Bluebirds are moving in!

About two months ago I bought several bluebird houses on ebay and put them up around the property. A friend said there would be no birds in my houses because the birds here had too much natural habitat. Much to my surprise, a pair is setting up housekeeping today! They picked the house on the Sat. dish post, closest to our house and within 10 feet of three doghouses! It's also one of the favored places for the dogs to play because of what was once a pile of cedar sawdust (the dogs scattered it for me).

This is a lousy photo, but I'm so excited I had to share asap!

Got my glasses to watch the birds. Not bluebirds.

4 paws, That is exciting news. I'm so glad you posted a picture because I just want to point a couple things out that might cause a problem. I know that if I see a set up like this and don't say anything and something happens, I'd feel awful. So, please forgive me for being a killjoy.

Firstly, you want the house away from the fence and the tree. Those are easy places for predators to jump from.

Second, birdhouses mounted on wooden poles or fence posts are also easy marks for predators. Cats, raccoons and snakes can easily climb that post and eat the adults, eggs and/or nestlings. You should mount the box on a slick metal pole with a baffle. One easy and inexpensive way to do this is to get a piece of metal electric conduit cut to the right length. You use pipe clamps and mount the box to the conduit. You also add a baffle which is also easy and inexpensive to make. I'll include a link below. You just use a sledge hammer to put the pole into the ground. The other thing to consider is that if you put a box near a tree, you are inviting house wrens who also prey on bluebird eggs and young nestlings as they compete for nesting sites.

Don't worry about putting them off to the house by changing the setup. Better they decide to move on to a safer location than to give up their lives. I have had this happen and can tell you that the guilt you feel is horrible. If you are to move the house onto the metal pole and move it slowly to a better location, there is a good chance that they will continue to nest there. Again, I know how excited you are and am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but better now than when you find a box full of dead babies.

Here is the information on making your own predator baffle: http://www.purplemartin.org/update/PredBaff.html

Here is another link with all sorts of information for you on being a good bluebird landlord: www.sialis.org

Good luck,

Von

Are these violet green swallows?
http://birdweb.org/birdweb/bird_details.aspx?id=323

I don't know much about birds, only that I enjoy them (except the Stellar Jays that eat at least as much dogfood as one of my 70# dogs everyday!).

They aren't shy, it seems.

Thanks, Von...I've already wondered about predators and was looking into a baffle for it. I'm glad you spoke up; I'd have done the same.

I'd originally followed guidelines for placement from a couple of sites, including this one:
http://www.bluebirdsforever.com/houses.html
and
http://www.laspilitas.com/bluebird.html

Both indicated fence posts and utility posts to be good.

Basically, however, if a nest box can't be near trees, there will be no nest boxes. :-(
Perhaps there is enough natural habitat for them.

This pair must be a little daft. They were teasing the dogs when I first noticed them. Why would they want to stay in such a busy area in the first place? (:->)

I've got conduit, metal posts, stovepipe...all hanging around somewhere.

Vonyon, is that you??

Terry, Yup that would be me. Caught..........

4 paws, I would at least get this on a slick metal pole. Don't believe what you read about fence posts. I have been posting on another forum for a few years now and have seen many heartsick landlords come to post their horror stories after they find out the hard way.

The thing is that if you want to keep the box near a tree, I'm not sure a baffle or a slick, metal pole will help as a cat or raccoon will not have to climb the pole. They will just be able to jump right onto the roof. I wouldn't risk it, but that's me.

I have no idea if those are violet green swallows. They look like either that or tree swallows to me. I know tree swallows are cavity nesters.

I'm guessing Tree Swallow, too. Looks like you need more rooms to rent out at your place! :-) Good luck!

Mark

Welcome to DG Von!

Well, likely the house will come down and probably not get re-established this year.

We have one cat - she doesn't spend much time around there because the dogs (I have ten currently) love to play in the cedar sawdust that's in the area, and their play is a little too rowdy for her. The branches of the dogwood that hang over the house are pretty flimsy. If my ten pound cat climbed out far enough to jump onto the roof, the branches would bend to the ground, I think. However, nothing comes in the yard (fenced acre) with all these dogs on duty. No raccoons spotted closeby, either. Snakes have so many baby mice to eat, I can't imagine that they'd risk exposure to the dogs to go up it (the dogs are fast -they'd get a snake!)

Now, if these birds normally nest in tree cavities, aren't they naturally at risk from the predators mentioned?

