Oh no! Could Someone Please Come And Remove This?

Scutler for 3 months you can go barefoot here......of course if you try it in the winter you may need to have some toes (or a foot or two removed). You may also want to stock up on some *slightly* warmer winter apparel (make sure it reads good down to -40 F). Mind you this past winter it rained more than it snowed. We had 3 days of -52 F (windchill included), 13 days at -20F and the rest was around +32 F (more often just above freezing than below). The Great White North isn't going to be very white if this keeps up (but still cold enough to keep Mr. Copperhead from moving up here :).

re explosion you'd only have ~45 days where it *might* happen here. Last summer we had 21 days where we were over 100 F.

Good lord! You get hotter than we do! And Scutler, you'll have two seasons of explosions. Heat in the summer, and freeze in the winter. But no snakes. Just moose. Or meese.

Wow, lily, that is quite a temperature range: -52 to 100F. Now when you say the rest of the winter days were +32F (I don't usually have to include the sign), is that the high? We don't even make it down to +20F for the LOW! 27-28F is about as low as we go; even then the daytime high is likely to be in the 60'sF.

Pretty incredible how much space you guys have (land vs people). I have windows that I can't open because they look directly into the neighbors house. Bet you don't have that problem, either.

I freeze up solid - go into hibernation - when it gets down to about 40F, that's +40.
I had no idea it got up to 100F there, though. I'm still impressed at that temp range. I bet it is BEAUTIFUL there! And no snakes! Do you have any other, possibly more deadly, creatures that make the snake look like a kittycat?

Scutler/Ceejay we had two Moose in town the other day......they used to be rare here but have been showing up in greater numbers lately. Mind you we do have a cougar that dens in our valley (she's often been sighted in our city park but over the past 5 years that she's been sighted we haven't lost any cats/dogs/people) to her.

This was our temp on June 8th of last year.......BTW the humidity came up from Texas!!!!

Bears maybe?

I'm like you Scutler, probably a little worse. Me and my electric blanket and flannel sheets are married. One of the reasons (honestly) I got a greenhouse was so I could sweat in winter.

X

Oh, no, not meese! I saw a piece on the news about some town where the moose were wandering into town and just attacking people, unprovoked. Like some woman was just walking across the street, and apparently the moose didn't like the way she looked at him so he charged her and knocked her down. I was thinking, "boy do I feel like a wuss for complaining about those white tail deer eating my roses at night".

Most definitely an all time winter high Sculter (the +32F). We used to have 2 - 3 months of -20F, one month of -30 (and a week or two of -40 and lower). But the last 15 winters (with three exceptions) have been breaking all records (for warmest on record).

Bears and wolves are further north of here (usually seen around the Battlefords .... about a 5 hour drive north). I've never seen the cougar here nor the moose (other than in the newspaper).

I'm right with you, X. If it's like 50F, I feel like I have to stay in bed - too cold for me out there 'today'.

Cougar are native to our area but, basically, we stole all of their habitat long ago. Have to go to Charlestown Landing to visit them. Beautiful animals, but I don't think I'd like to have one living in that forest behind my house!

wow, lily, BIG change in your temps! Really shows us how our weather is changing. It hasn't changed that much here - yet.

I guess we tend to stay with the nasties we know. ;)

BTW Moose Jaw comes from the Cree word moosgaw which means "warm breezes" ;)....we are situated in a valley where the Cree would winter (it gets some of the remnants of Calgary's winter chinooks). The white settlers heard the name and changed it slightly.

They said the north would see it first (Polar Bears will be gone in 25 years.....a few years ago they thought it would take a hundred years).

The cougar has been sighted often but shows no interest in people. There is lots of deer for her to hunt and so far (knock on wood) she's not been a problem.

Ok, this just in from a friend. This, BTW, for those familiar with the Mr T story is the friend who thought up the solution to the titmouse problem.

Here are some of his ideas for the snake. I must say he is very creative. I'm going to stick with deer netting and professional snake removers but these are devious:

(1)Use a cage to catch a rat. Leave the rat in the cage until the snake finds it, enters the cage, and eats it. Then the snake will also be stuck.

