3 minutes is actually cooking the spinach, in which case it would lose a great deal of its food value? But if the tads are growing, then obviously what you are doing is working.

When I used to try to raise tads, I did fine right up until it came time for them to turn into frogs or toads, and then they'd die. It seemed that was a crutial period for them, and I just wasn't doing the right thing to bring them through it.

CJ

Thanks for the advice, Irish. Some more questions..
Do you think Fairy Moss (which we feed our fish) would work as well as spinach? We have tons of it.

How do you manage water changes? We're on a well, so chlorine is no problem, but I don't know how I would get those tiny little things relocated while I changed the water. I do use a mosquito dunk, btw.

I think I'm gonna move some of them to a part of my fish pond where the fish can't get to them. Wouldn'f that be a good thing? The water quality in the pond is great and it's a lot more "natural" than this little wading pond.

Any idea how long it will take for them to change into frogs? We had a successful batch of toads one year and it took about a month in all. I don't think these are toads, but don't know for sure. We have had greenfrogs and leopard frogs and we're in the woods so I know we have lots of treefrogs.

Please keep your advice a'coming!

this is really cool, GJ, can you take pics and post them?

gram

I don't see why fairy moss wouldn't work. Just keep an eye on them. I found out the hard way when the tadpoles aren't getting enough to eat, they will cannibalize the smaller ones. As far as the spinach goes, I was buying the family size bags. The microwave seamed to steam the spinach more then "cook" it. I would keep turning the spinach into the hot water, (after the three minutes are up) till it wilts to my liking. Then add some ice cubes to stop the process in it's tracks. BTW, I've learned and am learning by trial and error. I have to, seems the word got out in my local frog/toad community a couple dozen or so have gather around my home. And I know EXACTLY what their up to!
If a pond is available to you, I believe that would be much better then a tank or kiddie pool, and you can skip the water changes! I have a number of aquariums and a use a siphoning hose the attaches to a faucet or a garden hose. Ironically, I just change their water last night right before I responded to your post.
It can take anywhere from a couple weeks to 18 months (some bull frogs) depending on the species, to go through the change from tadpole to frog/toad.
I believe I have a mixture of frogs and/or toads. Some of my tadpoles are quite large, most medium or small. Yet I have already released two frogs, while most still have no signs of buds or legs at all. Last night I did notice a couple of the larger tadpole had back legs. I do know the process seem to occur quickly(about a week) once the change begins. I'll try to get some photos to post for tomorrow.

OK gram, you asked for them :-)
They're about 1/4", including tail...

At least a thousand..
The entire wading pool is populated to this extent.

The big picture.
I created a little mini-ecosystem for them.. for now at least.

But I will be relocating part of the population to different more-or-less protected areas of my little pond.

thanks for the pics..that is the neatest thing. are you feeding them your fairy moss? most people would have just dumped out the pool. good for you!!

Lack of oxygen is the leading cause of death in tads. My son lost his to lack of exygen and we had crocodile tears here for a while. You might want to consider adding a very small whisper air pump with a very long air stone. Not a good idea to get a large air pump as excessive aeration can stress them. Looks as if you have quite a life load on that pool. Lucky you.

A little thoroughly rinsed sand on the bottom of that kiddie pool might be something your babies might like. Tadpoles love to forage around in sand looking for microbials. Yum yum. If you choose to add sand, be sure to rinse the sand thoroughly before you add it to your pond. I do this in a bucket and keep swishing it around until it runs clear.

Frisbees work well to provide cover as well as to provide them with an area to get out of the water and rest which they will need sooner or later. I don't know what you have there but tree frogs will be able to climb the sides of that pool but ground frogs can't and those types of frogs will need a way to get out of their nice cozy home.

You can boil lettuce and feed it to them too.

A heritage biologist came out to my property a while ago shortly after my first batch of tads was delivered and suggested that I do more frequent water changes given I was raising my babies in a small area also. I checked into it and found that rain water was best but given I didn't have enough rain barrels I was going to need to set aside tap water for a few days to do the water changes to eliminate chlorine which is not a problem you have. I stepped up my water changes to 50% every 3 days. Tadpoles have gills and need really clean water. If you have copper pipes in your house, best to use rain water.