Yes but if all you are getting in your Bluebird nesting boxes is English House Sparrows, then really all you would be doing is perpetuating their species if you aren't comfortable removing that which will outcompete the Bluebirds for habitat. it's best to not create more HOSP housing. Their ability to reproduce is phenomenal which is part of the problem.

I'm pretty sure they are not house sparrows, but rather swallows, probably the tree swallows.
http://birdweb.org/birdweb/bird_details.aspx?value=search&id=322

Not House Sparrows for sure! They are Tree Swallows. Violet Green Swallows have the white chest feathers continue up from the neck and create a semi-circle around the eyes. If you Google Violet Green Swallows and click on images you can see this unmistakable field marking.

Mark

Hmm...a post I made is gone.
I'm sure they are not sparrows, Equilibrium. I've been reading the thread about them, too.

They are swallows, aren't they?

Odd...now the first post is there with the same photo I posted again...sorry, folks.

Those are swallows, and they are beautiful! I wish I could get them here.

My sparrow trap went back out today, I had to take it down a while due to Chipmunks and squirrels cleaning it out.

Maureen

Maureen, Try bread. My guess is that you are using seed? Chipmunks and squirrels love the seed.

4 Paws, you could be right, but I would worry about the fledglings that don't make it to the trees becoming dinner to one of the dogs. Sorry, I hate to be a killjoy, but it is so heartbreaking with you lose them. I know you will want to take the time to make a safe place for them. The TRES are usually great flyers when they fledge, so maybe you won't have a problem with them. I wouldn't risk the predator getting them either. You are right, these are cavity nesters and do nest in trees and perhaps become dinner to raccoons and snakes there. The idea there is that the cavity is better camoflaged in a tree than in a box out in the open. I guess the other thing is that most bluebirders are doing their best to increase the numbers. So, to avoid putting boxes in a spot that may be in danger is just what people do. Perhaps in the wild, their infant mortality is higher. No way to know I suppose.

Thanks all for the welcomes!

Well dang! I was going to use seed. Bought some cheap stuff at Wally World. But I've got a ton of squirrels. Drats!

Terry

Thanks von, as I said, I'll take care of them.

I took down the nest box yesterday, and the swallows were visibly upset when they returned to find it gone. I really didn't know where I could put it for them that met all the safety criteria. They were still coming around this morning, looking for the box. Mr. Swallow came into my dog free zone, sat on a wire and watched me digging around. We conversed (he made his sound). I put the box on a metal fence post in the artichoke patch in my dog free zone. We'll see if they like it.

4paws, That must have been so hard for you! But I think you did the right thing. How lucky you are to be able to grow artichokes! I would imagine that the birds will take to the box, but keep us posted!

An update.
No one moved into the moved box. However, a family is living in another nest box in an even better location for me to observe from a distance, though the adults don't seem to mind me or the dogs around much. Yesterday the adults returned with beakloads of bugs when I was just a couple of feet a way.

I think I've followed all the rules, the box is on a metal post with no overhanging trees, etc. I can hear the babies, but won't open the box to see them. The parents are doing a great job of keeping mosquitoes down around the house, as well.

How long does it take from hatching to learning to fly?

Way to go relocating the nest box and placing it on a metal pole. Good job!

Sorry I never bookmarked this thread. I had no idea it was still getting posts.

It hasn't been getting any posts, but now there's lots of action around one of the nest boxes, so I thought I'd update. :-) I want to make sure the babies are safe, so I made them a funky perch a few feet from the box with different levels of "branches" yesterday. They're attached to a metal post, too. Dad really seems to like it.

I know it truly doesn't matter which - but am curious: do you know which bird family is occuying the 'other' nest box; if it's more of the swallows or some blue birds -?-

Mite there be any chance you could manage to fetch some pitters to share with us, soon -?- (hint, hint)

Am really tickled for ya .. and, that this batch is @ a better observing distance for you too!

- Magpye

4paws,

Why not take a look??? When do you think that they hatched? If they are less than two weeks old look ASAP! I PROMISE that it will not bother the adults (too much). You may find parasites, or a dead young that you can remove from the nest if you check them. If you don't check they may be worse off, besides it's fun and interesting! Take your camera! I check my Bluebirds, Tree Swallows, Chickadees, Purple Martins . . . at least every week. If you think that they are more than two weeks old let them be. They are not used to nest checks and at that age they could fledge prematurely. About three weeks from hatch is when mine go.

