has anybody tried to train/shape their butterfly bush into standards? I know you can buy them that way, but was wondering how hard/easy it would be to shape it. I have a bush that has a strong leader branch, that I think could work.
Also, is there a problem trinning weaker branches right now? All they do is touch the ground and nobody can enjoy the flowers, butterflies included.
thanks for your help
Butterfly bush aka buddleia
I'm not sure what you mean training as a standard. I cut off these low branches for propagating and it hasn't harmed my butterfly bushes.
I think if you just cut off the lower branches and trim the upper ones to the shape you want you'll get it to something like a standard. Only problem is that these are fairly vigorous growers, so while I think you can make it more tree-like rather than shrub-like (I've seen some Buddleias here that look like trees!) I'm not sure you'll be able to keep the nice shape that most standards have (unless you prune it all the time, which is a lot of work plus you'll end up cutting off most of the blooms).
Ooooh! Black Knight is a good candidate. I left it unpruned this fall and it's looking like a shrubbish tree. If I cut off the bottom branches for a trunk, it would look just like a tree.
But like ecrane said, you'll have to keep ontop of it. Perhaps wrapping the trunk would help.
vossner, when you say "standard" do you actually mean a true lollipop shape? I don't think butterfly bushes would be disciplined enough for that to look right. But what I do with a group of old ones is keep 3 or 4 thick "trunks" as part of the permanent framework, I don't cut them down to the ground. When I prune I cut off everything else. As they grow I cut off everything sprouting from the trunks below a certain point, about 4 feet up. I do this continually throughout the season. This is so I can have a dappled shade garden underneath these "butterfly trees". Also, there is a view from the front porch through the trunks into the woods beyond. They do get a lot of suckers along them, but I like that look while the suckers are small. Above it all, the bushes grow exuberantly up, covered with blossoms, the lateral branches arching over and downward, creating part shade along the periphery of the underplanting.
thanks everyone for your responses. I wish I had googled my question as it appears there are many people that do this. I will definitely try next year. I really want to cut some lower branches now because I think they look messy, but unless somebody here says it's OK to do it now, I might leave them alone til early next year (oh, but is gonna be hard, lol).
Won't exactly be a lollypop tree, but close to it. I adore standards because you get an unusuall shape to something that's usually grown as a shrub and you get extra planting space underneath.
I have tree roses, tree lantanas, tree pencil cactus. My next project will be a topiary coleus, not exactly a tree, but close enough, certainly a non-conventional way of growing a coleus.
http://www.gardengatemagazine.com/extras/46buddlejastandard.php
Vossner,
I'm glad you bought this up. I am trying to learn to prune my buddleia and a lantana I just bought to look like trees.
I am confused about the buddleia though. In step 3 of the link you posted, it says:
"By the following spring, the leader may be tall enough that you can pinch off the tip to make it branch out and form the ascading head. You can train it to any height you want..."
How does this work when it dies back every year? Does this mean I can't to this in my zone?
However, I have seen a tree near where I live that is about 4 feet tall and looks like a tree with a "trunk" about 5" around.
I would love to be able to do this if possible in zone 5.
Does anyone know if it's possible?
Thanks,
Maureen
Maureen, I've never done this so can't answer your question. however when I googled budleia tree I got many hits. I didn't read all but I bet your answer would be somewhere in there. I mainly wanted validation that I wasn't totally nuts about wanting a buddleia tree, lol.
However, thinking about your question, I would think that in your area, you'd have to wait til it starts putting out green before you can do any pinching. I don't know at this point if I will pinch myself. I was thinking more along the lines of letting the top branches do their thing, and simply cutting the lower branches off. Again, this is just thinking.
I saw one in a catalog last year, it was soooo perfect and looked like the perfect lolipop. I bet that darned pic was photoshoped, lol.
Maureen, I don't know if it would work for you or not if it dies to the ground every year...in warmer zones they stick around from year to year, so I see many out here that have not been pruned and are the size of a tree (12 ft or so). So I'm not sure what you could do with yours, guess it depends on how much it grows in a season, but I think if you try too hard to get it shaped right you won't end up being able to enjoy the flowers.
good point. i guess top shaping would be a one time thing in the spring, otherwise, you'd cheat yourself of flowers with the constant pruning.
and if it dies to the ground, don't see how you can ever have a standard. sorry, I forget sometimes not everybody has mild winters like mine.