Your babies are absolutely beautiful GeorgiaJo. So glad they ended up in your grandson's kiddie pool.

Update ---(pix to follow)
It is now approx 2 weeks since I first saw the tads. I moved some anacharia, fairy moss, water celery and algae into their little pool and they took to it all right away. So, no need for spinach or lettuce or anything. Then, when they were about a week old, I started giving them some goldfish food (small high-quality pellets from my local pond-supply store - not quite 1/4 inch). They loved it, sometimes two or three would push one pellet around and around (look like little tugboats). Also around that time, I moved some to the upper, unpopulated part of my little goldfish pond. I saw at least one go over the falls (whether into a goldfish mouth or the nearby cover, I don't yet know), but some of them did just great. Grew twice as fast as the pool-tads, thanks to lots of yummy algae. The other tads I left alone in the kiddie pool, but I did put a battery operated airstone in with them since I happened to have one on hand.
Then I got busy with work and stuff. Eventually, a few days ago, (not quite 2 weeks since the beginning), I decided to move some more to the fishpond, but wanted to test the water first to be safe. As usual, my pond water is perfect (sorry... sometimes ya just gotta brag!). 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, ph of 7 or so.. Then, since I had the chemicals out, I tested the tadpole-pool water.. Not too bad, but a slight amt of ammonia. So it was time for some improvements.
Now I have two fairly wide but shallow totes on our back deck where they spawned. We can watch them from the kitchen table and I see them as I type. Nice fresh well water (really deep, really good) and a pail or so of pond water (with all those great bacteria). I also have a smaller mini-environment for some on our screened side porch where I can see them without stooping They are 4 times the size they were. I'll post some pix to prove it. Most are at least an inch (including tail).. and I see from my earlier posts that they were only 1/4 inch at first.
I think these are toads of some kind (how wonderful!). But we fostered a pondful of American Toads once, and those seemed darker. These are lighter in color... and have speckles and stuff. I'l going to post some closeups on some amphibian sites and see if I can get a better ID, But here's what I'm talking about! This closeup was from about a week ago (roughly 7-10 days since first sighting).

This is soooo COOL!

Here they were at about a week. Munching on a piece of 1/4" fishfood.

oops - wrong photo.
This is the one where they pushed the pellets around.

Also at one week. Right after I gave them some water plants to munch.

Now, that's what you call "chowin' down".

Equilibrium, I certainly will send the pix to the expert you suggest. Thanks so much. I'm pretty sure they're toads, but.... not American toads.
As to the eggs - that's what really confounds me. You see, I do know what American Toad eggs look like. I took tons of photos when they used our fishpond a couple of years ago. But, I never saw any strands of black pearls this time. And I had only recently (maybe a week) hosed out the wading pool. The pool itself sits on our back deck partially under an umbrella, and we walk past it all the time. So, somehow, in about a week, we went from clean water (which I hoped the dogs could enjoy) to the tadpole eruption.
I so much appreciate your interest!
jo

American Toad (Bufo americanus) eggs are laid in strings. It's sort of hard to describe to you but they are laid in a double strand and they are sort of mucousy (sp?). I don't think you have American Toads there because the timing is way off. They would have morphed back no later than early summer. I don't know what you have because I don't see well enough to take a stab at it but I have a suspicion which is why I sort of tossed those e-mails out to you hoping you would be interested in trying to get a positive ID before they morphed and took off for bluer pastures.

You're a good toad mommy what ever they end up being!

this is just great! those are some lucky tadpoles to have landed in your wading pool, Jo. thanks for the update.

gram

Here's their new home (well, most of them anyway).

I have uploaded more pix to my Tadpoles album on shutterfly. Would love feedback (you can leave me comments right there on shutterfly or here).

http://natureathome.shutterfly.com

jo

I LOVE your floating planter over at your shutterfly site! I caught that little islander in the middle of that planter too!

Hi Equil - you must have looked at my Green Frog album. Thanks so much for taking the time. Yes, that green frog (and a friend or two) hung around our little fishpond for an entire season a coupla years ago. Just loved to pose.