Mark

They are tree swallows, Magpye, same as those who were moving into the first nest box, but not the same pair, because the two boxes were becoming occupied simultaneously. I don't have any house sparrows in any nest boxes (only one of four is occupied, I took the other three down for now), nor in any eaves of the house (too much action with working on the place for the last two years), or other buildings that I know of, though there are parts of the woodshed roof I don't see often. I won't let HOSP nest if I can help it, in order to avoid having to dispatch babies.

The young swallows are probably about 2 weeks old -I first heard them June 5th when I was pulling weeds in my 2nd year blueberries nearby. My presence doesn't seem to bother the adults at all, and I can go near the box and watch them without getting them worked up. We watch each other. :-) I try to respect their space.

For me, stepping in and helping the birds do what they do very well, naturally,seems to be overstepping my boundaries with the nature of things, human hubris, perhaps? If there is a dead chick, wouldn't the parents take care of it? What am I to do about parasites? Why should they have them? They started with a clean environment (leastways, the box). To "help" when they are not having trouble (there are many tree swallows, I think, and they are, happily, thriving here :-) feels like ...I can't come up with the words at the moment...paternalistic. (Maybe that's not the word, but how should I know better than they how they should run their house, and if their offspring are not strong and survive, maybe there was some trait about that pair that shouldn't be carried on....

(That could open a whole 'nother can of worms...:-))

Now, that's not to say I'm not interested in what's going on in there, but I'm in no hurry. Maybe the next family. I mainly wanted good birds to have good homes around my house and eat good bugs while we amuse each other with our antics. Also, if they were in trouble due to something humans did, I'd step in. But should wildlife observers/caretakers interfere when nature takes its course, ie. when a predator captures its prey? Or when lemmings do their lemming jump? Or when a parent is killed (by something else in nature) and the offspring is abandoned?

Mark, it sounds like you are a bird enthusiast extraordinaire, and I am glad for your input. Please keep sharing your knowledge!

Magpye, I hope to get photos. I would love to get Dad with a mouthful of bugs on the funky practice perch I made for the little ones. He almost seems to be showing off how many he crammed into his little beak.

The observing is better 'cause I can sit out on the deck under my shade cloth and watch them and look at the view...it's very nice, especially since my swallows have taken care of 90% of our back yard mosquitoes.

We have some barn swallows that 'visit' at certain times of the year. The visits seems to correlate to the flying insects: when there's a vast # or a particular 'variety' of flying bugs that come & hang around the security lights. During the early morning and/or late evening .. we'll spot a half dozen of the swallows culling the swarms. Evidently, they fetch their fill of 'em .. then, leave.

Have some bats that come to do the same thing .. but at different times of the year than that of the swallows.

'Round here .. the term has become a form of measurement - a 'beaker' full for the mommas & daddys toting their quarry to the babies!

Will be checkin' in ever so often, and hopin' for some views shared .. thru some pitter posts, soon!

Enjoy !!

- Magpye

A beakerful...good!

There is a bat house here, but no residents. From what I read, it isn't well situated. Bat habitat is on my list of things to do.... Along with "pitters" of critters. I've got to get better shots of the dogs for their adoption bios. I don't like admitting it, but 12 has occasionally put me teetering on the edge of sanity (undecided if I'm already insane! lol) Anyway, finally went to town and stocked up on batteries.

4paws i've been following your thread. just wanted to share a bit. put up first bliebird houses this year. sparrows kicked them out. sparrows raised their young. left. bluebirds moved back in. yesterday no day before i saw parents feeding young. yesterday i looked out to the one birdbath and 2 young bluebirds were taking a bath. oh it was fun to watch!!!

Great, ves522! Thanks for sharing!
I love watching them splash around, too, but they're not terribly interested in my birdbath. There are other sources for water here, so I'm not worried.

4paws,

Na, I just like birds. After you poke around and watch their habits you learn a few things along the way. I’m still learning. A new clutch of Bluebird eggs surprised me yesterday.