OH my...Ya'll got my attention! I love training things into topiarys and standards! (And here I am with a gazillion butterfly bushes in my g-house.) :>)
Nice link, vossner. Sure makes the Budleia look extra pretty, doesn't it!
Shoe.
I think it is a great idea but wanted to also point out the Buddleia used in that web example is the weeping type. I didn't know if you guys caught that. I don't necessarily have to cut them back here but I do. They don't seem to bloom as much on old wood as they do the newer growth and I also liked to keep them smaller in my butterfly garden.
Badseed beat me to it!
This is not your normal Buddleia. It is Buddleia alternifolia, which would be much easier to train into a standard than your basic davidii.
By the way mine is blooming right now. These are gorgeous, and fragrant.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~oliver/sgbuddleiaalternifolia.htm
thanks polly and chele. B. alternifolia is new to me. I will definitely try with my b davidii next year and will post pics to see what y'all think. Of course, I guess it is the butterflies that should have the last word, huh? lol
Badseed, B. davidii blooms ONLY on new wood.
Yes, but the old wood gets new growth and the bushes are quite large when not cut back. To my eyes, they look more ratty and the blooms are more spread out. I just prefer the smaller and more compact bushes.
Yes, but the old wood gets new growth and the bushes are quite large when not cut back. To my eyes, they look more ratty and the blooms are more spread out. I just prefer the smaller and more compact bushes.
Polly, does the weeping form root as easily? That has been on my want list forever!
Exactly, badseed. Without cutting back you get bigger bushes, but fewer flowers per unit of 'bush mass'.
Oh, yes, I definitely "limb up" or "tree up" just about everything including Buddleia! Please see pics. First one is my newest one, Black Knight, just about a year old, full of buds. What I do with the Buddleias, (and everything else it seems, since I have a small garden, no space!) I pick a main stem and tie it to a stake. When it gets to a decent height, may 3-4 feet, I pinch off the top and then cut off about a third of the stems from the bottom up. I don't like to take any more off so that the plant has something to keep it growing. Then I shorten the side branches to 3-4 nodes so that the plant is not too bottom heavy. Eventually, most of these branches will be trimmed off completely. Then, as the stems grow from the top 6-8 inches, I pinch, pinch, pinch each new growth back to a single leaf node. Then when the stems on either side grow out, I pinch those back to 2 leaf nodes, and continue to pinch everything back to 2 leaf nodes as it grows out. I then end up with a very tightly leafed bush. I stop pinching when the flowering season starts and do not pinch back until the blooms are done. Then, as each branch is done blooming, I cut it way back, and start all over again. This keeps the shrub very tight and increases the amount of blooming drastically. From time to time, the plant will start new grow on the trunk, and I just rub this off or clip it off, the maintain a bare trunk.
Here is an unnamed "limbed up" Buddleia that is about 4 years old and full of buds. Note that the brazilian gold vine next to it is also limbed up. I keep the trunks bare of new growth and let it go at the top to keep a cleaner look.
Another pic of my "treed up" plants, from left to right - lemon verbena, tagetes lemonii, African basil, and a bay tree (about 10 years old!)
gardenerme, OMG you really are a tree person! so glad yo posted here. On your buddleia, I assume yours don't completely die back?
also, in subsequent years, what do you do to maintain your buddleia trees?
do you think I could trim lower branches now? they are driving me crazy, neither butterflies not eye enjoy the flowers because they're just laying in the ground.
Sure, trim anything you want on this puppy. All you want to be aware of is that you may cut off some blooms or buds at this time of year, however, if your bush is healthy, it will be putting out a lot more blooms than you see right now. Go for it!
Sorry forgot to talk about your bush dying back. If it does this and then comes back every year, you can start over again every year, just pick your leader, eliminate all other branches, trim back side branches on leader until you get the height you want, then continue to pinch back for fullness or just let it go. Just be aware of the buds forming, as you can lose a lot of buds if you pinch back a branch with buds forming.