I'm gonna post some of my American Toad pictures to Shutterfly soon (they have free unlimited storage!). Will let you know when I've done so. These are pretty amazing - the entire life cycle - beginning with the time I first noticed what seemed to be a two-headed toad swimming around :-)

Also - have contacted the people at U of Fla. Hope they can help because I have looked at every resource I can find on the internet and still am not sure what these little critters are.
jo

Ah, the old two-headed toad act. My kids have commented about that before. I just told them they were "one" only for as long as it took for the male to fertilize and that he'd be off for bluer waters.

If you can, please keep posting close ups of those tads as they grow. I think collectively we should be able to figure it out ourselves sooner or later if nobody responds to your inquiries. You do realize you can call into that department and beg for help. If you want to get a real quick response, tell them you think you might have Cane Toad tads (Bufo marinus) in your kiddie pool and you'd love for somebody to confirm that before they morph and take off into neighboring yards where there are pets and children.

Here's a link of frogs and toads that are indigenous to Georgia with the addition of the Cuban Tree Frog and Greenhouse Frog (Eleutherodactylus planirostris) which have now made their way into your State-
http://wwknapp.home.mindspring.com/GAFrog.Toad.html
I looked at the list and I don't think any were missed.

Pay particular attention to the Cuban Tree Frog (Osteopilus septentrionalis) photos at the above link. That introduced species breeds in late spring and summer.

Here's a little blurb that may be of interest to you-
http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Publications/ZooGoer/2005/3/amphibiansidebar.cfm

Photo of a Cuban Tree Frog tadpole-
http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov/tadpole/ostsepb.htm

Here's a tutorial guide to tadpoles-
http://www.pwrc.usgs.gov/tadpole/

Beware, after looking at the photos for a while they will all start looking alike ;) Hopefully somebody will respond to your e-mail and give you a positive ID.

Equil - thanks for those links. I had already been to most of those sites and had thought that the Cuban Tree Frog tad seemed closest. But, given the geography, I doubted it (and still hope they're not).

Anyway, since you also seem to suspect this as a possibility, I sent some pix to the GA Dept of Natural Resources (their material requests any suspected populations in GA be reported to them). So, between the GA and Fla experts, somebody is bound to respond...

Golly - I sure hope I don't have to massacre all my little ones... But, I would if necessary.
jo :(

Paulding Co is pretty far north in Georgia so at first I sort of discounted the possibility myself but then I did a little poking around for records as to the advancement of the species and it has expanded its range into central and eastern Georgia as of a few years ago so I started thinking hmmm, is it possible? To me, the tads truly are starting to look alike right about now so who the heck knows what they are. I wouldn't waste them until somebody provides a positive ID. If you've got a toxic critter on your hands that could potentially hurt someone's little kid or a pet, I'd have to admit that I'd destroy them in a heart beat too. I've had some experience in Florida working with people controlling and managing Cane Toads so I am unfortunately more than familiar with the consequences of not wasting them. Sad.

Equil - I haven't heard back from either of the experts, but still keep researching.. and pondering. At this point, I think they're either Cuban Tree Frogs or (hopefully) Narrow-mouthed toads.
The color and initial shape favores the CTFs, but color is probably not a very good identifier for amphibians because it can vary so much. Also, we would have had to have had at least two individuals (duh) to make these babies because I know the pool had clear water with no vegetation just a few days earlier.
Now, the Narrow-mouthed toads are native here, although i've never seen one (but they are pretty small). These taddies do look a bit flat from the top, I guess. And they definitely have a pointed snout. Also, one of the sites said that they lay eggs after a big rain (which we finally had) and that the eggs are just laid on top of the water and hatch in two days. And they do lay eggs as late as September, so the calendar fits. But the most positive sign is when I looked at all those pictures of the mouth-parts for different tadpoles. The narrow-mouthed toad is really very similar to my little guys in that respect (see enlargement, if it comes out ok). Very different from the others.
They're still growing a bit but seem to have slowed down... hopefully will be starting to grow legs soon and we'll get a better view.
As always - I appreciate your (and others') insight.
jo

here are some mouthpiece pix...
http://fisc.er.usgs.gov/c1258_Dodd/html/tadpoles.html

Excellent website GeorgiaJo! Great detective work!