You can put up a brand new bird house and end up with parasites. In the south the problem is mainly mites, although I have had huge mite infestations here in Michigan. They can number in the thousands in a single bird house. The adult birds bring them in and they multiply quickly. In the north the problem is usually blow fly larvae. Adult blow flies lay eggs in bird nests with young. The larva feed on the blood of the young birds, as mites do. A high concentration of either can kill or weaken young birds. Sometimes adult birds will remove dead young. I lost three out of four young Tree Swallows to hypothermia one year. I was out of town for a long weekend and a storm soaked the nest. I removed the three dead young. Two young Purple Martins died at the colony I monitor this year. Both were removed from the compartments by the adults. The decision to do nest checks or not is yours, of course. I check nests to help raise healthy young and because it’s interesting. All of my Bluebirds had blow fly in their nests this year. Blow fly larvae feed on the young at night and then burrow down into the nest material during the day. Many end up all the way to the floor of the nest box. I simply slide my hand under the nest, pick it up and “sweep” out the larvae each nest check. This doesn’t get every one, but reduces the parasite load enough to help the young to be strong when they fledge. Most nests have at least one “dud” egg in every clutch. Removing dud eggs reduces the chance of them breaking and fouling the nest.

If I am providing artificial housing for wild birds and I know how to help them have healthy young at fledging time it is hard for me to just let things be. Nature takes its course in natural cavities. Perhaps in some natural cavities there are beneficial insects that prey upon mites and blow fly larvae before the parasite load becomes too great for the young to survive. Perhaps only a percentage of nests in natural cavities fledge any birds. This is probably the case. Perhaps I’m a bird geek and get my jollies out of how many nests from each species I have per year. I have to check my nest boxes because I have House Sparrow problems. When they build a nest I discard the eggs and trap at least the female. I try to trap the male, as well, but they are harder to trap. I like to know what percentage of eggs that are laid actually hatch. I like to know how many of the young that hatch actually fledge. This year my Martins laid 88 eggs. 72 eggs hatched and I lost two young at last count. If I don’t find any dead birds in compartments this weekend I assume that 70 will have fledged. Since the Purple Martin is listed as a “species of special concern” in Michigan good record keeping at each colony helps us to determine the colony success and status. We still have the old school that just put up a nest box for Purple Martins and hope for the best each year. Some lose their colonies, yet others survive. I was thrilled to find a clutch of eight Black-Capped Chickadee eggs in one of my boxes this year. Seven hatched and seven fledged.

Enjoy your birds. I just wanted you to know that checking a nest isn’t much of a problem for the adults. They may not be pleased about it, but they get over it very quickly. Usually as soon as you close up the box and get a few yards away from the box an adult will check it out. I wonder if they can count and are making sure that I didn’t walk away with one of the kids. :-)

Wow! You are a bird-angel, Stelco... I can't imagine keeping up on so many as you do - thanks for doing it! DG is a great place to find experts to get information on most anything!

Someday perhaps I'll feel the need to get more involved in the birds' lives, but for now, I'm pleased that they are here. Now that I know it won't bother them to watch more closely, chances are I'll arrange the nest box so I can access it more easily for the next family. The way it's placed now, I'll probably slide down the hill with it if I were to open it...lol

Perhaps I sounded uncaring, which I'm not. I've got enough on my plate rescuing the stray dogs...I'm kind of overwhelmed by them at the moment, and the work that this place needs prior to next winter, and the gardening/landscaping that I need to do to stay sane....

Bird geek... funny!!!

Nice to meet you all. Looks like I'm toast here. If they don't delete this e-mail is fishlkmich@yahoo.com and my website is www.michiganmartins.com

It's been fun. Glad to be some help. I asked that Equil be refunded my membership dues. It would only be fair.

Love, life and happiness!

Mark

???
Toast?
Why?
I'm confused!

4paws, I'm not sure about the details, but unfortunately there have been some hard feelings among some forum members over issues related to protecting native species of birds from non-native species. It's a very tough issue that generated much conversation on several threads that were previously located in the Garden Foes forum. These threads have now been removed.

I'm very sorry that these conversations have lead to the loss of any Dave's Garden members. I've always felt I learned the most when I had a wide range of experiences and opinions to draw from.
Sheri

(edited to remove a link to a thread that has since been removed.)


This message was edited Jul 18, 2006 11:29 AM

This message was edited Jul 18, 2006 4:49 PM

Whew! Thanks for the info, oldmudhouse.
I'm glad to see that Mark is not toast!
And grateful for folks like him and Equilibrium on DG. I've learned a lot. Can't do something with everything I've learned, but it's there and influences what I do do.

This message was edited Jul 18, 2006 5:07 PM

oldmudhouse, the thread for which you provided a link has been removed from "Garden Foes"--along with others... and I'm not understanding why they're being removed after they were moved. I'm asking questions but not receiving answers.