Badseed, yes they root as easily. The alternifolia also suckers, but not wildly, so you can get a few plants each year off the suckers. And talk about weeping, here's a new one to me that I really want. Polly
http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/Detail/00088.html
I couldn't stand it anymore so I trimmed them. I planted Nahno Blue and White Profusion together to give an illusion of a multicolored shrub. Monday I took 2-3 of the strongest leader branches and loosely tied them together. Then I removed all the remaining lower/little branches. I think is is a neater look.
vossner, it looks like a winner. I have always train my Buddleia alternifolia as a tree, but that is the spring blooming weeping kind. I love the one pollyk listed, that will have to go on the want list. Patti
thank you. I thought the one PollyK listed was pretty fancy too.
I had three butterfly bushes I gave a friend of mine. I put them all in a bag together, and by the time she planted them apparently they had grown together, and she didn't realize they were seperate bushes. So she planted them all together. They were Black Knight, Red Delight and White Profusion. Well, they have made the prettiest shrub. They all bloom at the same time, but at different heights. After about five years they are all still alive. I would have suspected the more vigorous Red Delight would have crowded the others out but it did not.
Vossner, maybe you could add a red one in there for a red, white and blue theme, although it sure does look nice as is!.
Polly
Polly, I would LOVE to do that!
This has been said before numerous times, but I will repeat for the newer gardeners. BB are great butterfly attractors. After planting mine, the appearance/increase of butterfly traffic in my landscape is nothing short of dramatic. It is so neat to be walking around and almost stumble in these beautiful creatures, flying all over the place. And to make things even better, BBs ar easy plants to grow and have a marvelous fragrange. No wonder butterflies love them.
I am in the market for a var. buddleia Harlequin and for Red Delight. I have not found these in my area, so if anybody is aware of a cheap place for them, PLMK. thanks.
Have you tried butterflybushes.com? Or Bluestone?
I'm getting such a kick out of your butterfly bush standard, Vossner. I'll bet the weeping version is really pretty as a standard.
vossner, I bought a small Harlequin from green mt transplants for 1.50 this spring. Its doing fine. But they have a 32 plug min. I'll see if I can get one started for you for next year this winter. I have a green house. But you better cross everything. Patti
I know this is a little late but I was waiting until I had a good bloom on my butterfly tree, Petite Indigo, to post. It took awhile to bloom since I pruned it back late. Unfortunately they are considered invasive in my area and even though I try to carefully deadhead it will either have to go or be potted so no seeds escape.
that is sooooo pretty!
I'd say go for it - they are such tough and vigorous plants I don't think you could do much harm. If it didn't work your "mistake" could easily be rectified next year!
Thanks Hart for that butterfly bush website. I visited there and they have a multitude of information. ;)
Lin
Sempervirens, just a second on praising that butterfly tree. it is lush and beautiful.
Reading through this thread from the begining as been fun. Now I am thinking that the standard would be bushier if it were conjoined trunks. I wouldn't weave them, because they would probably choke, but to grow three single main trunks to the desirable height, wrapping them loosely with garden tape till they got strong would give a triple 'point' at which the branching begins, hence triple the branches. Then some pruning/punching and wow! Would also help when you (kmeaning me) don't want to cover the yard in Buddleias, as I have at times, but want all the different flowers.
Peter
Thank you Peter and vossner for your compliments. It is an easy plant to grow in my area. The leaves remain silvery all winter adding another season of interest. The down side is it has become invasive having escaped cultivated garden space and has started turning up in wooded areas. I am thinking of replacing it with Joe- Pye Weed which also attracts butterflys. I'm going to try to pot this one up next spring so I can carefully monitor the seeding.
Joe Pye is great, but needs as close to full sun as you can find, not to flop.
I have Joe Pye in part shade, it is straight, but it is relatively new. I have noticed that it likes to be watered a lot! :0)
wanted to add: Love the butterfly bushes trained as standards! So you wouldn't weave them if you wanted the multicolored bush? And it wouldn't work at all if they had to be cut back in the winter? I do realize that you would have to start over, of course!
This message was edited Aug 1, 2006 9:57 PM