(2)Catch or buy a rat. Tie a string securely around it and leave it tethered at the back door until the snake eats it. Then you have the snake caught as well.

SCUT,
The snake cant bit when his mouth if full of rat, heheh. You need to turn in yoru PETA card, get a sharpened shovel, and drop it strongly in a downward direction just behind the snakes eyes.

You should be happy with 50F temps. Copper dont like it THAT COLD, and likely wont be out and about.

Best Regards;
bluelytes

Ingenious!
My daughter breeds exotic birds to sell' and she has converted her barn into a bird breeding facility. Unfortunately, one night a snake got into the barn through an opening my daughter didn't know about. It then proceeded to enter one of the cages and eat one of her birds. She found it there the next morning, lying on the floor of the cage, unable to get back out because of the bulge. Dead snake. (And hysterical daughter, I might add...)

CEE,
Hysterical laughing?? at the irony of it??

Best;
bluelytes

Well, blue, you are right about that temperature issue. I do a lot of garden maintenance in the winter and it's wonderful not to have to worry so much about where I step!

I'm pretty sure PETA would have me drawn and quartered for puttng the rat in jeapardy. lol.

I can only use the shovel if they make one with a 10' handle! That's my limit for how close I will get intentionally. I used to see my grandmother chase them down with a hoe and even an axe. I was impressed at her nerve. If a pit viper is going in the other direction, I'm not following him!

Oddly enough, PETA doesn't say much about Norway Rats. Imagine that. Zap em! It's quick and efficient.

I love your suggestion about the Zapper for the rats. I absolutely plan to get one of those and start zapping them ASAP. Great idea.

Ok, X, I called that number you gave me for the snake removal folks. They may have 24-hr answering, but they can't come for the snake until Monday! Now I did not figure it would be cheap to get someone to drive over here and traipse around in the vinca in search of a pit viper, but here's the deal: They get $200 the 1st hr and $125 for every consecutive hour thereafter to LOOK for the snake, regardless of whether or not they find it. Whew! For that price, I could just hire an attorney to get the snake evicted and/or sue him for pain and suffering if he bites me! But, nonetheless, I am awaiting their call - as, apparently, is my dog. It seems there are some deeds he would rather not do in the front yard. Good dog.

Holy Guacamoley! Ok .. Plan B. See if you can find a store that specializes in reptiles or a herpetoligist at the University .. do the ditzy scared act and perhaps you can get someone to come out and rescue you. Plan C. Just talked to my snakey friend in Orlando, he says put some leather shoes on, long pants, get a shovel and chop it's head off. Let it sit for a few hours then dig a hole and bury it. Plan D. Have your property declared as a Wildlife Conservation area for Demented Wildlife then call the Animal Planet Channel.

X

I say a shovel is CHEAPER!!

Best;
bluelytes

bluelytes, your offer to ride over here if I pay airfare is starting to look like a better deal.

I'm still looking for that shovel with the 10ft handle. lol

Ok, here's the current scoop.

A guy from the removal service called me back. He says the earliest he can get here is 5PM on Monday at which time he'll check my house for opening through which animals may gain entry, and if he sees any animals while he's here he'll take them away. To which I responded that I don't want him to remove any animals (would hate to get my friendly racoon carted off), I want him to get the SNAKE. He then indicated that he'll look for the snake until either he finds it or I run out of money which ever comes first. He's going to call me back on Monday.

Then I contacted a guy I found on www.envenomated.com. Essentially, they have a contact list of people in various areas of the SE US who are willing to come out and rescue or relocate reptiles. The guy I spoke with lives in the area. He said that these snakes are transient, and he is highly doubtful that the snake is "living" in my yard. He thinks the snake is very likely living in the forest/wet lands behind my house, and then coming to visit periodically - for a meal. He gave me his cell phone # to call if/when I see the snake again. Then he said he would come for the snake. He indicated that in his opinion I should be able to go about my normal activities outside, but be careful and watchful about where I step and where I put my hands in the mean time. Overall, I found this guy to be the more credible by far.

