A few issues with propagation

First off.... Hello as this is my first post and I know it will not be my last. I have been mulling over what i need to ask help with after another unsucessful seed starting season.

Let me tell you what I have been using:
FOr the propagator I am using the Lee Vally Self-watering Propagator set ( pg . 23 in catalog)
It is basically a long tray with a capilary pad and 7 domed containers.
The first year I had it I used just potting soil and did pretty good with it, not great but good.
THe second year I used a soiless seed mixture and I either got mold or nothing and very few sprouts.
I kinda have a makeshift greenhous made of wood and plexie glass with lights on top
Now I was able to keep the temp in the greenhouse about 77 or so and the domes were alway covered with condensation. So I will assume that inside the dome it was a bit higher in temp.
I got about 8 of my toamtoe plant as well as only a few here and there of other plants.
my question are I think that the capillary system keeps it too wet??
do I need bottom heat ( but that will only heat the water... Help me get down the path too masatering my seed problem.. Joseph

If your greenhouse is that warm then you probably don't need bottom heat. Sounds to me like you probably have too much moisture around. Once the seedlings have germinated it's better to take the dome off to improve the chances of avoiding fungus. It sounds like you are also getting poor germination--that could be from too much moisture rotting the seeds before they have a chance to sprout, or it could be that you planted the seeds too deep in the soil (many seeds like to be right near the surface where they can be exposed to light). Some seeds also require chilling/cold treatment in order to germinate, so if you have some like that then that would cause problems too (your seed packets should give you directions on depth to plant and also whether cold treatment is necessary)

Have you tried reading through some of the old threads on this forum? Seed starting is a problem that comes up pretty often and if you read through some of the older threads you will probably learn a lot.

I have had simillar problems w/ other seed- rotting. I think it's too much moisture- I would think the cap mat would be a good idea- am guessing thiere is not standing water, that would be death to the seeds. Also not sure that you need the dome w/ temps as high as 77- the dome obviously keeps the soil more wet. Also, I am sure this isn't the issue, but worth a shot, is your seed current? I know you know that old seed can be a problem.
Hope between ecrane's info and my 1 1/2 cents worth, you got some help.

I think leaving the seed on top of the soil-unless its between .25 and .50 " big, is a big key to germinating if you are new to it. Mist once a day and cover with some sort of see thru top-either a clear dome or saran wrap. If you don't see condensation on the cover in the afternoon, then mist again, but you should if its in the sunlight, or grow lights.
Bottom heat becomes an issue in the winter.

Thanks for everyones help. I just pu a few left over Columbine seeds in the trays again. IT stays a good 80 to 85 in there , I left two with out the dome and two with too see if I can get a berrer understanding of the temp inside. I will admite that it is near a windoe and sometimes I forget to lower the shade and it might jump a bit in temp.. One of the seeds I did ok on last year was my white wisteria. I got a few nice ones from seed using potting soil but my cat made a snack on it. I have tried about a dozen other wistria seeds and all I get is theme turning too mush . .. Joseph

I planted some seeds from my evergreen wisteria and have had pretty good success- while not 100% I felt I did pretty well but noticed that they tended to take longer to germinate than alot of the seeds that I have planted. Some seeds, though not tomatoes generally, just take longer.

80-85F is too hot to germinate a lot of seeds. It is good for germinating peppers and tropicals. Other than that, the closer you get to 80F, the less germination you will get. Many seeds germination at room temperature, which is 65-70F. Columbines like to germinate at around 68F. I would definitely take that dome off and move the tray to cool room.

Joseph, I used to have some of the same issues with seed starting. Then I got really steadfast in germ warfare, lol. I bleached all pots, containers, tools and surfaces before starting. And I sterilized the potting soil. Even though they usually start out sterile, those bags often have been punctured and the sterility is comprimised. I bake it in a covered Dutch oven at 400 degrees for 2 hours. Then I use peroxide (1/2 cup per gallon of water) solution to soak my seeds in overnight before sowing and always use it to water and mist with. It was a bit of a pain, but I had no damping off after that and much better germination rate.
Good luck,
Neal

Well that does make lots of sense.