Color is certainly highly variable in some species however I think the patterning is a tad (no pun intended) off,

I can't find any images of Gastrophryne carolinensis in which tadpoles are exhibiting that mottled camoflauge paint job.

http://gruagach.home.mindspring.com/tadpoles/gastrophryne.carolinensis.t.jpg

Have you reached the point where they are all starting to look alike yet? I say it's time to wait it out or try plan B! Are you game to send out an e-mail asking in the subject line if the photos you have are of the Cane Toad and if not what are they? That ought to get every one's attention. Tee he.

If all goes well, you will have scads of very tiny frogs or toads---probably toads---hopping all about your yard one day soon. I have them all over the place. They are no more than 1/2" long, and some have been only about 1/4" long. I have wondered what they find to eat...?

Hi CJ - We had the same experience with American Toads a few years ago. They looked like tiny crickets when they left the pond. Fortunately, we're still in the almost-country with lots of forest and other vegetation, so I suspect they found lots of smaller critters to eat!

Equil - you're a hoot. I DID put "possible Cuban Tree Frog" in the subject line I sent to the guy at the Georgia Natural Resources Dept.. but if neither he nor the folks in Florida respond by next week, I might try the "possible cane toad" strategy. I don't think they are, of course - do you?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong.... If these do happen to turn out to be Cuban Tree Frogs (altho I still cannot imagine how since we are in the far nw corner of GA, almost in the mtns), won't they just all die during the winter? If so, I can just let it be (as a wise man once said).

Thanks as always - jo (still holding out hope that these are narrow-mouthed toads....)

Unfortunately, a lot of these people are from universities. I know our computers have sophisticated filters on them that almost reduce the e-mail we get to that which has no attachments and no anything. I am beginning to wonder if anyone even received your e-mails because of the photos you either inserted or attached. I'm thinking maybe you should call a few people (anyone down that way who will pick up a phone) and then ask them to send a photo and how to get it through their security in an attachment. I totally never thought of that.

Regarding the Cuban Tree Frogs dying where you live, I dunno. There are microclimates every where as well as additional factors present which very well might ensure their survival. I could get sort of technical here on ya but I'd say the answer would be that there is a reason why your State is on the lookout for any possible sightings of this critter.

Plan B without photos! I say ask to send a photo and see whose attention you catch. I'm starting to think that it isn't that no one is answering you but more so that your e-mails just flat out aren't getting through.

oooh, everytime I see there's a new post, I hope you've gotten an answer. couldn't your local extension service at least give you a contact if they can't help? seems like if they want these things reported they should make a reporting mechanism available. most folks wouldn't go to this much trouble.

Great idea, Gram.. I'll start local with our County extension agent. And use the phone rather than email.

I did not yet have a chance to call extension service (had a real busy week at work.... the other life where I spend some 40+ hours :-(

However, am hoping that these new pix might rule out the cuban tree frog. I sure don't see any big pads on the feet, but am not sure whether these would be there yet.

Equil - you're right. They are starting to all look alike in some ways. But i'm hoping that you see more signs of Eastern Narrow-mouthed Toad in these pix, as I think I do.

thanks as always to you and others

for sizing

Looking more promising for Eastern Narrow-mouthed Toad in that photo! I'm not seeing a tan lateral line though but that may or may not be present.

One distinguishing characteristic of G. carolinensis is the fold of skin that runs across the head directly behind their eyes. This flap of skin can fold forward to remove insects that are attacking the eyes. Color varies depending on the habitat. They can range from light tan to brown, red, and even nearly black. They have a broad dark middorsal area with light strips that are commonly covered by patches, spots, and mottlings of dark or light pigment. The stomach is strongly mottled. They also lack a tympanum. The body of G. carolinensis is round with a narrow head that is sharp and pointed, and has a small mouth. There is sexual dimorphism in color. Males have a darkly pigmented throat whereas females do not. (Conant and Collins, 1998)

Tadpoles of G. carolinensis are black and have flecks of dark blue. They also may have a tan lateral line. The tailfins have dark specks on them, as well as dark tips (Bartlett, 1999).

Offer to send those photos to anyone who will take a look at them down your way. Those photos should be good enough quality for someone who deals with this species on a regular basis to be able to tell you what you've got there. I wouldn't wait long to get cracking on contacting a few people by phone. They're almost ready to fly the comfy coup.

from above