Upon seeing the photo (link I emailed him), he concurred with your ID that it is a copperhead.

I think I'm going with the latter suggestion (along with maybe some netting, thanks, lily). Am on my way out there now to brave the backyard. If I don't return by late evening, someone call 911. (kidding, ok) Still interested to hear your thoughts on this strategy. And, X, I still very, very much appreciate the tip and phone number. It saved me a lot of time searching for such a service. And I will try to keep my shovel handy just in case.

I lived on the Albemarle Sound North of you Scutler and there were all the critters you mentioned and wild bears too.
I found that when I walked the wilderness that if I stomped as I walked, I would notice snakes just slithering away from me.
And yes if there is one it's mate is usually close by.
Also used mothballs to discourage them from my gardens. It doesn't need to look like a hail storm though.
Hope this helps.
Carolina Gypsey, so to speak, LOL
Sidney

Just remember that snakes don't have ears. They won't hear you screaming. So don't bother. LOL They feel vibrations through their body and their jaw when it is resting on the ground. Try not to touch the ground. They detect heat through those pits behind their nostrils, which is how they track down their prey. You might sit in the fridge for awhile to cool down before you go out. Their eye sight is fixed. IOW, they don't see very well, only for short distances - basically they detect motion beyond that. Try not to move. And they don't smell - those nostrils are for breathing. So wear perfume if you want to...
Just my 2 cents worth.....
Today I was cleaning up the canna flowers - pulling out the old brown parts, leaving the pretty part - just to make them look nicer. And there - there was a garden snake, about 2' long (DH concurs), climbing the cannas, which are about 6' tall. He was just kind of hanging there at eye level when I first saw him, about a foot away. I stood still, and when he felt safe again, he started slithering throught the canna flowers, probably looking for a frog or lizard. I ran for my camera, but he had gone to the ground by then, according to DH, who stood guard. I must say, this thread has me a little squeamish. Even put on shoes before I went out to work in the garden.

Scutler, see if this might be something you could use.
Pati

http://www.pestproducts.com/snakeinfo.htm

Sidney, I know what you mean. Well, at least about everything but the bears, that is. : ) I've lived in snake territory all of my life. I've seen many snakes, including more than a few venomous types, but have never been harmed. I'm sure that I have been around far more snakes than I've actually seen. Like you, I have always counted on them to move on when they detect my presence. I try to be mindful of what I'm doing and careful about where I put my hands and feet. Like you, I try to give them ample warning ahead of my advancements.

What really upset me most about this snake was the fact that he did not "slither away" when the dog walked over him, or when I appeared in the door in front of him, or even when I poked/shoved him with a stick. His refusal to leave when prompted ruined my whole theory. Even when the dog walked back past him, he only moved over a few inches where he was still visible amidst the vinca. Then when I tried to maneuver the pruner in place, he slithered lazily away.

The 2nd guy I spoke with today, the one from the envenomated web site, also indicated that if the snake was sunning himself, we may have caught him "napping" and groggy. Some people have suggested that based on the cloudy look of his eyes, he may have been shedding which would have rendered him relatively blind and also lethargic.

I'm trying to regain my "grip" and my belief that the snakes aren't really out to get me. Today I did some yard work with power tools in the area around where I'd seen him. Trying to "get back on the horse"...and clean up the area so that he'll feel less comfortable there in the future.

CJ, lol, ok I'll try to keep perfectly still while gardening without touching the ground AND keep my body temp low in the sweltering summer heat and humidity. no problem.

Talk about jumpy, I freaked out and ran away today when I heard a bee buzzing. I was like, "ahhh! a rattle snake!" Well, I've never actually heard a rattle snake so...
Anyhow, I'm even jumpy indoors!

Pati, thanks for the info/link. I was tempted to order some, but tonyjr said that it looses effectiveness when wet. Here, between afternoon showers, thunderstorms, sprinklers, and the incredible humidity, that means that it would probably work for about 2 days. The cost was around $20 or so to cover 200 linear ft. If it would last for a while that wouldn't be so bad, but if water inactivates it, it's pretty much doomed here. I'm still thinking about it though. I might try one or two applications while I'm using the Zapper to get rid of the snake's meal ticket.