Zappa1, an excellent book on propagation is Making More Plants by Ken Druse. It's a little pricey but I can go to any plant that I want to propagate and it will tell me. seeds, cuttings, division. what time of year, what temp., etc. it's very specific. it has a great section on seeds. I started fern spores last fall and had much success following instructions from his book. lol hostajim1

Each type of seed has different requirements as far as water, light, temps and treatment. It depends alot on just what you are growing as to how you prepare. Some great advice already given here...too much water..too much water....it's the single worst thing you can do is have the mix too wet. If it feels wetter than a wrung out sponge, it's too wet. Tiny root systems cannot take in much water...and too wet mix will drop the oxygen content of the soil down to where germinating seedlings will smother.

Some seeds need light to germinate...some need total darkness...depends on the plant...check each plant you are wanting to grow as to the needs. If I'm not mistaken, columbine needs to be stratified..(chilled) to get good germination. Usually 3 weeks in your fridge will suffice...but each kind of plant is different. As suggested, invest in a good propagation book.

Sounds like it's too warm in your set-up...as stated above...room temp is best for most seeds.
too hot will kill the developing plant...and combined with too much moisture, promotes mold and fungus. I bleach all containers I use for seed starting, but don't sterilize my mix...I do use a soilless medium especially for starting seeds though...and I'm a long time seed starter who is careful with the other elements.

Bottom heat isn't really necessary except for a few plants...peppers like it, but I generally set the container on a shelf above a fleurescent light and it's plenty of warmth.

Take your domes off the minute plants start to germinate...or take them off if the domes mist up...any more mist than a light spot about the size of a quarter on the lid is too much.The domes are to hold in moisture...if there's too much, then you don't need the domes. Over watering is the biggest thing that cause folks to fail at seed starting.

This is an excellent thread! I started growing my own plants from seed this year and have had fantastic success with everything from lettuces, to herbs and sunflowers plus a few other annuals. I love it - my garage looks like a market garden. :) The one plant that will not germinate for me though is Nigella. Any tips? Out of 50 or so seeds only 2 have germinated. Waaaaa....

(Zappa - sorry to hijack your thread)

I think that the pots are just getting too much water from the system I am using. I took them off the tray after finding a better spot in the house. The soiless mix just got a white mold on it so I just left it with out light. A few days later they all spouted. SO I think it would be best to just spray to keep moist and them when they get bigger put them on the tray for a continuous supply of water, but ny then i would think they would need to go into something bigger then a 2 inch tray... Z

Here are some things I have tried successfully (Denver, < 10% humidity, 5800') under lights with much success:

1) I use the jiffy-pots that expand in water for any plant that will transplant in may or early june. After june, I recycle plastic cells (bleached and rinsed with hot water!) filled with 1 part vermiculite / 3 parts nursery seed starting medium.

2) jiffys and cell flats are set in containers of warm water so the medium is wet before seeds are applied.

3) don't plant more than 3 seeds per jiffy or cell, even if you anticipate low germination rates

4) jiffy pots are set into humidty chamber constructed from the clear plastic containers used to sell bulk salad greens and strawberries. Cell flats I may cover with flat pieces of plastic or plexiglass

5) everything is set under fluorescent lights with light element 2" above top of container, hours of light adjusted by needs of plant species. Most meadow or xeric plants do well with 12hours of light /day
6) from this point on, I only water by misting 3x a day with a light solution of water + kelp extract (though from discussion above I may try adding some peroxide as well)
7) gradually remove seedlings from humidity chambers after they have 2 sets of leaves. Keep lights no more than 2" above top of foliage

Even though it may appear that the cells or jiffy plugs are dry at the top, the seedlings do fine with 3 x misting per day.