SCUT,
Someone can correct me if I am WRONG, which if LIKELY, but I dont think copperheads HAVE rattles, so you are wasting your time listening for a "rattle". I suggest you put on LOTS of weight, so he cant swallow you whole, then he is more likely to leave you alone!!

Best;
bluelytes

bluelytes, LOL, A round of chocolates, chips, and pastries for everyone, please!

"no" to rattles on copperheads, but now that I've become temporarily hypersensitive to venemous snakes, just because I have a copperhead in the yard doesn't mean I don't have a diamond back or 2 as well : )

So is it your theory that the reason the snake didn't leave is that he was sizing me up for lunch? Hmm, well, I'll get to work on that 'eating more' task right away!

contrary to popular belief, you can hear a rattling sound come from a copperhead, it's just not rattles making the noise. they vibrate their tails the same way a rattlesnake does but the noise comes from the leaves it's usually laying in. i speak from personal experience on this one. i could have sworn it was a rattler at the time!

copperheads, more so than other snakes in mho, seem to gravitate to warm concrete in the sunset and after dark hours. they would often be stretched out on pavement on a cool night and would frequently come up onto the patio towards evening to warm themselves. they are not particularly aggressive, but they are not skittish either and i have seen them come onto a patio with several people sitting there at the time (though not for long (the people)) lol just be careful and mindful of steps, patios, walkways, etc. when you are moving about. edited for spelling! there are snake tales and tails!

This message was edited May 28, 2006 2:13 PM

I, too, have heard a "rattle " from the copperhead-I "saw" the rattle-he was hitting his tail against the wood. While they are not as aggressive as rattlesnakes, they don;t back off either. I don't know about the territorial part, but I think they do find an area that they like and stay there. Last summer, my son saw one-he had flipped over a pallet-he ws moving them for me, and there was the copperhead-who only moved away because my son (youngest-17) took a stab with the shovel and missed him-hit the pallet instead. My older son ( the one who prefers an axe to kill them-freaks me out because the axe has a much shorter handle) came back to the same spot the next day and there was the snake-sunning itself. He got him then. I think they do like an area and stay there, so I would be looking for him in the sun in the same area.
On the other hand, scutler-if you have looked in the obvious open spaces in your backyard for the snake the past few days and have not seen him, then maybe he has moved on. Have you gone out there when the sun is up and looked for him sunning himself? You have to at least do that! Throw the netting on him and then kill him! The great white hunter/huntress!!

I have to say-I am a bit freaked out about them right now after reading all this! I am reclaiming this perennial garden that I have not been in for 2 yrs and I am out there pulling weeds and thinking about this thread. All the memories of having one so close to my hand are coming back!! I have the cat and the dog out there with me to "scout" the area...but I keep expecting to see one. They really creep me out and scare the heck out of me too!!

Reading all this makes me grateful for the slugs and slime molds of the PNW....even the lowly garter snake is a non-threatening entity. There was a time during my teaching career when we had a 12 ft boa constrictor as part of the classroom setting - but constrictors are one thing, copperheads another. Best wishes in reclaiming your turf!

Vicki

Scutler,

You poor dear - I would be petrified. That is the best shot of a copperhead's head that I have ever seen. EWWWWWW!!!

Brenda

tracks and lily, the personal insites you provide are priceless. It is one thing to read about how the creature should act and yet another to hear from someone who can report first hand on how it "does" act.

The "envenomated" guy told me that copperheads often create a sort of false rattle with their tails. To hear two personal "testimonials" to the correctness of that info also helps to bolster the credibility of that guy - let's call him envenomated snake guy, ESG, for brevity.

ESG didn't say that the snake was gone and would not be back. He just said that the snake probably does not live 24/7 in my yard, that he most likely resides in the wet lands beyond my back fence and commutes to my yard for "work". He said to be careful and keep and I out for the snake, and call his cell if I see it again - that way he can come for it when he knows it will be here.

I am being SUPER careful to look and look again before stepping out onto the patio, and am on guard every step thereafter. BTW, the CH was not actually on the concrete when I found him. I have a large astroturf type rug with thick backing in that spot. Most of his body was in the vinca beside the patio.His head and neck were on the rug - in the photos it shows up as a bright teal color.

I think it is good that we are on guard and thus careful, especially about walking through tall grass or weeds or plants. Here are a few tips that I have learned that might help you as well:

snakes are generally reluctant to waste venom on people; they need it for prey and predators.

when they do strike, they often release little or no venom. this is called a "dry" bite and is intended to bluff or scare you away while saving the valuable venom.

because of all of the above and the possibility of a near miss in which the fangs strike a glancing blow, are deflected by bone, etc. even things like shoes, socks, (boots if you have them), long pants, and gloves can make a big difference if you are "hit". They may help to deflect the fangs. even a small deflection can lessen the severity of the bite and the amount of venom received. I'm being careful to wear my heavy, oversized gloves while weeding.

With the snakes listed for my area, even if you are envenomated, the chance of survival is better than 50% even without treatment. That surprised me. I thought it was a death sentence without antivenon.

So, I'm being careful. In fact, yesterday when I did some yardwork I used one of those 3ft "reach extenders" to pick up items that were in or near tall grass or other vegetation. Yesterday, I used the gas powered trimmer (with gator head attached) to wack down the vinca in and around the spot where I saw him, so I know he is not THERE anymore. And, yes, I have walked around several times in sun, even took flower photos while I was out there. No sign of him.

I figure he will be back, but I'm being careful. I feel better knowing I have someone to call when I see him again. At least I have a plan now.

Also, from what I've learned copperheads are fairly non-aggressive, least likely to strike of all of the venomous snakes in our area, AND apparently least venomous. One source indicated that deaths from this snake practically unheard of.

plantnutz, thanks for the compliment on my photo. I can tell you how many people have said "I can't believe you took a picture of him" as in "instead of running". Well, I had to stay to protect my puppy, and I had the camera so...

About being petrified, my 1st reaction was to sell the house and move - to Alaska or SK. Then when I calmed down, I realized that was overkill - figured I'd just have a crew come in and rip out the 2000 plants and bulbs that I worked so hard to plant and care for for 5 years and replace the whole garden with a nice flat, snake- resistant, lawn! lol. Over the next few days, I considered "closing up" the backyard altogether. I mean, it's not like it's a necessary element. I could live in the front yard.

Other ideas considered: buying a dozen or so cats to populate the backyard, buying a very, large outside dog, packing heat while gardening, investing in snake bite boots (which would be handly while working in the garden at temps pushing 100F), putting a border of netting around house and perimiter of garden (still considering this one), hiring someone else to do my gardening, various chemical deterrents. In short I have seriously considered everything short of nuking the backyard - hmm now there's an idea...

Me, paranoid? No way! (she says while tiptoeing around the garden, looking 3 times before each step, wearing boots, long, heavy pants, and heavy gloves to work in 90F plus weather, gun and holster draped on her hip, dragging around a shovel, hoe, axe, and pole pruner, using an extended reach tool to pull the cover off the mower from 3ft away, tossing moth balls and deer netting everywhere, all while enjoying the opportunity to commune with nature and destress from the riggors of a hectic day at the office!)

glad to be of help. the ch i was referring to (tail rattling episode) was hidden in some dead leaves right next to my front door when i lived in arkansas. i hollered until my neighbor came over and he killed it. it was the largest ch i have ever seen, 5.5'. usually they are so short and fat. this guy was tall and fat. i get creeped out just thinking about him. that was in 1977 when i was a wanna-be-hippie, living off the land. lol

Scutler, you have overlooked a sure thing. Remember Rudyard Kipling? Remember the Mongoose? If it could take out the Cobras your Copperhead should be no problem!

Besides, they are soooo cute! There is a colony on St John's VI that come out every night to check out what people have left at the bath houses. They don't have any snakes there either!
Pati